Travis and Taylor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else feel like public attitudes on Taylor/Travis may have peaked and be about to start crashing down? I feel like they had kind of peak goodwill after the AFC championship game and people were kind of like "leave them alone! they seem happy! who complains about people being in love?" Like even Charles Barkley was yelling at people for criticizing them.

But after Taylor's kind of weird Grammys appearance, solo, and with the continued questions about Taylor for Travis in LV as the game approaches, I feel this subtle shift in attitudes, like people who two weeks ago would have said "aw they seem happy, good for them" are now saying "she's kind of ridiculous, is this even real, I'm just tired of hearing about it." And now with the new album getting promoted and it looking pretty apparent it's a Joe Alwyn breakup album... I sense the tide is turning.

Probably it won't matter for her in the long run because I don't think her fans will care -- her album will sell, her concerts will sell out. But I'm talking about broader public opinion. I feel like she specifically, and the two of them more broadly, kind of had everyone cheering for them for like one week, but it's over and I think the haters are coming for her, and fast.

I think her PR is working too hard, like the odd pic with Celine Dion backstage after snubbing her. She always acts so hyper and annoying and seems to have zero humility. There are so many big, enduring stars out there who don't behave that way at all, and the contrast is more and more apparent as she ages. Even Miley Cyrus was so much more gracious at the Grammys. She doesn't seem to mature at all and is stuck in high school with the revolving girlfriends click and boyfriend phases.

But they either always had or have gained some gravitas as they got older. Even someone like Madonna, who I don't think of as being particularly wise even now, developed an older, more mature version of herself that she could age into.

l

This is exactly what I have been thinking but haven't been able to put it into words. I see Miley Cryus in a similar light. She has a junvilie personality that will never change but it's certainly evolved as she's gotten older. On the other hand Taylor seems stagnant. I have seen many people around her age range express similar feelings about being stunted so you're analysis might be right in that one.

[Anonymous]

She just made history like most lauded singer ever. I say fly your freak flag girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else feel like public attitudes on Taylor/Travis may have peaked and be about to start crashing down? I feel like they had kind of peak goodwill after the AFC championship game and people were kind of like "leave them alone! they seem happy! who complains about people being in love?" Like even Charles Barkley was yelling at people for criticizing them.

But after Taylor's kind of weird Grammys appearance, solo, and with the continued questions about Taylor for Travis in LV as the game approaches, I feel this subtle shift in attitudes, like people who two weeks ago would have said "aw they seem happy, good for them" are now saying "she's kind of ridiculous, is this even real, I'm just tired of hearing about it." And now with the new album getting promoted and it looking pretty apparent it's a Joe Alwyn breakup album... I sense the tide is turning.

Probably it won't matter for her in the long run because I don't think her fans will care -- her album will sell, her concerts will sell out. But I'm talking about broader public opinion. I feel like she specifically, and the two of them more broadly, kind of had everyone cheering for them for like one week, but it's over and I think the haters are coming for her, and fast.

I think her PR is working too hard, like the odd pic with Celine Dion backstage after snubbing her. She always acts so hyper and annoying and seems to have zero humility. There are so many big, enduring stars out there who don't behave that way at all, and the contrast is more and more apparent as she ages. Even Miley Cyrus was so much more gracious at the Grammys. She doesn't seem to mature at all and is stuck in high school with the revolving girlfriends click and boyfriend phases.

+1, I think she is really struggling to find her footing as a woman approaching her mid-to-late 30s. I don't (and I think a lot of people don't) expect her to "settle down" and I don't care what she does with her private life, if she has kids, etc. Like it just doesn't matter to me one way or another and there are a lot of female celebs who didn't do any of that and who I have only appreciated more as they've aged. But they either always had or have gained some gravitas as they got older. Even someone like Madonna, who I don't think of as being particularly wise even now, developed an older, more mature version of herself that she could age into.

I am right on the cusp between Gen X and Millenials, and I actually think this might reflect how millennials struggle more in general with maturity. They invented the phrase "adulting" to describe doing normal stuff like paying bills, holding a job, or voting. Gen X did not pathologize maturity in this way. They just got on with it, and the aura of cynicism and irony helped to cover up any discomfort they felt with becoming actual adults. As someone who is smack dab in between, I feel the pull of both approaches, but I think at some point you have to just give in and grow up. I'm in my 40s and I do think I stayed a bit stunted for longer than most Gen Xers do. But by my mid-30s I was like "okay, time together my $hit together." Taylor's right at that moment now, I am curious to see what happens.

To offer a counterbalance to Madonna being a figure of maturity, at 34 Madonna released her controversial, erotica, coffee table book Sex. So it can be argued that Taylor still has time before she gains gravitas.

I mean, I don't think Madonna has ever had gravitas.

But I actually think releasing that book (and the documentary that was part of it, I think following her on her Erotica tour) WAS Madonna transitioning to a more "mature" version of herself. That book and the media tour around it was very much about Madonna pushing something of an agenda, around her image and around the discussion of sex generally. It came out in 1992 and wasn't just Madonna being like "look at me, I have sex." Whether you agree with her or not, the book/doc was making a political statement about sex and sexuality. It incorporated a much more expansive view of sex than had been considered mainstream before that, including a focus on sex for pleasure as opposed to procreation, the use of sex toys and embrace of fetishes, as well as a much more inclusive attitude about non-heteronormative sex. It was scandalous, and she rode that scandal, but there actually WAS a maturity to it that was about more than just Madonna talking about her own life. The book which very carefully avoided any hint of pedophilia, bestiality, or using religious iconography in any of its erotic images, also raised questions about free speech as some states attempted to ban it.

If you look at interviews with Madonna from that time, she speaks pretty passionately about the project in a way that is very mature and even intellectual at times.

Maturity isn't narrowly defined as "doing things I approve of." It has to do with being truly accountable for your behavior, and also understanding the role you play in the world and having self-awareness about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else feel like public attitudes on Taylor/Travis may have peaked and be about to start crashing down? I feel like they had kind of peak goodwill after the AFC championship game and people were kind of like "leave them alone! they seem happy! who complains about people being in love?" Like even Charles Barkley was yelling at people for criticizing them.

But after Taylor's kind of weird Grammys appearance, solo, and with the continued questions about Taylor for Travis in LV as the game approaches, I feel this subtle shift in attitudes, like people who two weeks ago would have said "aw they seem happy, good for them" are now saying "she's kind of ridiculous, is this even real, I'm just tired of hearing about it." And now with the new album getting promoted and it looking pretty apparent it's a Joe Alwyn breakup album... I sense the tide is turning.

Probably it won't matter for her in the long run because I don't think her fans will care -- her album will sell, her concerts will sell out. But I'm talking about broader public opinion. I feel like she specifically, and the two of them more broadly, kind of had everyone cheering for them for like one week, but it's over and I think the haters are coming for her, and fast.

I think her PR is working too hard, like the odd pic with Celine Dion backstage after snubbing her. She always acts so hyper and annoying and seems to have zero humility. There are so many big, enduring stars out there who don't behave that way at all, and the contrast is more and more apparent as she ages. Even Miley Cyrus was so much more gracious at the Grammys. She doesn't seem to mature at all and is stuck in high school with the revolving girlfriends click and boyfriend phases.

+1, I think she is really struggling to find her footing as a woman approaching her mid-to-late 30s. I don't (and I think a lot of people don't) expect her to "settle down" and I don't care what she does with her private life, if she has kids, etc. Like it just doesn't matter to me one way or another and there are a lot of female celebs who didn't do any of that and who I have only appreciated more as they've aged. But they either always had or have gained some gravitas as they got older. Even someone like Madonna, who I don't think of as being particularly wise even now, developed an older, more mature version of herself that she could age into.

I am right on the cusp between Gen X and Millenials, and I actually think this might reflect how millennials struggle more in general with maturity. They invented the phrase "adulting" to describe doing normal stuff like paying bills, holding a job, or voting. Gen X did not pathologize maturity in this way. They just got on with it, and the aura of cynicism and irony helped to cover up any discomfort they felt with becoming actual adults. As someone who is smack dab in between, I feel the pull of both approaches, but I think at some point you have to just give in and grow up. I'm in my 40s and I do think I stayed a bit stunted for longer than most Gen Xers do. But by my mid-30s I was like "okay, time together my $hit together." Taylor's right at that moment now, I am curious to see what happens.

To offer a counterbalance to Madonna being a figure of maturity, at 34 Madonna released her controversial, erotica, coffee table book Sex. So it can be argued that Taylor still has time before she gains gravitas.

I mean, I don't think Madonna has ever had gravitas.

But I actually think releasing that book (and the documentary that was part of it, I think following her on her Erotica tour) WAS Madonna transitioning to a more "mature" version of herself. That book and the media tour around it was very much about Madonna pushing something of an agenda, around her image and around the discussion of sex generally. It came out in 1992 and wasn't just Madonna being like "look at me, I have sex." Whether you agree with her or not, the book/doc was making a political statement about sex and sexuality. It incorporated a much more expansive view of sex than had been considered mainstream before that, including a focus on sex for pleasure as opposed to procreation, the use of sex toys and embrace of fetishes, as well as a much more inclusive attitude about non-heteronormative sex. It was scandalous, and she rode that scandal, but there actually WAS a maturity to it that was about more than just Madonna talking about her own life. The book which very carefully avoided any hint of pedophilia, bestiality, or using religious iconography in any of its erotic images, also raised questions about free speech as some states attempted to ban it.

If you look at interviews with Madonna from that time, she speaks pretty passionately about the project in a way that is very mature and even intellectual at times.

Maturity isn't narrowly defined as "doing things I approve of." It has to do with being truly accountable for your behavior, and also understanding the role you play in the world and having self-awareness about it.

PP. That's fair. I appreciate your well-reasoned response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She just made history like most lauded singer ever. I say fly your freak flag girl.

Most commercially-lauded. This is like saying Marvel movies are amazing because they bring in tons of money. We all know Grammy Awards often do not go to the most deserving artists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She just made history like most lauded singer ever. I say fly your freak flag girl.

Most commercially-lauded. This is like saying Marvel movies are amazing because they bring in tons of money. We all know Grammy Awards often do not go to the most deserving artists.

Okay Shawn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She just made history like most lauded singer ever. I say fly your freak flag girl.

Most commercially-lauded. This is like saying Marvel movies are amazing because they bring in tons of money. We all know Grammy Awards often do not go to the most deserving artists.

I'm not a Marvel fan, but if the movies sucked, why would people see them? Just because you don't like them doesn't mean other people don't.

[Anonymous]

Rumor is he will pop the question at the Taylor bowl this weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rumor is he will pop the question at the Taylor bowl this weekend.

I don't think this will happen, but if it did, I would die of cringe and I don't think I would be the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rumor is he will pop the question at the Taylor bowl this weekend.

No -- that is Paris in May on her tour. No way he will take away from Superbowl.

[Anonymous]

I feel bad for Joe Alwyn. He posted about Gaza on her birthday, because he was sure his instagram would get some attention. She seriously downgraded with that jock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So to this middle aged mom: another album that shades an ex in cruel ways.

yup! I feel bad for Joe. He hasn't said one word about her. I don't think he was built for Taylor's level of fame and that's okay. Their relationship during covid was different. I didn't believe she was trying to get back at him with Travis and Matty but I definitely do now.

He dodged a bullet. At this point she just seems really creepy.

Sooo creepy!! look at the track list.

https://twitter.com/PopBase/status/1754683242681430394

Wow, I assumed that was a spoof track list but it's apparently legit. That's... a lot. For people who don't want to click the link:

Fortnight (ft. Post Malone)
The Tortured Poets Department
My Boy Only Breaks His Favorite Toys
Down Bad
So Long, London
But Daddy I Love Him
Fresh Out the Slammer
Florida!!! (ft. Florence + The Machine)
Guilty as Sin?
What’s Afraid of Little Old Me?
I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can)
loml
I Can Do It With a Broken Heart
The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived
The Alchemy
Clara Bow
The Manuscipt (Bonus Track)

Ouch

[Anonymous]

Stop. You’re losing me. Stop. You’re losing me…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rumor is he will pop the question at the Taylor bowl this weekend.

That is not happening. He's in the superbowl. He takes that seriously. He’s not worrying about proposals this week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rumor is he will pop the question at the Taylor bowl this weekend.

Never happen. If they win, he would never take the spotlight away from it being a team accomplishment. If an engagement happens, it would be private or maybe on her tour.