NCS college admissions if kid is not a legacy, URM, or athletic recruit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine the undergraduate experience at a school with no athletes and only academic grinds. Sounds like fun!

how many students at MIT or Yale attend the typical game there? Check the attendance at the average baseball or lacrosse game. It's less than 1% probably. No one would miss it.

so sad that your definition of 'fun' limited to going to a game. you should get out more.

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.

+1 and I’ve attended sporting events at both of those schools.

I’m not sure anyone on this thread has pointed out the benefits particularly to women of participating in sports- greater confidence, better grades, and less depression. These factors absolutely contribute to lifelong success. I can’t tell you how impressive my Ivy League womens crew teammates have been in the sciences, business, medicine, and law twenty years on. Total rockstars who know how to work hard and stay focused.

if this is true, then sports at college should be open to all students, since they can all benefit from it. recruiting athletes runs counter to this - admit the kids who are actually qualified and let them benefit from this.

Exactly. When Univ football coaches are paid several multiples of the Univ Presidents' salaries, you can tell what is wrong with the whole system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

NP. The people who donate very large sums of money to the schools would care an enormous amount, my angry little friend. And that is why recruited athletes aren’t going anywhere. You can seethe all you want, but your post is wildly ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine the undergraduate experience at a school with no athletes and only academic grinds. Sounds like fun!

how many students at MIT or Yale attend the typical game there? Check the attendance at the average baseball or lacrosse game. It's less than 1% probably. No one would miss it.

so sad that your definition of 'fun' limited to going to a game. you should get out more.

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.

+1 and I’ve attended sporting events at both of those schools.

I’m not sure anyone on this thread has pointed out the benefits particularly to women of participating in sports- greater confidence, better grades, and less depression. These factors absolutely contribute to lifelong success. I can’t tell you how impressive my Ivy League womens crew teammates have been in the sciences, business, medicine, and law twenty years on. Total rockstars who know how to work hard and stay focused.

if this is true, then sports at college should be open to all students, since they can all benefit from it. recruiting athletes runs counter to this - admit the kids who are actually qualified and let them benefit from this.

Exactly. When Univ football coaches are paid several multiples of the Univ Presidents' salaries, you can tell what is wrong with the whole system.

So don’t participate. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine the undergraduate experience at a school with no athletes and only academic grinds. Sounds like fun!

how many students at MIT or Yale attend the typical game there? Check the attendance at the average baseball or lacrosse game. It's less than 1% probably. No one would miss it.

so sad that your definition of 'fun' limited to going to a game. you should get out more.

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.

+1 and I’ve attended sporting events at both of those schools.

I’m not sure anyone on this thread has pointed out the benefits particularly to women of participating in sports- greater confidence, better grades, and less depression. These factors absolutely contribute to lifelong success. I can’t tell you how impressive my Ivy League womens crew teammates have been in the sciences, business, medicine, and law twenty years on. Total rockstars who know how to work hard and stay focused.

if this is true, then sports at college should be open to all students, since they can all benefit from it. recruiting athletes runs counter to this - admit the kids who are actually qualified and let them benefit from this.

Exactly. When Univ football coaches are paid several multiples of the Univ Presidents' salaries, you can tell what is wrong with the whole system.

So don’t participate. Problem solved.

No. Problem not solved by saying "Exit". Maybe you should have studied a bit more in college instead of doing crew or whatever. Start with "Exit Voice and Loyalty" Hirschman. Here is a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally looked at the list. I'm a longtime teacher at a different school and wow, I'm impressed. I see talented young women ready to take the world by storm going to an awesome selection of schools around the country -- big state universities, small liberal arts colleges, schools renowned for humanities, schools known for engineering and STEM.

Congratulations NCS class of 2022! I know you've all worked hard and you will be so well prepared and represent yourselves, your family and your school amazingly. Loved seeing all the kids in different settings in some really stunning photos. Well done all of you! (And well done parents, your kids are poised to do so well at the next stage of their academic journey.)

So refreshing...a positive, non-snarky post on DCUM. Brava and I have no dog in the fight with respect to NCS.

Let's get real. OPs point was not that there weren't any impressive outcomes -- but rather that they were mostly legacy/URM/Athlete. Nothing that this longtime teacher says contradicts the point. OPs observation stays.

+1. Agree

Correct observation about college admissions these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine the undergraduate experience at a school with no athletes and only academic grinds. Sounds like fun!

how many students at MIT or Yale attend the typical game there? Check the attendance at the average baseball or lacrosse game. It's less than 1% probably. No one would miss it.

so sad that your definition of 'fun' limited to going to a game. you should get out more.

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.

+1 and I’ve attended sporting events at both of those schools.

I’m not sure anyone on this thread has pointed out the benefits particularly to women of participating in sports- greater confidence, better grades, and less depression. These factors absolutely contribute to lifelong success. I can’t tell you how impressive my Ivy League womens crew teammates have been in the sciences, business, medicine, and law twenty years on. Total rockstars who know how to work hard and stay focused.

if this is true, then sports at college should be open to all students, since they can all benefit from it. recruiting athletes runs counter to this - admit the kids who are actually qualified and let them benefit from this.

There is still active club-level sports and rec sports in college. The club water polo and hockey teams have a blast. Broomball too. And club soccer.
You don’t have to sit around and play dungeons and dragons in college. Wake up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. You can’t reason with DCUMs obsessed anti-athlete posters. They are obsessed. I would not try.

No kidding. I bet non-coddled, non- misfit kids can’t wait to get out of this city into the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

That won’t happen but even if college dropped all their teams, top athlete academics would still have impressive admissions hooks.

[Anonymous]

Will add that my colleagues daughter was on a top slacs’ LaX team during the initial Covid year.
She was allowed on campus, in a team cohort during that whole virtual year and had a blast with her team.
Did online classes but with the camaraderie and sports practices of her entire team. It was her freshman year so really helped her start college with socialization, mentorship, friends, exercise, team bonding, and having a great team. Meanwhile, non athlete students were at home dialing in to zooms or recordings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

Can you think of a more popular event at Harvard or Yale than the Game?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will add that my colleagues daughter was on a top slacs’ LaX team during the initial Covid year.
She was allowed on campus, in a team cohort during that whole virtual year and had a blast with her team.
Did online classes but with the camaraderie and sports practices of her entire team. It was her freshman year so really helped her start college with socialization, mentorship, friends, exercise, team bonding, and having a great team. Meanwhile, non athlete students were at home dialing in to zooms or recordings.

I wonder how many parents are waiting until their kids have degree in hand to sue for breech? I know the GW suit is ongoing, but other students have claims and the statute of limitations hasn't tolled for any of them yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

That won’t happen but even if college dropped all their teams, top athlete academics would still have impressive admissions hooks.

yes, the 10-15% would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine the undergraduate experience at a school with no athletes and only academic grinds. Sounds like fun!

how many students at MIT or Yale attend the typical game there? Check the attendance at the average baseball or lacrosse game. It's less than 1% probably. No one would miss it.

so sad that your definition of 'fun' limited to going to a game. you should get out more.

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.

+1 and I’ve attended sporting events at both of those schools.

I’m not sure anyone on this thread has pointed out the benefits particularly to women of participating in sports- greater confidence, better grades, and less depression. These factors absolutely contribute to lifelong success. I can’t tell you how impressive my Ivy League womens crew teammates have been in the sciences, business, medicine, and law twenty years on. Total rockstars who know how to work hard and stay focused.

if this is true, then sports at college should be open to all students, since they can all benefit from it. recruiting athletes runs counter to this - admit the kids who are actually qualified and let them benefit from this.

There is still active club-level sports and rec sports in college. The club water polo and hockey teams have a blast. Broomball too. And club soccer.
You don’t have to sit around and play dungeons and dragons in college. Wake up.

so that should more than sufficient to provide the benefits athletics give to women. no need to admit the marginally qualified athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

NP. The people who donate very large sums of money to the schools would care an enormous amount, my angry little friend. And that is why recruited athletes aren’t going anywhere. You can seethe all you want, but your post is wildly ignorant.

my post is the painful truth, which is why you feel the need to get personal. i mean, celebrate your good fortune. your child is getting into Yale when their academics don't justify it. not asking you to be ashamed of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you been to sporting events at Yale or MIT? Obviously not. Especially at Yale, sports bring the normal people out and together. Yes, the nerds probably avoid it, but the smart, mainstream kids make it part of their experience. I know this firsthand, not from assumptions.


we know this firsthand as well, and there is lackluster attendance at best. don't try to make it something it's not. It might make you feel better to label people as 'nerds' and outside of the 'mainstream' but you're just showing your bias.

My kids were athletes at Yale and other Ivy League schools. Your reports of “lackluster attendance” may be true for some sports at some schools, but that’s definitely not what I witnessed. Students from all over the league go to the H-Y football game. Brown was PACKED last weekend for men’s lacrosse game, with a huge student section. When Harvard women played Princeton in soccer this year, there were hundreds of people in the stands. Princeton had hundreds there for the last home women’s lax game a few weeks ago. I have seen Ivy cross country meets where kids drove from Dartmouth/Penn/Yale to NYC to cheer on friends.

Sports are most certainly a part of campus life, and recruited athletes underpin that. Many of the recruited athletes I know had top grades and test scores in high school (NMSF, valedictorian, etc.), as well as clubs and the huge number of hours spent over years on their sport. These kids are legitimate applicants to these schools who would had a shot even without their sport. Add that in, and tgey make decisions easy for the admissions office.

recruited athletes are a choice. if they disappeared tomorrow from Yale, no one would care other than the athletes. the miniscule percentage of students attending games would move on to something else. sports plays almost no role in the campus culture other than the Harvard football game which is just an excuse for daytime drinking.

as to the rest of your post, your kids benefitted from the ultimate hook. why can't you just admit that? the data from Harvard is unambiguous- 85-90% of recruited athletes would not have been admitted to Harvard based on their academic rating.

NP. The people who donate very large sums of money to the schools would care an enormous amount, my angry little friend. And that is why recruited athletes aren’t going anywhere. You can seethe all you want, but your post is wildly ignorant.

my post is the painful truth, which is why you feel the need to get personal. i mean, celebrate your good fortune. your child is getting into Yale when their academics don't justify it. not asking you to be ashamed of that.

Yale's own mission statement is to education aspiring leaders. Like it or not, schools don't just care about academics when selecting students because they know that the kid with perfect scores and perfect grades isn't necessarily the kid who will be giving back to the school in 10 years or hiring new grads in 15.