Root cause of issues at MOCO schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

[Anonymous]

It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

And, of course, Maryland had formal, de jure segregation in public schools until after Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.

The MCPS central offices are in the building that opened as the first modern high school for black children in 1951. There was no public school past 8th grade for black children in Montgomery County until 1927, when Rockville Colored High opened.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/carver/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

And, of course, Maryland had formal, de jure segregation in public schools until after Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.

The MCPS central offices are in the building that opened as the first modern high school for black children in 1951. There was no public school past 8th grade for black children in Montgomery County until 1927, when Rockville Colored High opened.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/carver/

I had no idea. Thanks for sharing this, OP. This means that within the lifetime of most of our parents, there was no public high school for Black kids in MoCo. No wonder we still have so far to go. The past isn't even really past.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ Oops, I meant thanks for sharing, PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

whether a public school system is county-run or city-run or village-run across this whole country is not mainly or at all due to racial segregation in places the first half of the 20th century.

If you like big gov't you like county run - can slosh around more money and do more politically

If you want localized gov't you do city run.

If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

The percentage of students in ESOL decreases because students learn English.

Elementary schools overall: FARMS 39.3%, Hispanic 32.3%, ESOL 25.3%
Middle schools overall: FARMS 32.7%, Hispanic 29.2%, ESOL 8.9%
High schools overall: FARMS 27.0%, Hispanic 29.5%, ESOL 11.2%

I'm not seeing a drop off a cliff here. I am seeing a student population that is increasingly poor and Hispanic (a well-known fact) - or do you think that poor and Hispanic students also drop out between fifth grade and sixth grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd bet a small, nimble district could handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMS better than a big, giant county district like Montgomery or Fairfax.
At least Fairfax does not have a F'd up curriculum for all of it's non-magnet students.

How about 18% ESOL and 35% FARMs?

A small district with 35% FARMs would be a district that didn't have enough money to handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMs well.

No school or government or budget can compare to two responsible parents with jobs raising their children right.

What question does your post answer?

I'd say it answers OP's question and all the fluff about ESOl and FARMS. My poor immigrant parents who didn't speak english and didn't receive free lunches or English tutors in grade school in America had two responsible parents who actively raised their children. Everyone learned english, worked hard, paid taxes, stayed in school, graduated, got full-time jobs, never were incarcerated, never on the dole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

When did Gaithersburg move to the east county? Or are you defining the east county as, everything east of I-270?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

The percentage of students in ESOL decreases because students learn English.

Elementary schools overall: FARMS 39.3%, Hispanic 32.3%, ESOL 25.3%
Middle schools overall: FARMS 32.7%, Hispanic 29.2%, ESOL 8.9%
High schools overall: FARMS 27.0%, Hispanic 29.5%, ESOL 11.2%

I'm not seeing a drop off a cliff here. I am seeing a student population that is increasingly poor and Hispanic (a well-known fact) - or do you think that poor and Hispanic students also drop out between fifth grade and sixth grade?

Are you trying to use percentages to show the quantity of something is changing. Yikes. Must be C2.0 math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'd say it answers OP's question and all the fluff about ESOl and FARMS. My poor immigrant parents who didn't speak english and didn't receive free lunches or English tutors in grade school in America had two responsible parents who actively raised their children. Everyone learned english, worked hard, paid taxes, stayed in school, graduated, got full-time jobs, never were incarcerated, never on the dole.

Good for your parents. Is that your policy solution? That MCPS should tell its students, "Have two parents who are responsible and actively raise you!" and its parents, "Don't be a single parent, and do be responsible and actively raise your child!"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:they all drop out by end of 8th grade and all that's left is that big bump in scores that MCPS sees in 11th grade testing by demographic. nevermind that some sample groups are considerably smaller.

Not even remotely true and patently racist.

The data is on the MCPS website. The number of ESOL, FARMS and hispanic student in each class grade cliffs off after 8th and 9th grade severely. It is one of many problems the county has to deal with since keeping them as engaged populace and productive workers is imperative to civil society. Dropping out because you are getting poor grades and then turn to cash jobs, teen pregnancies, or making trouble is a real problem in the east side of Montgomery County. THe pressure is there from one's tribe as well. It's the way things are done.

The percentage of students in ESOL decreases because students learn English.

Elementary schools overall: FARMS 39.3%, Hispanic 32.3%, ESOL 25.3%
Middle schools overall: FARMS 32.7%, Hispanic 29.2%, ESOL 8.9%
High schools overall: FARMS 27.0%, Hispanic 29.5%, ESOL 11.2%

I'm not seeing a drop off a cliff here. I am seeing a student population that is increasingly poor and Hispanic (a well-known fact) - or do you think that poor and Hispanic students also drop out between fifth grade and sixth grade?

Are you trying to use percentages to show the quantity of something is changing. Yikes. Must be C2.0 math.

?

If poor students and Hispanic students were dropping out in great numbers, then the percent of poor students and Hispanic students would decrease -- unless everybody else were similarly dropping out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd bet a small, nimble district could handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMS better than a big, giant county district like Montgomery or Fairfax.
At least Fairfax does not have a F'd up curriculum for all of it's non-magnet students.

How about 18% ESOL and 35% FARMs?

A small district with 35% FARMs would be a district that didn't have enough money to handle 20% ESOL and 20% FARMs well.

No school or government or budget can compare to two responsible parents with jobs raising their children right.

What question does your post answer?

I'd say it answers OP's question and all the fluff about ESOl and FARMS. My poor immigrant parents who didn't speak english and didn't receive free lunches or English tutors in grade school in America had two responsible parents who actively raised their children. Everyone learned english, worked hard, paid taxes, stayed in school, graduated, got full-time jobs, never were incarcerated, never on the dole.

I think you are probably dramatically underestimating the amount of assistance your parents and grandparents received, PP, and how quickly they acquired English. https://news.wisc.edu/study-debunks-myth-that-early-immigrants-quickly-learned-english/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to have the discussion around city-based versus county-based school systems without talking about race and integration.

County-based school districts are more common in the southern US, where formal segregation meant you could have a county-wide school without worrying about sending your white child to school with Black kids.

In the North, where formal segregation was not in place, de facto segregation evolved to replace it. This took the form of municipality-level school districts, because neighborhoods and towns were still segregated.

whether a public school system is county-run or city-run or village-run across this whole country is not mainly or at all due to racial segregation in places the first half of the 20th century.

If you like big gov't you like county run - can slosh around more money and do more politically

If you want localized gov't you do city run.

If you have no viable local gov't, no real tax revenue, and no educated populace, the federal or state or large county will take other's tax revenue and use it towards you. Brain drain is prevalent. Chicago schools, Milwaukee schools, LA schools, etc. MoCo is lucky they have such a barbell where the west county can subsidize all of Central Office and the east county.

Then why are Virginia schools also county-run? Georgia? North Carolina? I mean, seriously. You don't know what you're talking about.