Science says: never get rid of AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the posts on these last few pages are from, at most, two people who are spewing junk about something they know little to nothing about. Perhaps they harbor a grudge against FCPS because their special little snowflakes were denied entry into AAP? Who knows...

There's only one way into AAP: the selection committee. The committee allows parents/guardians to appeal an initial rejection with additional work samples and evidence. Sometimes the committee grants an acceptance on appeal if the additional work samples and evidence give a fuller picture of the student's capabilities. This is especially true for students initially viewed to be on the fence between AAP and general education.

This process is not a secret. It also shouldn't be interpreted that kids who are accepted into AAP on appeal are somehow inferior to those kids who were granted an initial acceptance into the program. The selection committee doesn't lower its standards.

But they do accept WISC scores from private psychologists.

Shhh, we're supposed to keep this quiet!

It is on the County’s web page, it is public knowledge.

It's also public knowledge that very few professionals are going to risk their careers/reputations/licenses for a handful of exaggerated WISC scores. But that won't stop the "it's all a sham, you pay your way in!" person (or people, hard to tell) from continuing to parrot their nonsense. I suspect at this point they're just trolling for the lulz or whatever.

LOL, you're kidding, right? Spending $5k gets you the diagnosis of choice for giftedness. This isn't prescribing meds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the posts on these last few pages are from, at most, two people who are spewing junk about something they know little to nothing about. Perhaps they harbor a grudge against FCPS because their special little snowflakes were denied entry into AAP? Who knows...

There's only one way into AAP: the selection committee. The committee allows parents/guardians to appeal an initial rejection with additional work samples and evidence. Sometimes the committee grants an acceptance on appeal if the additional work samples and evidence give a fuller picture of the student's capabilities. This is especially true for students initially viewed to be on the fence between AAP and general education.

This process is not a secret. It also shouldn't be interpreted that kids who are accepted into AAP on appeal are somehow inferior to those kids who were granted an initial acceptance into the program. The selection committee doesn't lower its standards.

But they do accept WISC scores from private psychologists.

Shhh, we're supposed to keep this quiet!

It is on the County’s web page, it is public knowledge.

It's also public knowledge that very few professionals are going to risk their careers/reputations/licenses for a handful of exaggerated WISC scores. But that won't stop the "it's all a sham, you pay your way in!" person (or people, hard to tell) from continuing to parrot their nonsense. I suspect at this point they're just trolling for the lulz or whatever.

LOL, you're kidding, right? Spending $5k gets you the diagnosis of choice for giftedness. This isn't prescribing meds.

There are professional standards that surround the use of those tests. A Doctor who is selling a result is violating the established professional standards and will be sanctioned. It is unethical behavior.

Either you are arguing that people who are so invested in getting into AAP are aware of specific Doctors they can go to in order to get a WiSC result that will help their child be accepted into AAP, either on the first round or on appeal, meaning that there is a paper trail leading back to a specific Doctor or practice that FCPS could easily expose (correlating NNAT and CogAT scores that are not in line with the WiSC scores back to a specific Doctor or practice), which would lead to sanctions. And any Doctor who has that type of a practice is probably charging more then $5,000 for the result.

Or parents are willing to move from Doctor to Doctor until they get the WiSC result that they want and that they are willing to pay more then $5,000 in search of a magical WiSC score.

All of that on top of the evidence that the WiSC scores have little impact on the decision, as evidenced by the small percentage of WiSC scores that are submitted and the small number of kids accepted into AAP on Appeal. Not to mention that FCPS flat out tells parents to use GMU because FCPS trusts GMU's results and that they will not trust scores from other providers.

Essentially, your argument is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

GMU is booked solid in the interval between rejections and appeals. A lot of people are using GMU.

Also, a high WISC score is no longer a guarantee of acceptance on appeal. If you submit a high WISC score, but the committee isn't seeing what it wants to see when it holistically reviews the file, they'll still reject the kid.

[Anonymous]

I have my suspicions that WISC scores actually put you at a disadvantage with some reviewers. Nothing screams privilege like a private diagnosis…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have my suspicions that WISC scores actually put you at a disadvantage with some reviewers. Nothing screams privilege like a private diagnosis…

My guess is that they only help in very limited cases.
-If the CogAT scores were high, a high WISC is not telling the committee anything new, other than that the kid is privileged.
-If the CogAT scores were lower, a high WISC might suggest prepping for the test or using an overly generous psychologist.
-If the GBRS was low or middling, a high WISC is still not showing the committee what they want to see holistically.

The only time it might help is if the kid had a high GBRS but mediocre CogAT scores. Even then, it's more likely that the parent letter and new work samples will do more to persuade the committee than the WISC.

[Anonymous]

It also should be pointed out that quite a lot of people schedule a WISC through GMU, don't get the score they hoped to see, and then don't bother appealing. For every person who submits an appeal, there are at least a few who intended to appeal but ended up with WISC scores that were too low or were unable to write a convincing parent letter and thus had nothing on which to base an appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GMU is booked solid in the interval between rejections and appeals. A lot of people are using GMU.

Also, a high WISC score is no longer a guarantee of acceptance on appeal. If you submit a high WISC score, but the committee isn't seeing what it wants to see when it holistically reviews the file, they'll still reject the kid.

Do you know how many people are booking appointments or how many appointment slots GMU even has? Do you think that they are doing only WiSCs or do you think that WiSCs are a percentage of the examinations and appointments that they have?

Yes, people are going for a WiSC. I seriously doubt that everyone who is appealing is getting a WiSC. And there is no indication that a high WiSC actually leads to a successful appeal. People have posted that they had a high WiSC for their appeal and did not get into AAP on appeal. People have posted that they went for a WiSC and the score was less then the CogAT and ask if they should include the WiSC.

Essentially, a small percentage of the people applying for AAP, in the first wave or in the appeals process, are using a WiSC. The numbers in the audit bears this out. The anecdotal evidence from this board points to practitioners that are not ginning up bogus scores AND that people with higher WiSC scores are not automatically admitted.

But keep on arguing that somehow or another people are buying their way into AAP and buying WiSC scores. It sure seems to make you feel better about something. I don't know if that is because your child wasn't accepted into AAP and you are looking for an excuse or if you just don't like AAP for some reason and are looking for a reason to tear it down.

I have taken the WiSC, many times in school, because I have LDs. I had to take it every 3-4 years to renew services in my school district. It sucked. I knew that I was struggling in areas, because I am smart and I knew I was suppose to be able to do the things I struggled on. But that is how they measure the gaps in abilities that point to LDs or ADHD. It is stupidly frustrating to take an exam that you know you are, essentially failing. Practitioners understand the importance of these types of exams to identify real issues for people. Only an unethical hack would sell results in order to make more money because practitioners are aware that the results have to be trusted in order to provide supports and assistance to people who need support and assistance.

People who are getting WiSCs for their AAP applications are, in my opinion, strangely invested in AAP. I think AAP is nice but I don't think that it is all that great. My kid is ahead of the math they are doing in AAP so we send him for enrichment. I don't think for a second that the Advanced Math would meet his needs if fewer kids were in AAP. And to be frank, I think the process does a fine job of placing kids in AAP. Are some kids included who should not be, sure. Are some kids missed who should be included, sure. But overall the process works reasonably well. And no, I don't feel like the panic from parents at higher SES schools who are so focused on TJ in second grade warrants the level of emotional responses that people pour into the AAP process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GMU is booked solid in the interval between rejections and appeals. A lot of people are using GMU.

Also, a high WISC score is no longer a guarantee of acceptance on appeal. If you submit a high WISC score, but the committee isn't seeing what it wants to see when it holistically reviews the file, they'll still reject the kid.

Do you know how many people are booking appointments or how many appointment slots GMU even has? Do you think that they are doing only WiSCs or do you think that WiSCs are a percentage of the examinations and appointments that they have?

Yes, people are going for a WiSC. I seriously doubt that everyone who is appealing is getting a WiSC. And there is no indication that a high WiSC actually leads to a successful appeal. People have posted that they had a high WiSC for their appeal and did not get into AAP on appeal. People have posted that they went for a WiSC and the score was less then the CogAT and ask if they should include the WiSC.

Essentially, a small percentage of the people applying for AAP, in the first wave or in the appeals process, are using a WiSC. The numbers in the audit bears this out. The anecdotal evidence from this board points to practitioners that are not ginning up bogus scores AND that people with higher WiSC scores are not automatically admitted.

But keep on arguing that somehow or another people are buying their way into AAP and buying WiSC scores. It sure seems to make you feel better about something. I don't know if that is because your child wasn't accepted into AAP and you are looking for an excuse or if you just don't like AAP for some reason and are looking for a reason to tear it down.

I have taken the WiSC, many times in school, because I have LDs. I had to take it every 3-4 years to renew services in my school district. It sucked. I knew that I was struggling in areas, because I am smart and I knew I was suppose to be able to do the things I struggled on. But that is how they measure the gaps in abilities that point to LDs or ADHD. It is stupidly frustrating to take an exam that you know you are, essentially failing. Practitioners understand the importance of these types of exams to identify real issues for people. Only an unethical hack would sell results in order to make more money because practitioners are aware that the results have to be trusted in order to provide supports and assistance to people who need support and assistance.

People who are getting WiSCs for their AAP applications are, in my opinion, strangely invested in AAP. I think AAP is nice but I don't think that it is all that great. My kid is ahead of the math they are doing in AAP so we send him for enrichment. I don't think for a second that the Advanced Math would meet his needs if fewer kids were in AAP. And to be frank, I think the process does a fine job of placing kids in AAP. Are some kids included who should not be, sure. Are some kids missed who should be included, sure. But overall the process works reasonably well. And no, I don't feel like the panic from parents at higher SES schools who are so focused on TJ in second grade warrants the level of emotional responses that people pour into the AAP process.

Why are you attacking me? I'm pretty obviously arguing that people are NOT buying their way into AAP. Many people are using GMU for WISC, and GMU scores are neither inflated nor are they "for sale." Likewise, I stated that even if a child earns a high WISC, there's no guarantee that the appeals committee will admit the kid.

Maybe you should read posts more carefully and reflect on what is being said before unleashing on someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the posts on these last few pages are from, at most, two people who are spewing junk about something they know little to nothing about. Perhaps they harbor a grudge against FCPS because their special little snowflakes were denied entry into AAP? Who knows...

There's only one way into AAP: the selection committee. The committee allows parents/guardians to appeal an initial rejection with additional work samples and evidence. Sometimes the committee grants an acceptance on appeal if the additional work samples and evidence give a fuller picture of the student's capabilities. This is especially true for students initially viewed to be on the fence between AAP and general education.

This process is not a secret. It also shouldn't be interpreted that kids who are accepted into AAP on appeal are somehow inferior to those kids who were granted an initial acceptance into the program. The selection committee doesn't lower its standards.

But they do accept WISC scores from private psychologists.

Shhh, we're supposed to keep this quiet!

It is on the County’s web page, it is public knowledge.

It's also public knowledge that very few professionals are going to risk their careers/reputations/licenses for a handful of exaggerated WISC scores. But that won't stop the "it's all a sham, you pay your way in!" person (or people, hard to tell) from continuing to parrot their nonsense. I suspect at this point they're just trolling for the lulz or whatever.

LOL, you're kidding, right? Spending $5k gets you the diagnosis of choice for giftedness. This isn't prescribing meds.

Everyone knows this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have my suspicions that WISC scores actually put you at a disadvantage with some reviewers. Nothing screams privilege like a private diagnosis…

My guess is that they only help in very limited cases.
-If the CogAT scores were high, a high WISC is not telling the committee anything new, other than that the kid is privileged.
-If the CogAT scores were lower, a high WISC might suggest prepping for the test or using an overly generous psychologist.
-If the GBRS was low or middling, a high WISC is still not showing the committee what they want to see holistically.

The only time it might help is if the kid had a high GBRS but mediocre CogAT scores. Even then, it's more likely that the parent letter and new work samples will do more to persuade the committee than the WISC.

The WISC and a couple of crisp benjamins, though, are a whole new ballgame!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have my suspicions that WISC scores actually put you at a disadvantage with some reviewers. Nothing screams privilege like a private diagnosis…

My guess is that they only help in very limited cases.
-If the CogAT scores were high, a high WISC is not telling the committee anything new, other than that the kid is privileged.
-If the CogAT scores were lower, a high WISC might suggest prepping for the test or using an overly generous psychologist.
-If the GBRS was low or middling, a high WISC is still not showing the committee what they want to see holistically.

The only time it might help is if the kid had a high GBRS but mediocre CogAT scores. Even then, it's more likely that the parent letter and new work samples will do more to persuade the committee than the WISC.

The WISC and a couple of crisp benjamins, though, are a whole new ballgame!

Some more Benjamines and higher the chances.

[Anonymous]

I think the sane people On this thread should leave the AAP and WISC conspiracy theorists behind so they can wither away in their own echo chamber.

I could say that some of these posts that make wild accusations without a shred of fact or evidence are funny. However, the truth is that they’re pathetic and sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the sane people On this thread should leave the AAP and WISC conspiracy theorists behind so they can wither away in their own echo chamber.

I could say that some of these posts that make wild accusations without a shred of fact or evidence are funny. However, the truth is that they’re pathetic and sad.

Yeah. I think it's just one person who is either very mentally disturbed or just a huge troll. I hope that person gets the help they so desperately need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the sane people On this thread should leave the AAP and WISC conspiracy theorists behind so they can wither away in their own echo chamber.

I could say that some of these posts that make wild accusations without a shred of fact or evidence are funny. However, the truth is that they’re pathetic and sad.

Yeah. I think it's just one person who is either very mentally disturbed or just a huge troll. I hope that person gets the help they so desperately need.

Too bad the scandal is about to unfold exposing the dark side of the AAP admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the sane people On this thread should leave the AAP and WISC conspiracy theorists behind so they can wither away in their own echo chamber.

I could say that some of these posts that make wild accusations without a shred of fact or evidence are funny. However, the truth is that they’re pathetic and sad.

Don't keep the secret all to your selves. You should share valuable information with others.