FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there any gatehouse employees here that can fill us in on the delay in naming the boundary review advisory committee members?

For such an important committee the continued delay is infuriating.

They shared at a community boundary meeting last week that they told committee members that if they weren’t comfortable being publicly named then they would thank them for their interest but that needed to drop out of the committee because being named is a requirement. They are probably now waiting on backfilling roles of anyone who dropped out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

If you have proof that they hand selected all the applicants I would like to see it. There is lots of conspiracy on this board and it's difficult to know what is opinion vs actual fact. So unless there is proof vs conjecture I'm putting your response in the opinion bucket.

I think it’s crystal clear that they hand selected certain special interest groups. Whether they randomized those selections is not even a question - by definition they chose what special interests get representation.

You calling it opinion doesn’t change that fact.

Then you don't have proof. Good to know. "I think"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

If you have proof that they hand selected all the applicants I would like to see it. There is lots of conspiracy on this board and it's difficult to know what is opinion vs actual fact. So unless there is proof vs conjecture I'm putting your response in the opinion bucket.

I think it’s crystal clear that they hand selected certain special interest groups. Whether they randomized those selections is not even a question - by definition they chose what special interests get representation.

You calling it opinion doesn’t change that fact.

Then you don't have proof. Good to know. "I think"

Fcps reported that they’ve selected special interest committee members separate from the purportedly random picks.

Do you realize how dumb you sound going to the mats on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

If you have proof that they hand selected all the applicants I would like to see it. There is lots of conspiracy on this board and it's difficult to know what is opinion vs actual fact. So unless there is proof vs conjecture I'm putting your response in the opinion bucket.

I think it’s crystal clear that they hand selected certain special interest groups. Whether they randomized those selections is not even a question - by definition they chose what special interests get representation.

You calling it opinion doesn’t change that fact.

Then you don't have proof. Good to know. "I think"

Fcps reported that they’ve selected special interest committee members separate from the purportedly random picks.

Do you realize how dumb you sound going to the mats on this?

Then link where that information is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Gross" are those who want to increase their property values at the cost of kids stuck in unfavorable facilities and low-quality programs. Talk about cognitive dissonance. That group is likely to otherwise support free markets and small government intervention, yet in this case are desperately seeking for the school system to continue enacting policies that inflate and protect their real estate investments. It's all written in the MGT consultant survey comments. It's hard to empathize with those who only have dollar signs in their eyes.

Similarly, differences in programs have little to do with boundaries. FCPS does not have to change boundaries to offer AP at all its schools and replace IB programs that have been unsuccessful at all but a few schools where they are offered. And the specialized Academy programs typically have been added to schools with more, not less, poverty.

The HS academies are a 50/50 split. Chantilly, Fairfax, and Marshall are solidly desirable UMC pyramids. Falls Church, Edison, and West Potomac less so, but in any case there isn't a clear preference for attractive academy programs at undesirable high schools.

At the ES level, desirable elementary language immersion magnets lean towards desirable pyramids: Great Falls ES (Langley) with Japanese, Kent Gardens ES (McLean) with French, Orange Hunt (West Springfield) with German, and Powell (Centerville) with Korean. Rose Hill ES, Herndon ES, Groveton ES, and most of the others with Spanish immersion aren't in desirable pyramids and hence aren't functioning as an attractive draw for families like the other languages do.

The Bucknell ES Montessori plan and the Lewis Leadership academy appeared to be the first deliberate special programs with the specific intention to attract families. However the Montessori is on hold and the Lewis academy has not received the "real" academy treatment where it is advertised and funded. It's fair to say that FCPS has not significantly sought to place high-quality programs in high-poverty pyramids.

Falls Church also has an academy, and Marshall was not as well regarded as it is now when it first got an academy. They have never given a "tippy top" high school an academy program.

The elementary school situation is a little different, because it's more likely that highly regarded elementary schools, by dint of their smaller boundaries, can end up under-enrolled and then candidates for special programs.

In any event, the bigger question remains the uncertainty about what FCPS means when it talks about providing "equitable access to programming." I think people assume they care about things like Lewis not having a full menu of AP courses or Mount Vernon not being able to offer multiple sessions of advanced math classes, not the fact that Langley, McLean, Madison, Oakton, and Woodson can't offer the same academy classes on site as Edison or Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they move a whole elementary school, how is that breaking up the community?

I feel that the formerly-zoned Lewis families are throwing every excuse out there.

You can't claim South County is ok, but not Lewis on the basis of community. Especially if they move the whole neighborhood or school.

You seriously think each little elementary school is a sealed community with no interaction with anyone outside of it? My kids are friends with kids from all over our pyramid, not just kids from our elementary school. My kids are now in HS and I do have a 2028 kid who'd be moved his junior year, which I desperately do not want. My older kid is in her junior year and it's a crucial year in the college application timeline. They've literally had a a decade of engagement with other kids from across schools in our pyramid, through church, sports, and other activities. You would indeed be breaking up a community by moving just one elementary school.

This is great news; the transition to Lewis will be easier then. You know so many people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they move a whole elementary school, how is that breaking up the community?

I feel that the formerly-zoned Lewis families are throwing every excuse out there.

You can't claim South County is ok, but not Lewis on the basis of community. Especially if they move the whole neighborhood or school.

You seriously think each little elementary school is a sealed community with no interaction with anyone outside of it? My kids are friends with kids from all over our pyramid, not just kids from our elementary school. My kids are now in HS and I do have a 2028 kid who'd be moved his junior year, which I desperately do not want. My older kid is in her junior year and it's a crucial year in the college application timeline. They've literally had a a decade of engagement with other kids from across schools in our pyramid, through church, sports, and other activities. You would indeed be breaking up a community by moving just one elementary school.

What about the kids that can't afford a 4-year school? Your privilege is showing with this response. Just like another poster that complains about the drive the kids have to make in their own cars. Another privilege complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they move a whole elementary school, how is that breaking up the community?

I feel that the formerly-zoned Lewis families are throwing every excuse out there.

You can't claim South County is ok, but not Lewis on the basis of community. Especially if they move the whole neighborhood or school.

You seriously think each little elementary school is a sealed community with no interaction with anyone outside of it? My kids are friends with kids from all over our pyramid, not just kids from our elementary school. My kids are now in HS and I do have a 2028 kid who'd be moved his junior year, which I desperately do not want. My older kid is in her junior year and it's a crucial year in the college application timeline. They've literally had a a decade of engagement with other kids from across schools in our pyramid, through church, sports, and other activities. You would indeed be breaking up a community by moving just one elementary school.

What about the kids that can't afford a 4-year school? Your privilege is showing with this response. Just like another poster that complains about the drive the kids have to make in their own cars. Another privilege complaint.

DP. What are you going on about? You seem to want to solve all the world's problems and have weirdly settled on implying that changing some school boundaries will do that. Guess again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they move a whole elementary school, how is that breaking up the community?

I feel that the formerly-zoned Lewis families are throwing every excuse out there.

You can't claim South County is ok, but not Lewis on the basis of community. Especially if they move the whole neighborhood or school.

You seriously think each little elementary school is a sealed community with no interaction with anyone outside of it? My kids are friends with kids from all over our pyramid, not just kids from our elementary school. My kids are now in HS and I do have a 2028 kid who'd be moved his junior year, which I desperately do not want. My older kid is in her junior year and it's a crucial year in the college application timeline. They've literally had a a decade of engagement with other kids from across schools in our pyramid, through church, sports, and other activities. You would indeed be breaking up a community by moving just one elementary school.

What about the kids that can't afford a 4-year school? Your privilege is showing with this response. Just like another poster that complains about the drive the kids have to make in their own cars. Another privilege complaint.

What about them? What does that have to do with the topic? It's not anyone's responsibility to get other people's kids to 4- year colleges. Strange post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

Why is this so complicated?

They have a boundary review advisory committee with two categories of members: (1) two representatives from each of 24 pyramids; and (2) additional appointed members consisting of teachers, staff, and other community members (many sitting on other existing FCPS committees or representatives of groups often represented on other committees).

They have said several times that the first group was randomly selected. To date, no one has provided any credible evidence that was not the case and, were those representations revealed to be false, it would clearly be the final nail in the coffin with respect to Reid's tenure as superintendent. It would be an irredeemable breach of trust with FCPS stakeholders. Suggesting that this group was not randomly selected with no evidence to support that assertion is unfair. Claiming that FCPS would somehow hide behind attorney-client privilege with respect to the selection of these members also seems ludicrous, as these members weren't selected to provide legal advice.

They have made no similar claims with respect to the appointed members. You can complain about having some of the "usual suspects" represented on the committee when they may prove to be rubber stamps for FCPS leadership, and that's fair game, but you can't claim FCPS misrepresented how these members were selected.

In any event, the committee isn't really going to making the decisions; they are just one more foil (like Thru Consulting) that FCPS leadership and the School Board will fall back to claim recommendations were developed and vetted with others. But as much as silly Karl Frisch and the other School Board members would like, the buck stops with them. They will have to own every single boundary change they approve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

Why is this so complicated?

They have a boundary review advisory committee with two categories of members: (1) two representatives from each of 24 pyramids; and (2) additional appointed members consisting of teachers, staff, and other community members (many sitting on other existing FCPS committees or representatives of groups often represented on other committees).

They have said several times that the first group was randomly selected. To date, no one has provided any credible evidence that was not the case and, were those representations revealed to be false, it would clearly be the final nail in the coffin with respect to Reid's tenure as superintendent. It would be an irredeemable breach of trust with FCPS stakeholders. Suggesting that this group was not randomly selected with no evidence to support that assertion is unfair. Claiming that FCPS would somehow hide behind attorney-client privilege with respect to the selection of these members also seems ludicrous, as these members weren't selected to provide legal advice.

They have made no similar claims with respect to the appointed members. You can complain about having some of the "usual suspects" represented on the committee when they may prove to be rubber stamps for FCPS leadership, and that's fair game, but you can't claim FCPS misrepresented how these members were selected.

In any event, the committee isn't really going to making the decisions; they are just one more foil (like Thru Consulting) that FCPS leadership and the School Board will fall back to claim recommendations were developed and vetted with others. But as much as silly Karl Frisch and the other School Board members would like, the buck stops with them. They will have to own every single boundary change they approve.

The only reason to use a law firm to select members is to shield the whole process behind privilege

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did FCPS even slightly consider that "selecting" pyramid members for a committee would mean that the members' neighborhoods would have an advantage over others?
Do they not have a lick of common sense?

How else should they select people for a committee spanning this large of an area?

DP. For starters, they shouldn’t populate such a critical committee that will be making recommendations with hand-picked special interest group members. Not that they’ve even disclosed which special interest groups they’ve included.

Democracy dies in the darkness.

Democracy is dead, but you still didn't answer the question. They limited and selected people who applied from all the various locations. How else do you manage something this big.

I am very skeptical about the claims that it was random. My understanding is that the legal department “randomly” selected participants.

Hmmm, I wonder why they had lawyers do it?

I’d it because the lawyers are the only gatehouse employees who know how to use Excel? Of course not.

Is it because they will try to hide behind attorney client privilege when the public demands documents related to the selection?

A better question than yours is why have the committee in the first place if they are just hand selecting special interest committee members?

Why is this so complicated?

They have a boundary review advisory committee with two categories of members: (1) two representatives from each of 24 pyramids; and (2) additional appointed members consisting of teachers, staff, and other community members (many sitting on other existing FCPS committees or representatives of groups often represented on other committees).

They have said several times that the first group was randomly selected. To date, no one has provided any credible evidence that was not the case and, were those representations revealed to be false, it would clearly be the final nail in the coffin with respect to Reid's tenure as superintendent. It would be an irredeemable breach of trust with FCPS stakeholders. Suggesting that this group was not randomly selected with no evidence to support that assertion is unfair. Claiming that FCPS would somehow hide behind attorney-client privilege with respect to the selection of these members also seems ludicrous, as these members weren't selected to provide legal advice.

They have made no similar claims with respect to the appointed members. You can complain about having some of the "usual suspects" represented on the committee when they may prove to be rubber stamps for FCPS leadership, and that's fair game, but you can't claim FCPS misrepresented how these members were selected.

In any event, the committee isn't really going to making the decisions; they are just one more foil (like Thru Consulting) that FCPS leadership and the School Board will fall back to claim recommendations were developed and vetted with others. But as much as silly Karl Frisch and the other School Board members would like, the buck stops with them. They will have to own every single boundary change they approve.

The only reason to use a law firm to select members is to shield the whole process behind privilege

They have made statements about how members were selected. Just because you involve lawyers in decision-making doesn't mean those communications are privileged (the communications have to relate to seeking legal advice) and when you start making public statements about the subject matter to which the communications relate you run a high risk of waiving any privilege that does exist.

It's a common misperception that a client can claim attorney-client privilege any time a lawyer gets involved. That is not the case.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't matter. You have 24 pyramids. I checked a couple of pyramids. Each had 6 elementary schools. So, that leaves four neighborhoods without representation. Is this equity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they move a whole elementary school, how is that breaking up the community?

I feel that the formerly-zoned Lewis families are throwing every excuse out there.

You can't claim South County is ok, but not Lewis on the basis of community. Especially if they move the whole neighborhood or school.

You seriously think each little elementary school is a sealed community with no interaction with anyone outside of it? My kids are friends with kids from all over our pyramid, not just kids from our elementary school. My kids are now in HS and I do have a 2028 kid who'd be moved his junior year, which I desperately do not want. My older kid is in her junior year and it's a crucial year in the college application timeline. They've literally had a a decade of engagement with other kids from across schools in our pyramid, through church, sports, and other activities. You would indeed be breaking up a community by moving just one elementary school.

What about the kids that can't afford a 4-year school? Your privilege is showing with this response. Just like another poster that complains about the drive the kids have to make in their own cars. Another privilege complaint.

What about them? What does that have to do with the topic? It's not anyone's responsibility to get other people's kids to 4- year colleges. Strange post.

Not a strange post. Why should one family's concern over getting accepted into a 4 year school trump another family's concern about getting access to higher level math classes and more elective options. The kid worried about getting into a 4 year school still has that option; the latter doesn't. You can't create a class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter. You have 24 pyramids. I checked a couple of pyramids. Each had 6 elementary schools. So, that leaves four neighborhoods without representation. Is this equity?

Each elementary school could serve multiple neighborhoods or School Planning Areas. The SPAs are the smallest components that get tracked and may be potentially reassigned. Do you want a committee member from each SPA? The BRAC would then be somewhere between the size of the Senate and the House of Representatives.