Root cause of issues at MOCO schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

When did Gaithersburg move to the east county? Or are you defining the east county as, everything east of I-270?

When did PP mention Gaithersburg? Also, you do realize QO is in Gaithersburg and it’s a great school. Kentlands and Lakelands—well off neighborhoods—are also in Gaithersburg. Finally, Rachel Carson ES is in Gaithersburg and is a great school, despite being overcrowded. Why are so many of you convinced Gaithersburg is uniformly a mess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

When did Gaithersburg move to the east county? Or are you defining the east county as, everything east of I-270?

When did PP mention Gaithersburg? Also, you do realize QO is in Gaithersburg and it’s a great school. Kentlands and Lakelands—well off neighborhoods—are also in Gaithersburg. Finally, Rachel Carson ES is in Gaithersburg and is a great school, despite being overcrowded. Why are so many of you convinced Gaithersburg is uniformly a mess?

Gaithersburg is not uniformly a mess. However, there are parts of Gaithersburg where there are a lot of people who are poor. Does the top PP think that the people in these areas are "subidizing all of Central Office and the east county"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd bet a small, nimble district could handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMS better than a big, giant county district like Montgomery or Fairfax.
At least Fairfax does not have a F'd up curriculum for all of it's non-magnet students.

How about 18% ESOL and 35% FARMs?

A small district with 35% FARMs would be a district that didn't have enough money to handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMs well.

No school or government or budget can compare to two responsible parents with jobs raising their children right.

What question does your post answer?

I'd say it answers OP's question and all the fluff about ESOl and FARMS. My poor immigrant parents who didn't speak english and didn't receive free lunches or English tutors in grade school in America had two responsible parents who actively raised their children. Everyone learned english, worked hard, paid taxes, stayed in school, graduated, got full-time jobs, never were incarcerated, never on the dole.

I think you are probably dramatically underestimating the amount of assistance your parents and grandparents received, PP, and how quickly they acquired English. https://news.wisc.edu/study-debunks-myth-that-early-immigrants-quickly-learned-english/

That's hilarious, because my German-speaking father was sent home from kindergarten with a note saying, "Please return once you learn English." So he did and returns in 4 mos as a 6 yo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

When did Gaithersburg move to the east county? Or are you defining the east county as, everything east of I-270?

When did PP mention Gaithersburg? Also, you do realize QO is in Gaithersburg and it’s a great school. Kentlands and Lakelands—well off neighborhoods—are also in Gaithersburg. Finally, Rachel Carson ES is in Gaithersburg and is a great school, despite being overcrowded. Why are so many of you convinced Gaithersburg is uniformly a mess?

Who is bring up Gaithersburg and can't tell it is on the west half of Montgomery County Maryland? C2.0 didn't cover must geography but come on...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

The percentage of students in ESOL decreases because students learn English.

Elementary schools overall: FARMS 39.3%, Hispanic 32.3%, ESOL 25.3%
Middle schools overall: FARMS 32.7%, Hispanic 29.2%, ESOL 8.9%
High schools overall: FARMS 27.0%, Hispanic 29.5%, ESOL 11.2%

I'm not seeing a drop off a cliff here. I am seeing a student population that is increasingly poor and Hispanic (a well-known fact) - or do you think that poor and Hispanic students also drop out between fifth grade and sixth grade?

Are you trying to use percentages to show the quantity of something is changing. Yikes. Must be C2.0 math.

?

If poor students and Hispanic students were dropping out in great numbers, then the percent of poor students and Hispanic students would decrease -- unless everybody else were similarly dropping out.

16yo to 21yo drop-outs have nothing to do with the PK-8 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd bet a small, nimble district could handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMS better than a big, giant county district like Montgomery or Fairfax.
At least Fairfax does not have a F'd up curriculum for all of it's non-magnet students.

How about 18% ESOL and 35% FARMs?

A small district with 35% FARMs would be a district that didn't have enough money to handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMs well.

No school or government or budget can compare to two responsible parents with jobs raising their children right.

What question does your post answer?

I'd say it answers OP's question and all the fluff about ESOl and FARMS. My poor immigrant parents who didn't speak english and didn't receive free lunches or English tutors in grade school in America had two responsible parents who actively raised their children. Everyone learned english, worked hard, paid taxes, stayed in school, graduated, got full-time jobs, never were incarcerated, never on the dole.

I think you are probably dramatically underestimating the amount of assistance your parents and grandparents received, PP, and how quickly they acquired English. https://news.wisc.edu/study-debunks-myth-that-early-immigrants-quickly-learned-english/

That's hilarious, because my German-speaking father was sent home from kindergarten with a note saying, "Please return once you learn English." So he did and returns in 4 mos as a 6 yo.

Where did he live and when did this happen? I’ve heard it before, but none of my relatives (immigrants who came from Russia, Malta, and Japan in the 1920s to the NYC area) say they remember this happening. I’m not doubting you; I’m just curious. That said, they all taught themselves English; none remember having dedicated aides in the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

whether a public school system is county-run or city-run or village-run across this whole country is not mainly or at all due to racial segregation in places the first half of the 20th century.

If you like big gov't you like county run - can slosh around more money and do more politically

If you want localized gov't you do city run.

If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

Then why are Virginia schools also county-run? Georgia? North Carolina? I mean, seriously. You don't know what you're talking about.

I learned a lot in the last year and time and time again my friends in City run, smaller districts don't even bother going private unless their kid has issues.
Only huge county systems with 2000 student high schools and tons of schools muck everything up for everyone.

I went to a large HS (Westlake in Austin, TX) and so did my wife (Arrowhead HS in Hartland, WI). Never had the budget or large underperforming student base that MoCo and LA have to try to deal with. Both were single-high school districts, albeit large HSs.

I do wonder if Long Beach Poly pyramid in LA suffers from bad K-8 curricula the way MCPS W schools do. LBP would kick Whitman/Churchill/Wooton butt anytime in academics and certainly athletics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

whether a public school system is county-run or city-run or village-run across this whole country is not mainly or at all due to racial segregation in places the first half of the 20th century.

If you like big gov't you like county run - can slosh around more money and do more politically

If you want localized gov't you do city run.

If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

Then why are Virginia schools also county-run? Georgia? North Carolina? I mean, seriously. You don't know what you're talking about.

I learned a lot in the last year and time and time again my friends in City run, smaller districts don't even bother going private unless their kid has issues.
Only huge county systems with 2000 student high schools and tons of schools muck everything up for everyone.

I went to a large HS (Westlake in Austin, TX) and so did my wife (Arrowhead HS in Hartland, WI). Never had the budget or large underperforming student base that MoCo and LA have to try to deal with. Both were single-high school districts, albeit large HSs.

I do wonder if Long Beach Poly pyramid in LA suffers from bad K-8 curricula the way MCPS W schools do. LBP would kick Whitman/Churchill/Wooton butt anytime in academics and certainly athletics.

Proof about Long Beach Poly? I just looked it up and it’s a good school, but the W schools are ranked higher. That’s on Niche. LBP is unranked on US News.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

That change isn’t due to drop outs. It’s due to a bubble in younger children. That hump will move along to HS in future years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's hilarious, because my German-speaking father was sent home from kindergarten with a note saying, "Please return once you learn English." So he did and returns in 4 mos as a 6 yo.

Yes, children do learn languages quickly. True then, also true now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest and youngest is almost a decade apart in age. I will say MCPS has seriously slid downhill from where it was 10 years ago. My oldest received a decent education at a W school. We are now considering private for my youngest. The privates as far as class options, class size, and positivity in the school climate just seemed like a happier place to go to school when we toured them. Curriculum has a higher standard and they focus more on developing basic foundations with proven curriculums vs. the nightmare 2.0 debacle. There is also no need for wasted school days on PARCC instruction and assessments.

How much time did your oldest spend on MSA instruction and assessments?

Not as much as PARCC and the MSA was paper and pencil. With PARCC, the computers sometimes crash and loose the child's answers.

Really? My kid spent way more time on the MSAs than my younger kid spent on the PARCCs. Especially MSA prep.

Schools might have different prep plans. Our middle school was insane about the amount of class time preparing for PARCC.

I must add, there was a principal change between MSA and PARCC transition so that could also be the issue. The last principal could have been more focussed on trying to bump up scores for tests vs. actual student engagement and learning than the first.

I do think teaching to the test vs. teaching students to learn and retain knowledge long past the test is part of the problem with MCPS. The non-existent curriculum is the other. MCPS doesn't know what pathway to choose and students have paid the price. For my kids, I saw issues early on with 2.0 so I bought textbooks and workbooks of proven curriculums to fill in gaps at home. Even in our W school cluster, so many families didn't realize the need to do so that my children easily outperformed them in school.

I was working in bethesda in 2009-2016. The first couple years everyone was happy, honky dorey about MCPS and such "good schools." Then Common Core started and the C2.0 worksheets, portals, curricula on the fly. My male and female co-workers with kids age 6-13 changed their tune fast and many went to catholic schools or started hardcore supplementing or getting tutors. Many had kids on either side of the "new curriculum" and were pissed off. The families that graduated class of 2018 or earlier were silently happy and relieved.

My 2018 Grad was hit with 2.0 for high school math. The teachers kept to their old textbooks and old lesson plans. For students who xid not supplement, they were not taught material that MCPS held them accountable for. Every year, the curriculum wasn't being written fast enough for teachers to adnusr.

Liar.
HS doesn't use 2.0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My oldest and youngest is almost a decade apart in age. I will say MCPS has seriously slid downhill from where it was 10 years ago. My oldest received a decent education at a W school. We are now considering private for my youngest. The privates as far as class options, class size, and positivity in the school climate just seemed like a happier place to go to school when we toured them. Curriculum has a higher standard and they focus more on developing basic foundations with proven curriculums vs. the nightmare 2.0 debacle. There is also no need for wasted school days on PARCC instruction and assessments.

How much time did your oldest spend on MSA instruction and assessments?

Not as much as PARCC and the MSA was paper and pencil. With PARCC, the computers sometimes crash and loose the child's answers.

Really? My kid spent way more time on the MSAs than my younger kid spent on the PARCCs. Especially MSA prep.

Schools might have different prep plans. Our middle school was insane about the amount of class time preparing for PARCC.

I must add, there was a principal change between MSA and PARCC transition so that could also be the issue. The last principal could have been more focussed on trying to bump up scores for tests vs. actual student engagement and learning than the first.

I do think teaching to the test vs. teaching students to learn and retain knowledge long past the test is part of the problem with MCPS. The non-existent curriculum is the other. MCPS doesn't know what pathway to choose and students have paid the price. For my kids, I saw issues early on with 2.0 so I bought textbooks and workbooks of proven curriculums to fill in gaps at home. Even in our W school cluster, so many families didn't realize the need to do so that my children easily outperformed them in school.

I was working in bethesda in 2009-2016. The first couple years everyone was happy, honky dorey about MCPS and such "good schools." Then Common Core started and the C2.0 worksheets, portals, curricula on the fly. My male and female co-workers with kids age 6-13 changed their tune fast and many went to catholic schools or started hardcore supplementing or getting tutors. Many had kids on either side of the "new curriculum" and were pissed off. The families that graduated class of 2018 or earlier were silently happy and relieved.

My 2018 Grad was hit with 2.0 for high school math. The teachers kept to their old textbooks and old lesson plans. For students who xid not supplement, they were not taught material that MCPS held them accountable for. Every year, the curriculum wasn't being written fast enough for teachers to adnusr.

I thought 2.0 was a K-8 curriculum. Is it really being used in high school too?

Yes it is (mostly ES). Not used in H.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep. 2018 Grads were the high school guinea pigs. Thank God for free resources like Khan academy online. My kids used it almost every night to fill gaps.

You’re either ignorant or pathological liar. Which one is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. 2018 Grads were the high school guinea pigs. Thank God for free resources like Khan academy online. My kids used it almost every night to fill gaps.

You’re either ignorant or pathological liar. Which one is it?

Wow. You are a prize aren't you?

Perhaps you aren't as well informed as you think, but yes 2.0 was rolled out for high school math: Algebra, Geometry, Algebra 2, & Pre Calculus. Here is a sample of the Algebra 2 curriculum:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/math/high/algebra2/CCSS.Algebra%202.Unit%202.Polynomials.InstructionalFocus%20For%20Parents(1).pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. 2018 Grads were the high school guinea pigs. Thank God for free resources like Khan academy online. My kids used it almost every night to fill gaps.

You’re either ignorant or pathological liar. Which one is it?

Wow. You are a prize aren't you?

Perhaps you aren't as well informed as you think, but yes 2.0 was rolled out for high school math: Algebra, Geometry, Algebra 2, & Pre Calculus. Here is a sample of the Algebra 2 curriculum:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/math/high/algebra2/CCSS.Algebra%202.Unit%202.Polynomials.InstructionalFocus%20For%20Parents(1).pdf

Sorry - to view you will have to cut and paste the link. For some reason the hyperlink doesn't like the .pdf at the end.