Lindsey Graham to introduce federal abortion ban

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
A federal Constitutional right cannot be left to the states. Supreme Court is so dang wrong on this one. They really messed up.

They messed up if you believe in the Constitution and what the founders believed. They’re right on track if you want a christofascist dictatorship.

The founders believed in abortion on-demand?


Uh... yes? This is from a book published by Ben Franklin telling ladies how to get their menstrual cycles back (for when they, you know, mysteriously don't come when you expect them to...):
Now I am upon Female Infirmities, it will not be unreasonable to touch upon a common Complaint among unmarried women, namely The Suppression of the Courses. This don’t only disparage their Complexions, but fills them besides with sundry Disorders. For this Misfortune, you must purge with Highland Flagg (commonly called Belly ach Root) a Week before you expect to be out of Order ; and repeat the same two Days after: the next Morning drink a Quarter of a Pint of Pennyroyal Water, or Decoction, and as much again at Night when you go to Bed. Continue this 9 Days running ; and after resting 3 Days, go on with it for 9 more. Ride out every fair Day, stir nimbly about your Affairs, and breathe as much as possible in the open Air...


And there are product advertisements from the 1800s like this. You hardly have to read between the lines to understand what removing an "obstruction" for "married ladies whose health forbid too rapid an increase of family" is about... https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/history-o...cients-and-contraceptives.html


It’s so funny to me when they ask these questions they’re sure are gotcha questions and they just won the argument. It’s almost like they don’t understand that the anti abortion movement in the US was a response to desegregating schools and is rooted in racism, and it’s not a common value that’s been near and dear to every American’s heart since the signing of the Declaration of Independence.


It was rooted in Victorian "morality" and in doctors (who were an emerging profession) that were trying to drive midwives out of business (i.e., competition).


Misogyny might be what got a few laws on the books about medications and treating patients as doctors. But racism was the cause of evangelical christians voting. After schools desegregated, tons of all white religious schools popped up to allow them to send their kids to white schools. After it became obvious what was happening, the IRS got involved and their tax exempt status became iffy, and they were going to have to choose between greed and racism if they couldn't come up with a plan to change the laws so they could hold true to both of their sacred values. It turns out, racism doesn't get out the vote effectively, so they fiddled around to see what they could come up with to get conservatives out on voting day. If they could find an issue that they cared about enough to show up in big numbers, segregationists could count on voters to also allow them to keep their white religious schools and their tax exemptions. Eventually they figured out that abortion was what would drive people out to vote in droves, and while they're there voting to instate misogyny, they can also vote to uphold greed and racism. It was a win-win-win for RWNJs.

You can even see the changing point in the southern baptist convention's doctrine. Before this movement, it talked about how abortion is a private medical decision among a woman, her family, and her doctor. Soon after, it became the mother of all sins, and the good christians must try and save all the babies, even at the expense of women and society. I don't think they were expecting it to take off and become such a political issue. It was just a tool to keep their kids in all white schools, and bonus that it controls women too. But I guess when it took off, they figured they'd roll with it, because no one would be crazy enough to make it completely illegal and cause women to die, lose fertility, or women and girls to have to birth their rapists' babies.

So yeah, abortion restrictions might be rooted in Victorian "morality"/misogyny, but the current nonsense stems directly from racism.

As someone who grew up Southern Baptist in the south in the 1970s and 80s, I think there is a lot of truth to this analysis. The Southern Baptist Convention switched its position on abortion around the same time that Bob Jones University lost its tax exemption. But I don't think that it was necessary a "bonus" re controlling women. I think that was just as much a motivator as racism. And in 10 years, after every evangelical knows someone personally who has suffered under these draconian laws, the situation will change. Even now, if you put choice on the ballot as a referendum, most southern states would vote for at least 15 weeks, plus rape/incest/health of mother (as determined by her doctor).

And now 40 years later abortion is more important to “evangelical Christians” than basic biblical tenets. Fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
A federal Constitutional right cannot be left to the states. Supreme Court is so dang wrong on this one. They really messed up.

They messed up if you believe in the Constitution and what the founders believed. They’re right on track if you want a christofascist dictatorship.

The founders believed in abortion on-demand?


Uh... yes? This is from a book published by Ben Franklin telling ladies how to get their menstrual cycles back (for when they, you know, mysteriously don't come when you expect them to...):
Now I am upon Female Infirmities, it will not be unreasonable to touch upon a common Complaint among unmarried women, namely The Suppression of the Courses. This don’t only disparage their Complexions, but fills them besides with sundry Disorders. For this Misfortune, you must purge with Highland Flagg (commonly called Belly ach Root) a Week before you expect to be out of Order ; and repeat the same two Days after: the next Morning drink a Quarter of a Pint of Pennyroyal Water, or Decoction, and as much again at Night when you go to Bed. Continue this 9 Days running ; and after resting 3 Days, go on with it for 9 more. Ride out every fair Day, stir nimbly about your Affairs, and breathe as much as possible in the open Air...


And there are product advertisements from the 1800s like this. You hardly have to read between the lines to understand what removing an "obstruction" for "married ladies whose health forbid too rapid an increase of family" is about... https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/history-o...cients-and-contraceptives.html


It’s so funny to me when they ask these questions they’re sure are gotcha questions and they just won the argument. It’s almost like they don’t understand that the anti abortion movement in the US was a response to desegregating schools and is rooted in racism, and it’s not a common value that’s been near and dear to every American’s heart since the signing of the Declaration of Independence.


It was rooted in Victorian "morality" and in doctors (who were an emerging profession) that were trying to drive midwives out of business (i.e., competition).


Misogyny might be what got a few laws on the books about medications and treating patients as doctors. But racism was the cause of evangelical christians voting. After schools desegregated, tons of all white religious schools popped up to allow them to send their kids to white schools. After it became obvious what was happening, the IRS got involved and their tax exempt status became iffy, and they were going to have to choose between greed and racism if they couldn't come up with a plan to change the laws so they could hold true to both of their sacred values. It turns out, racism doesn't get out the vote effectively, so they fiddled around to see what they could come up with to get conservatives out on voting day. If they could find an issue that they cared about enough to show up in big numbers, segregationists could count on voters to also allow them to keep their white religious schools and their tax exemptions. Eventually they figured out that abortion was what would drive people out to vote in droves, and while they're there voting to instate misogyny, they can also vote to uphold greed and racism. It was a win-win-win for RWNJs.

You can even see the changing point in the southern baptist convention's doctrine. Before this movement, it talked about how abortion is a private medical decision among a woman, her family, and her doctor. Soon after, it became the mother of all sins, and the good christians must try and save all the babies, even at the expense of women and society. I don't think they were expecting it to take off and become such a political issue. It was just a tool to keep their kids in all white schools, and bonus that it controls women too. But I guess when it took off, they figured they'd roll with it, because no one would be crazy enough to make it completely illegal and cause women to die, lose fertility, or women and girls to have to birth their rapists' babies.

So yeah, abortion restrictions might be rooted in Victorian "morality"/misogyny, but the current nonsense stems directly from racism.

As someone who grew up Southern Baptist in the south in the 1970s and 80s, I think there is a lot of truth to this analysis. The Southern Baptist Convention switched its position on abortion around the same time that Bob Jones University lost its tax exemption. But I don't think that it was necessary a "bonus" re controlling women. I think that was just as much a motivator as racism. And in 10 years, after every evangelical knows someone personally who has suffered under these draconian laws, the situation will change. Even now, if you put choice on the ballot as a referendum, most southern states would vote for at least 15 weeks, plus rape/incest/health of mother (as determined by her doctor).

And now 40 years later abortion is more important to “evangelical Christians” than basic biblical tenets. Fascinating.

It’s a cult. A misogynistic cult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions in 2019 occurred prior to 13 weeks. (https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)

What percentage of those abortions do you think were "because I don't want to have a baby"? Probably the vast majority, right?

So a 15-week ban will not significantly reduce abortions of convenience (which is what Lindsey and his ilk are supposedly trying to do). Instead, it will:

(1) force women to carry unviable pregnancies to term -- increasing dramatically the number of children who are born dead, die soon after birth, or live with disabilities that require expensive care.

(2) force young girls to carry pregnancies to term because they did not know they were pregnant (too young to understand their own bodies or haven't even started a predictable menstrual cycle) or were too afraid to tell anyone they had stopped menstrating and/or had been sexually abused/raped.

(3) encourage more states to pass even more stringent restrictions.

This isn't about "life." It's about punishing women.

Pete Buttigieg had an excellent observation in a Fox News interview. Chris Wallace was asking him about the approximately 6,000 third trimester abortions performed in the U.S. annually:

Wallace wanted to clarify that Buttigieg would be okay with late-term abortion and pointed out that there are more than 6000 women who get third trimester abortions each year.

"That's right," responded Buttiegieg, "representing one percent of cases. So let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, then almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."

I dont know if he practiced that response, had it prepared for him, or even more spectacularly, came up with it right then and there but it is the best response I have read regarding abortion. It actually addresses the issue of banning abortion at any point- you end up hurting women and their families.

[Anonymous]

Why do I get the sense Lindsay is trying to take down the modern GOP on the way out the door?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions in 2019 occurred prior to 13 weeks. (https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)

What percentage of those abortions do you think were "because I don't want to have a baby"? Probably the vast majority, right?

So a 15-week ban will not significantly reduce abortions of convenience (which is what Lindsey and his ilk are supposedly trying to do). Instead, it will:

(1) force women to carry unviable pregnancies to term -- increasing dramatically the number of children who are born dead, die soon after birth, or live with disabilities that require expensive care.

(2) force young girls to carry pregnancies to term because they did not know they were pregnant (too young to understand their own bodies or haven't even started a predictable menstrual cycle) or were too afraid to tell anyone they had stopped menstrating and/or had been sexually abused/raped.

(3) encourage more states to pass even more stringent restrictions.

This isn't about "life." It's about punishing women.

Pete Buttigieg had an excellent observation in a Fox News interview. Chris Wallace was asking him about the approximately 6,000 third trimester abortions performed in the U.S. annually:

Wallace wanted to clarify that Buttigieg would be okay with late-term abortion and pointed out that there are more than 6000 women who get third trimester abortions each year.

"That's right," responded Buttiegieg, "representing one percent of cases. So let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, then almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."

I dont know if he practiced that response, had it prepared for him, or even more spectacularly, came up with it right then and there but it is the best response I have read regarding abortion. It actually addresses the issue of banning abortion at any point- you end up hurting women and their families.

+1 This message needs to be hammered out over and over.

And also the reality that such situations don't affect just Democrats. Republican women also experience this heartbreak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions in 2019 occurred prior to 13 weeks. (https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)

What percentage of those abortions do you think were "because I don't want to have a baby"? Probably the vast majority, right?

So a 15-week ban will not significantly reduce abortions of convenience (which is what Lindsey and his ilk are supposedly trying to do). Instead, it will:

(1) force women to carry unviable pregnancies to term -- increasing dramatically the number of children who are born dead, die soon after birth, or live with disabilities that require expensive care.

(2) force young girls to carry pregnancies to term because they did not know they were pregnant (too young to understand their own bodies or haven't even started a predictable menstrual cycle) or were too afraid to tell anyone they had stopped menstrating and/or had been sexually abused/raped.

(3) encourage more states to pass even more stringent restrictions.

This isn't about "life." It's about punishing women.

Pete Buttigieg had an excellent observation in a Fox News interview. Chris Wallace was asking him about the approximately 6,000 third trimester abortions performed in the U.S. annually:

Wallace wanted to clarify that Buttigieg would be okay with late-term abortion and pointed out that there are more than 6000 women who get third trimester abortions each year.

"That's right," responded Buttiegieg, "representing one percent of cases. So let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, then almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."

I dont know if he practiced that response, had it prepared for him, or even more spectacularly, came up with it right then and there but it is the best response I have read regarding abortion. It actually addresses the issue of banning abortion at any point- you end up hurting women and their families.

+1 This message needs to be hammered out over and over.

And also the reality that such situations don't affect just Democrats. Republican women also experience this heartbreak.

It’s been widely talked about but Never Trumpers / moderates still love to blame Roe on progressives because they openly advocate for no restrictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do I get the sense Lindsay is trying to take down the modern GOP on the way out the door?

did he get a new hairpiece?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions in 2019 occurred prior to 13 weeks. (https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)

What percentage of those abortions do you think were "because I don't want to have a baby"? Probably the vast majority, right?

So a 15-week ban will not significantly reduce abortions of convenience (which is what Lindsey and his ilk are supposedly trying to do). Instead, it will:

(1) force women to carry unviable pregnancies to term -- increasing dramatically the number of children who are born dead, die soon after birth, or live with disabilities that require expensive care.

(2) force young girls to carry pregnancies to term because they did not know they were pregnant (too young to understand their own bodies or haven't even started a predictable menstrual cycle) or were too afraid to tell anyone they had stopped menstrating and/or had been sexually abused/raped.

(3) encourage more states to pass even more stringent restrictions.

This isn't about "life." It's about punishing women.

Pete Buttigieg had an excellent observation in a Fox News interview. Chris Wallace was asking him about the approximately 6,000 third trimester abortions performed in the U.S. annually:

Wallace wanted to clarify that Buttigieg would be okay with late-term abortion and pointed out that there are more than 6000 women who get third trimester abortions each year.

"That's right," responded Buttiegieg, "representing one percent of cases. So let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, then almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."

I dont know if he practiced that response, had it prepared for him, or even more spectacularly, came up with it right then and there but it is the best response I have read regarding abortion. It actually addresses the issue of banning abortion at any point- you end up hurting women and their families.

+1 This message needs to be hammered out over and over.

And also the reality that such situations don't affect just Democrats. Republican women also experience this heartbreak.

It happened to Santorum’s wife and he’s the worst of them on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the CDC, 92.7% of abortions in 2019 occurred prior to 13 weeks. (https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)

What percentage of those abortions do you think were "because I don't want to have a baby"? Probably the vast majority, right?

So a 15-week ban will not significantly reduce abortions of convenience (which is what Lindsey and his ilk are supposedly trying to do). Instead, it will:

(1) force women to carry unviable pregnancies to term -- increasing dramatically the number of children who are born dead, die soon after birth, or live with disabilities that require expensive care.

(2) force young girls to carry pregnancies to term because they did not know they were pregnant (too young to understand their own bodies or haven't even started a predictable menstrual cycle) or were too afraid to tell anyone they had stopped menstrating and/or had been sexually abused/raped.

(3) encourage more states to pass even more stringent restrictions.

This isn't about "life." It's about punishing women.

Pete Buttigieg had an excellent observation in a Fox News interview. Chris Wallace was asking him about the approximately 6,000 third trimester abortions performed in the U.S. annually:

Wallace wanted to clarify that Buttigieg would be okay with late-term abortion and pointed out that there are more than 6000 women who get third trimester abortions each year.

"That's right," responded Buttiegieg, "representing one percent of cases. So let's put ourselves in the shoes of a woman in that situation. If it's that late in your pregnancy, then almost by definition, you've been expecting to carry it to term. We're talking about women who have perhaps chosen a name. Women who have purchased a crib, families that then get the most devastating medical news of their lifetime, something about the health or the life of the mother or viability of the pregnancy that forces them to make an impossible, unthinkable choice. And the bottom line is as horrible as that choice is, that woman, that family may seek spiritual guidance, they may seek medical guidance, but that decision is not going to be made any better, medically or morally, because the government is dictating how that decision should be made."

I dont know if he practiced that response, had it prepared for him, or even more spectacularly, came up with it right then and there but it is the best response I have read regarding abortion. It actually addresses the issue of banning abortion at any point- you end up hurting women and their families.

+1 This message needs to be hammered out over and over.

And also the reality that such situations don't affect just Democrats. Republican women also experience this heartbreak.

It happened to Santorum’s wife and he’s the worst of them on this issue.

Because forced birthers are selfish punks.

[Anonymous]

I cannot express in words how insanely naive you must be if you think this stops with abortion ban.

I really, truly cannot help you. But there are many other ways they can and will control your body. In their view, your body is for them to control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I get the sense Lindsay is trying to take down the modern GOP on the way out the door?

did he get a new hairpiece?

Haha - glad I’m not the only one who noticed that