How did Herndon/Westfield HS go from top to bottom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really disgusting how much discussion is going into putting down the low SES/ESL kids in the Herndon pyramid and ways to contain those and kids in similar situations walled off from the rest of FCPS. Worse, some of these poor kids are here because of federal and state decisions many well-heeled, blue voters throughout the county support. Oooh, we’re for this and that (so long as we send the newly arrived poor ones to Herndon, keep the old poor ones at Justice and Mount Vernon, the poor Asian ones at Annandale, ….). Barf.

You think just because Annandale is k-town Korean people live there? LOL Are you still living in the 90's? Koreans left Annandale after they made money. Annandale is a latino barrio now.

by the way.... can't wait for DCUM to delete my post LOL

I see lots of Vietnamese/Laos students from Annandale.

Annandale has about an average percentage of Asian kids for an FCPS high school (18%), but they are more likely now to have parents from Vietnam or Pakistan than Korea. The Koreans own many of the businesses in Annandale, but live in areas like Centreville, Chantilly, and Rockville. And while the Annandale area as a whole is still majority white, the school-age population is now majority Hispanic.

I don't think anyone ever set out to concentrate poverty at AHS or HHS. Rather, they made a series of incremental decisions that seemed convenient at the time, and which they knew would be less likely to prompt dissent than other alternatives, that over time have led to this result. Sending Herndon kids in Great Falls to Langley in the mid-90s and Annandale kids living outside the Beltway to Woodson in the early-10s are two such examples.

I went to McLean HS in the early 90s. One of the reasons why MHS was always ranked behind Langley HS was because of the poor performance of the kids that came from the Falls Church apartments.

[Anonymous]

And now some of you can see why Tholen advocating against apartments in her school pyramid triggers some people.

[Anonymous]

From a political and logistical standpoint whether you agree or not with concentrating poverty in a hypothetical new Hutchinson Western HS, such an option would cause the fewest tailwinds.

Such posters may come around as elitist. But isn’t this the same for college decision making, when parents choose the most prestigious academic institution? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to increase the academic prestige of their high school via engineering test score increases? Don’t parents send their kids to college in an environment as safe as possible? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to eliminate populations that are disproportionately causing issues within their schools? I’m sure that is against the values of the more progressive posters that preach equity, but for most county residents that include many center of left democrats this is a valid concern advanced by their humanely instincts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From a political and logistical standpoint whether you agree or not with concentrating poverty in a hypothetical new Hutchinson Western HS, such an option would cause the fewest tailwinds.

Such posters may come around as elitist. But isn’t this the same for college decision making, when parents choose the most prestigious academic institution? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to increase the academic prestige of their high school via engineering test score increases? Don’t parents send their kids to college in an environment as safe as possible? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to eliminate populations that are disproportionately causing issues within their schools? I’m sure that is against the values of the more progressive posters that preach equity, but for most county residents that include many center of left democrats this is a valid concern advanced by their humanely instincts.

For one thing, the concept of high school prestige is nonsensical because public schools can't choose who attends (ignoring selective magnets). FCPS is a public school system funded by taxpayers and hence it should work in the best interest of all students and populations.

If residents want their children to be surrounded by only a specific population, or demand that their neighborhood schools remain segregated enough that high-poverty children do not attend their school, then those residents should be willing to pay for private school in order to escape the regular population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a political and logistical standpoint whether you agree or not with concentrating poverty in a hypothetical new Hutchinson Western HS, such an option would cause the fewest tailwinds.

Such posters may come around as elitist. But isn’t this the same for college decision making, when parents choose the most prestigious academic institution? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to increase the academic prestige of their high school via engineering test score increases? Don’t parents send their kids to college in an environment as safe as possible? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to eliminate populations that are disproportionately causing issues within their schools? I’m sure that is against the values of the more progressive posters that preach equity, but for most county residents that include many center of left democrats this is a valid concern advanced by their humanely instincts.

For one thing, the concept of high school prestige is nonsensical because public schools can't choose who attends (ignoring selective magnets). FCPS is a public school system funded by taxpayers and hence it should work in the best interest of all students and populations.

If residents want their children to be surrounded by only a specific population, or demand that their neighborhood schools remain segregated enough that high-poverty children do not attend their school, then those residents should be willing to pay for private school in order to escape the regular population.

Point acknowledged, but ask the McLean/Langley parents if they have high school prestige or even Madison/Oakton parents. the natural outcome is if the Hutchinson site is indeed chosen from a proximity viewpoint the closest elementary schools are Coates, Hutchinson, Herndon, McNair, Dogwood, Clearview. So unless one wants to inefficiently bus kids like they do with Great Falls to Langley, but this time to a much poorer Hutchinson HS the point is moot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really disgusting how much discussion is going into putting down the low SES/ESL kids in the Herndon pyramid and ways to contain those and kids in similar situations walled off from the rest of FCPS. Worse, some of these poor kids are here because of federal and state decisions many well-heeled, blue voters throughout the county support. Oooh, we’re for this and that (so long as we send the newly arrived poor ones to Herndon, keep the old poor ones at Justice and Mount Vernon, the poor Asian ones at Annandale, ….). Barf.

You think just because Annandale is k-town Korean people live there? LOL Are you still living in the 90's? Koreans left Annandale after they made money. Annandale is a latino barrio now.

by the way.... can't wait for DCUM to delete my post LOL

You are missing the point. Many ugly DCUMers want to fence the so-called undesirables into certain schools, while theirs snowflakes stay untouched. These were examples. It is not disparaging anyone except the racists/classists/elitists.

The ugly DCUMers want to keep everyone in masks because they’re hit in the face and a mask makes them better looking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a political and logistical standpoint whether you agree or not with concentrating poverty in a hypothetical new Hutchinson Western HS, such an option would cause the fewest tailwinds.

Such posters may come around as elitist. But isn’t this the same for college decision making, when parents choose the most prestigious academic institution? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to increase the academic prestige of their high school via engineering test score increases? Don’t parents send their kids to college in an environment as safe as possible? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to eliminate populations that are disproportionately causing issues within their schools? I’m sure that is against the values of the more progressive posters that preach equity, but for most county residents that include many center of left democrats this is a valid concern advanced by their humanely instincts.

For one thing, the concept of high school prestige is nonsensical because public schools can't choose who attends (ignoring selective magnets). FCPS is a public school system funded by taxpayers and hence it should work in the best interest of all students and populations.

If residents want their children to be surrounded by only a specific population, or demand that their neighborhood schools remain segregated enough that high-poverty children do not attend their school, then those residents should be willing to pay for private school in order to escape the regular population.

Point acknowledged, but ask the McLean/Langley parents if they have high school prestige or even Madison/Oakton parents. the natural outcome is if the Hutchinson site is indeed chosen from a proximity viewpoint the closest elementary schools are Coates, Hutchinson, Herndon, McNair, Dogwood, Clearview. So unless one wants to inefficiently bus kids like they do with Great Falls to Langley, but this time to a much poorer Hutchinson HS the point is moot.

So the latest argument (disguised in the argument that people should favor this, when clearly FCPS wouldn't) is that FCPS can't build near Hutchison because the feeders will all be high FARMS schools?

Nice try, but no. They could easily draw the boundaries to include a mix of schools, with the resulting school similar overall all to Westfield (not as high FARMS as Herndon currently, and not as low FARMS as Chantilly). And all those kids would live considerably closer to the new school than kids in western Great Falls now attending Langley.

[Anonymous]

Langley Langley Langley!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a political and logistical standpoint whether you agree or not with concentrating poverty in a hypothetical new Hutchinson Western HS, such an option would cause the fewest tailwinds.

Such posters may come around as elitist. But isn’t this the same for college decision making, when parents choose the most prestigious academic institution? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to increase the academic prestige of their high school via engineering test score increases? Don’t parents send their kids to college in an environment as safe as possible? Why shouldn’t middle class parents try to eliminate populations that are disproportionately causing issues within their schools? I’m sure that is against the values of the more progressive posters that preach equity, but for most county residents that include many center of left democrats this is a valid concern advanced by their humanely instincts.

For one thing, the concept of high school prestige is nonsensical because public schools can't choose who attends (ignoring selective magnets). FCPS is a public school system funded by taxpayers and hence it should work in the best interest of all students and populations.

If residents want their children to be surrounded by only a specific population, or demand that their neighborhood schools remain segregated enough that high-poverty children do not attend their school, then those residents should be willing to pay for private school in order to escape the regular population.

Point acknowledged, but ask the McLean/Langley parents if they have high school prestige or even Madison/Oakton parents. the natural outcome is if the Hutchinson site is indeed chosen from a proximity viewpoint the closest elementary schools are Coates, Hutchinson, Herndon, McNair, Dogwood, Clearview. So unless one wants to inefficiently bus kids like they do with Great Falls to Langley, but this time to a much poorer Hutchinson HS the point is moot.

So the latest argument (disguised in the argument that people should favor this, when clearly FCPS wouldn't) is that FCPS can't build near Hutchison because the feeders will all be high FARMS schools?

Nice try, but no. They could easily draw the boundaries to include a mix of schools, with the resulting school similar overall all to Westfield (not as high FARMS as Herndon currently, and not as low FARMS as Chantilly). And all those kids would live considerably closer to the new school than kids in western Great Falls now attending Langley.

Ok so you wanna bus kids from Floris to Hutchinson but Herndon ES kids to Westfield? Got it. What a waste of fuel just to balance out demographics and creating attendance islands. Pull out a map and anyone can see that Hutchinson is the epicenter of poverty concentration in Western Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

People on this thread are not acknowledging that Herndon HS northern attendance area is still quite white and wealthy, while the southern Hutchinson site that is where a new high school would be built is where the poor Hispanics are, Unless you want to bring in busing Hutchinson HS, that new high school will be a Lewis tier level high school. The elitists have been questioned so I ask why are some of you so keen on dispersing socioeconomics?

[Anonymous]

The progressives need to take a look at history. With the exception of Stu Gibson, every Democrat has either advocated or quietly supported concentrating poverty, nothing is going to change with this school board, Hutchinson is going to be the amount Vernon High of Western fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People on this thread are not acknowledging that Herndon HS northern attendance area is still quite white and wealthy, while the southern Hutchinson site that is where a new high school would be built is where the poor Hispanics are, Unless you want to bring in busing Hutchinson HS, that new high school will be a Lewis tier level high school. The elitists have been questioned so I ask why are some of you so keen on dispersing socioeconomics?

What's the downside to dispersing socioeconomics? Wouldn't it be better for the entire county to have an even distribution of FARMs so that all schools have significantly high average test scores? This would benefit the rest of the county. Not all of us are lucky to live in Great Falls, Mantua, and Vienna. As it stands, there are only about 5 schools that really steal the show.

Another advantage is that a county-wide redrawing of the boundaries could finally address the overcrowding issues with a fresh slate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this thread are not acknowledging that Herndon HS northern attendance area is still quite white and wealthy, while the southern Hutchinson site that is where a new high school would be built is where the poor Hispanics are, Unless you want to bring in busing Hutchinson HS, that new high school will be a Lewis tier level high school. The elitists have been questioned so I ask why are some of you so keen on dispersing socioeconomics?

What's the downside to dispersing socioeconomics? Wouldn't it be better for the entire county to have an even distribution of FARMs so that all schools have significantly high average test scores? This would benefit the rest of the county. Not all of us are lucky to live in Great Falls, Mantua, and Vienna. As it stands, there are only about 5 schools that really steal the show.

Another advantage is that a county-wide redrawing of the boundaries could finally address the overcrowding issues with a fresh slate.

The downside of dispersing of economics is that it isn’t efficient from a logistical standpoint, just as it is illogical when you have kids in Herndon bused 15 miles to Langley instead of 2 miles to nearby Herndon. They need to go to Herndon when the new western HS is built. It’s expensive, timely, and costly to the environment. I like many others are fine of “natural diversity”, that is when some apartment kids going to otherwise well to do Chantilly/Marshall as of current policy because it’s the closest school if that is what is meant by “dispersing economics”. But what I am not in favor is purposefully busing kids across the county to the achieve socioeconomic balance. If Hutchinson is built it would become the poorest and most disadvantaged school in Western fairfax if it draws from proximity neighborhoods. I’m not ok with busing Crossfield/Fox Mill kids to Hutchinson and Coates/Herndon ES kids to South Lakes just to achieve “balance”. That extra money in fuel and Human Resources can be directed to the classrooml

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this thread are not acknowledging that Herndon HS northern attendance area is still quite white and wealthy, while the southern Hutchinson site that is where a new high school would be built is where the poor Hispanics are, Unless you want to bring in busing Hutchinson HS, that new high school will be a Lewis tier level high school. The elitists have been questioned so I ask why are some of you so keen on dispersing socioeconomics?

What's the downside to dispersing socioeconomics? Wouldn't it be better for the entire county to have an even distribution of FARMs so that all schools have significantly high average test scores? This would benefit the rest of the county. Not all of us are lucky to live in Great Falls, Mantua, and Vienna. As it stands, there are only about 5 schools that really steal the show.

Another advantage is that a county-wide redrawing of the boundaries could finally address the overcrowding issues with a fresh slate.

The downside of dispersing of economics is that it isn’t efficient from a logistical standpoint, just as it is illogical when you have kids in Herndon bused 15 miles to Langley instead of 2 miles to nearby Herndon. They need to go to Herndon when the new western HS is built. It’s expensive, timely, and costly to the environment. I like many others are fine of “natural diversity”, that is when some apartment kids going to otherwise well to do Chantilly/Marshall as of current policy because it’s the closest school if that is what is meant by “dispersing economics”. But what I am not in favor is purposefully busing kids across the county to the achieve socioeconomic balance. If Hutchinson is built it would become the poorest and most disadvantaged school in Western fairfax if it draws from proximity neighborhoods. I’m not ok with busing Crossfield/Fox Mill kids to Hutchinson and Coates/Herndon ES kids to South Lakes just to achieve “balance”. That extra money in fuel and Human Resources can be directed to the classrooml

So much bloviating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this thread are not acknowledging that Herndon HS northern attendance area is still quite white and wealthy, while the southern Hutchinson site that is where a new high school would be built is where the poor Hispanics are, Unless you want to bring in busing Hutchinson HS, that new high school will be a Lewis tier level high school. The elitists have been questioned so I ask why are some of you so keen on dispersing socioeconomics?

What's the downside to dispersing socioeconomics? Wouldn't it be better for the entire county to have an even distribution of FARMs so that all schools have significantly high average test scores? This would benefit the rest of the county. Not all of us are lucky to live in Great Falls, Mantua, and Vienna. As it stands, there are only about 5 schools that really steal the show.

Another advantage is that a county-wide redrawing of the boundaries could finally address the overcrowding issues with a fresh slate.

How do high average test scores help anybody? They do not tell the story. MC and UMC Herndon HS students have high test scores like their counterparts at McLean, Langley, etc. Those high average test scores make SEEM like Langley students are somehow exceptional, but they are not.