Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Agree, poster mentions getting COVID or a vaccine makes it stronger after being exposed. The immune system is not stronger each time we are exposed to something. It is broader as pp says. One’s immune system is not more healthy or stronger as you say. We would all be healthiest at old age if that were the case because what you are saying is that the more exposure to things, the more strong our immunity becomes. Nonsense.
And if we were stronger, all of our immune systems would go into overdrive.
That's a strange argument. An elderly person that engages in strength training is, of course, not as strong as when they were in their prime. But they are stronger on a relative scale and have a better chance of maintaining a healthy, active lifestyle. Strength is not an absolute.
There is no correlation between strength training and getting exposed to viruses and bacteria as strengthening.
I appreciate that given your fixation on semantics, your ability to understand analogies will be inherently limited.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
My, you are a sore loser, aren’t you? Do you always take a stance and then argue against it?
Medical info please from you has been requested many times.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Agree, poster mentions getting COVID or a vaccine makes it stronger after being exposed. The immune system is not stronger each time we are exposed to something. It is broader as pp says. One’s immune system is not more healthy or stronger as you say. We would all be healthiest at old age if that were the case because what you are saying is that the more exposure to things, the more strong our immunity becomes. Nonsense.
And if we were stronger, all of our immune systems would go into overdrive.
That's a strange argument. An elderly person that engages in strength training is, of course, not as strong as when they were in their prime. But they are stronger on a relative scale and have a better chance of maintaining a healthy, active lifestyle. Strength is not an absolute.
There is no correlation between strength training and getting exposed to viruses and bacteria as strengthening.
I appreciate that given your fixation on semantics, your ability to understand analogies will be inherently limited.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
My, you are a sore loser, aren’t you? Do you always take a stance and then argue against it?
Medical info please from you has been requested many times.
Seemingly, her medical knowledge is in sending articles.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
My, you are a sore loser, aren’t you? Do you always take a stance and then argue against it?
Medical info please from you has been requested many times.
The discussion is over the word “strength”. That’s it. You’ve already lost.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
My, you are a sore loser, aren’t you? Do you always take a stance and then argue against it?
Medical info please from you has been requested many times.
Seemingly, her medical knowledge is in sending articles.
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
My, you are a sore loser, aren’t you? Do you always take a stance and then argue against it?
Medical info please from you has been requested many times.
Seemingly, her medical knowledge is in sending articles.
Anonymous wrote:I have Covid right now. I would have no clue I had it except I tested after vacation. I have zero symptoms. If vax no big deal. Don’t be Nancy Boys
Anonymous wrote:I have Covid right now. I would have no clue I had it except I tested after vacation. I have zero symptoms. If vax no big deal. Don’t be Nancy Boys
Anonymous wrote:No way on masks. Covid is never going away. I’d rather let my kids strengthen their immune systems while you g than trying to hide from a virus. No way on masks.
That’s a myth.
What is a myth?
It is absolutely true that kids need exposure to a wide variety of germs growing up to build a strong immune system! Bring on the coughs and colds.
It’s called the hygiene hypothesis and has been proven by several medical establishments such as MIT Medical and others to be not true.
It does nothing to neither weaken nor boost one’s immune system.
No. The hygiene hypothesis has to do with kids developing allergies.
It is well-known that kids need exposure to bacteria and viruses as kids to develop their immune systems. That is exactly how the immune system (and vaccines) work.
Agreed. How could exposure to bacteria/viruses not boost the immune system? That's how it's trained. Ask the Martians how this works.
The research (including MIT Medical) clearly talks about allergies.
A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response.
This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system
DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false.
Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children.
You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven.
How do vaccines work?
Again, you can look up that information along with the other information.
It's just magic, right? Vaccines have nothing to do with the immune system. Vaccines just magically circulate through the body to fight the bad guys.
Drinking early in day, aren’t you?
I don't know. Can I find the answer on the "internet of studies"?
DP. It’s not the “internet of studies,” meaning the studies of the internet. Can you not understand context? It’s says general info from the internet of studies (done). My God, do you take everything so literal and not learn inferential and context in comprehension?
I understand that when somebody on a message board points you to the internet, that poster doesn't have any idea what they're talking about.
You don’t understand that the information you asked for is found easily on many sites on the internet; that one does not need to hold your hand to the many sites.
When somebody on a message board says "look it up; do your research; Google it, etc.", they reliably don't know what they're talking about. That poster proved it via this incredulous exchange (these aren't my posts below). What part about original poster's premise is wrong?
Poster: "A child is exposed to a virus. The body launches an immune response. The child gets sick with a fever, cough, etc. These are all signs of the body’s immune response. Ideally (and usually), the child can fight off the virus successfully. The next time this child is exposed to the same virus, the child’s immune system ‘remembers’ the virus from the last time and launches an even stronger response. This is the basic idea with vaccines and natural immunity. Obviously it is different for kids who are immunocompromised. But, for the average, healthy child, it is necessary to be exposed to bacteria and viruses as a child to develop a robust immune system"
Simpleton: "DP. That’s been a long-standing belief but in reality is false."
Poster: "Ok, then please do explain how the immune system develops in children."
Simpleton: "You can get that information form an immunologist or general information from the internet of studies.
You can also find plenty of information from reputable medical establishments talking about the topic and how it’s been disproven."
Not even sort of true. I’ve wasted time posting links to reputable sources on the net many times. Spoiler: people who don’t want to believe in something won’t ever change their mind no matter what facts they are presented with. They’d rather live in their ignorant bubble. I’m done doing their research for them and it doesn’t make my well researched points any less valid just because I have better things to do. People need to do the heavy lifting on their own. Or they don’t. This country is full of people who’d rather celebrate ignorance rather than educate themselves. Those of us who are educated are exhausted.
There’s hundreds of links on the internet that say the immune system is developed in childhood thru exposure to viruses and bacteria. That’s the premise of how vaccines work as well. By chance, were you educated at Clown College?
Nurse here, there are many factors to building and maintaining a stronger immune system throughout one’s life. Diet, genetics, inflammation, exposure to irritants, stress, etc all contribute. Exposure to viruses and bacteria is a very common misnomer.
DP. Are you actually claiming exposure to viruses and bacteria does not help to develop a stronger immune system?
Yep. This nurse PP and another PP are making that exact claim. It is blatant misinformation. Not even sure why posts like that are allowed to stay on the site. I’ve seen other posts (actual, factual posts with supporting links) deleted and censored. Super strange.
Curious of your medical background and training.
Compared to a nurse?
That’s sort of like saying the cashier at a grocery store is an authoritative source on nutrition. That’s not their role or training.
I’m really struggling to think of a plausible interpretation of those posts that could be correct in some sort of nuanced way. Obviously exposure to viruses and bacteria produces antibodies, t cells, b cells, etc., the information from which remain in the body in different forms for long periods of time. This is an important part of the immune system.
I don't know if people are being purposely obtuse, ill-educated, or getting lost in the nuance. Of course your immune system gets "stronger" when exposed to new viruses/bacteria during childhood. It now has a new signature it its "database". It's stronger. It's no different than the partial natural immunity conveyed during Covid (or via vaccine). Your immune system is stronger because it's smarter.
No it’s not, it can give a broader range of immunity, but it is not stronger.
Okay, so you qualify as lost in nuance over the definition of stronger. You're truly arguing over how to pronounce tomato.
No, you just feel embarrassed and attempting to turn it around with deflecting.
I believe you were asked several times by someone your medical background to which you still won’t answer.
I pronounce tomato-tuh-may-toe. Pronounce it however you like, I don’t mind.
Embarrassed? Not at all. You want to call it "broader". Fine. I'll call it stronger. From Harvard Health:
"Healthy ways to strengthen your immune system Your first line of defense is to choose a healthy lifestyle. Following general good-health guidelines is the single best step you can take toward naturally keeping your immune system working properly. Every part of your body, including your immune system, functions better when protected from environmental assaults and bolstered by healthy-living strategies such as these:
Don't smoke.
Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
Exercise regularly.
Maintain a healthy weight.
If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
Get adequate sleep.
Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.
Try to minimize stress.
Keep current with all recommended vaccines. Vaccines prime your immune system to fight off infections before they take hold in your body."
Vaccines use exposure to build a database signature.
You argued that being exposed to viruses and bacteria is the way to a better immune system. Nothing in the article states that. It only serves to state what the nurse stated who you were trying to contradict. You inadvertently made the case for who you were arguing with.
It's clear you don't understand how vaccines work. You're officially hopeless and irredeemable.
It’s clear you don’t understand that no one nor the nurse argued against vaccines. You clearly stated that exposure to bacteria and viruses is the way to building a strong immune system.
Your deflection is top-notch.
Where’s that medical training information you are attempting to hide?
Just take the loss. Your whole argument is predicated on semantics.
"Have you ever stopped your kids from getting their hands dirty with mud or sand? If so, you may want to rethink your stand as many medical experts now believe that playing with mud is a great way to strengthen your child’s immunity. In fact, doctors and scientists believe that allergies and asthma are higher in wealthy countries due to lack of exposure to bacteria and other microorganisms — a fact backed by several studies."
"Exposure to germs in childhood is thought to help strengthen the immune system and protect children from developing allergies and asthma, but the pathways by which this occurs have been unclear. Now, researchers have identified a mechanism in mice that may explain the role of exposure to microbes in the development of asthma and ulcerative colitis, a common form of inflammatory bowel disease.
"A child exposed to colds and viruses earlier in life will develop a stronger immune system and is less likely to become sick in his or her later years."
"The immune system also learns things—this is called acquired or adaptive immunity. When your immune system is exposed to a new germ for the first time, it responds by trying to fight it off—which means you may become sick. But afterward, the immune cells will remember the invader and be better equipped to fight it, should it return."
An irrelevant conclusion, also known as ignoratio elenchi (Latin for 'ignoring refutation') or missing the point, is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid and sound, but (whose conclusion) fails to address the issue in question. It falls into the broad class of relevance fallacies.
No. K and third. I still mask on metro and at work though. We haven’t had Covid yet. Expect to get it within weeks once the kids are back in school. The kindergartner has articulation issues and we need to have her see faces for speech. The third grader stopped wearing his last spring over our protests so I’m not even trying.
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