why do people prefer AP schools to IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

It would help Alexandria to allow ACPS students to attend TJ and it would help Fairfax to get rid of most of its IB programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is very enlightening. I posted earlier about my experience at IB in Florida. By the tone of the discussion in this thread, I probably wouldn't even be allowed to breath on the glass of the school. We are childless at the moment. I can't imagine how insufferable growing up here must be.

Florida poster. I don't have time to shift through so many pages again to read the details of your school, but I believe you posted several days ago about a magnet experience at an IB school and maybe even a test in school. The eastern portion of the county is functioning in the opposite way of a magnet. It is close to DC, yet it is in decline because the neighborhoods are getting older. Fairfax has put IB in these schools for the past 15-20 years hoping it would revitalize the areas and it has done the opposite. There are just too many IB schools right there. TJ, a test in stem magnet school, is also nearby and sucks a lot of the brightest kids too. The neighborhoods are declining further and people are getting tired of paying additional taxes for additional teachers as well as the IB program. It is a high immigrant and FARM area. Class sizes for middle and high school were increased again last year for everyone about the 3rd time in 10 years. It is the only area of the county with IB schools right next to each other and people are frustrated that the school board cannot admit they made a mistake and fix this area. This is why there is so much frustration about IB. It is a more expensive program, kids aren't using it to the same level as AP, it is not serving the residents well there, and it is a factor in causing class sizes to rise. Their lack of action is prompting people without kids to fight against tax increases because they see the school board as ineffective so the schools are getting low on funding. You don't know all this because you don't live up here. I will not judge your school not knowing enough about it if you will let us handle this local decision. This question seems to come up every month for the past 3 years here and still the school board does nothing.

to Florida poster - it does sometimes appear "insufferable", but the passion and commitment of many parents to education is the fundamental strength of the public schools here. We tolerate and manage to generally remain civil.

I am sure it is nearly the same everywhere these days. I do applaud the commitment of parents here. I can tell you this - despite there being a rank ordering at the end of high school, it has generally not meant much of anything. Nearly everybody from the top to the bottom has done well from my IB class. Even the outliers eventually turned themselves around. My lack of super trying in high school had no impact on my education at the university level. I have consistently smoked kids that did all their homework; to each their own. If I had to do it all over again, I would organize a few more causeway keg parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

You don't seem to understand my comment. First, please recognize that you attended a magnet school in a wealthy area and that IB was probably very good partly because of those things. While I think IB has many merits, I get the feeling that your perception of the program is a little biased based on the fact that you attended school with a lot of high achieving students. Maybe you do recognize this fact, but what I'm asking you to do is to pretend you are a low income family member in a low income district and analyze the program from that angle. My comment was would TC Williams be better served by being an IB school and/or do you think based on your experience of IB that IB is a good accelerated program for high achieving FARM students and high schools with high FARMS ratings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

You don't seem to understand my comment. First, please recognize that you attended a magnet school in a wealthy area and that IB was probably very good partly because of those things. While I think IB has many merits, I get the feeling that your perception of the program is a little biased based on the fact that you attended school with a lot of high achieving students. Maybe you do recognize this fact, but what I'm asking you to do is to pretend you are a low income family member in a low income district and analyze the program from that angle. My comment was would TC Williams be better served by being an IB school and/or do you think based on your experience of IB that IB is a good accelerated program for high achieving FARM students and high schools with high FARMS ratings?

Thanks for your comment. I thought I was transparent about my feelings of my IB program and the demographic that attended it, and also the area where the school was located. As a corollary to that, my parents would have never allowed me to be bused all the way to St. Pete High in south county, where there were multiple reports of problems with the IB students vs. the regular kids. They also had a drive-by or two the year before I enrolled. So, yes, I appreciate that.

I have no idea what FARM even means. I do know that we had a number of kids in my program that were from not so great neighborhoods, and whose parents were not college educated. As I said in my earlier post, everybody from my program has done well.

I haven't once said I understood the dynamic of IB vs. AP here. I was simply commenting on my and my classmates' experience. I think it was an excellent program, and I am glad I did that instead of going to Jesuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

It would help Alexandria to allow ACPS students to attend TJ and it would help Fairfax to get rid of most of its IB programs.

Why would IB at TC Williams help Alexandria to allow ACPS students to attend TJ? They opted out.

FARM means Free And Reduced Meals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

You don't seem to understand my comment. First, please recognize that you attended a magnet school in a wealthy area and that IB was probably very good partly because of those things. While I think IB has many merits, I get the feeling that your perception of the program is a little biased based on the fact that you attended school with a lot of high achieving students. Maybe you do recognize this fact, but what I'm asking you to do is to pretend you are a low income family member in a low income district and analyze the program from that angle. My comment was would TC Williams be better served by being an IB school and/or do you think based on your experience of IB that IB is a good accelerated program for high achieving FARM students and high schools with high FARMS ratings?

Thanks for your comment. I thought I was transparent about my feelings of my IB program and the demographic that attended it, and also the area where the school was located. As a corollary to that, my parents would have never allowed me to be bused all the way to St. Pete High in south county, where there were multiple reports of problems with the IB students vs. the regular kids. They also had a drive-by or two the year before I enrolled. So, yes, I appreciate that.

I have no idea what FARM even means. I do know that we had a number of kids in my program that were from not so great neighborhoods, and whose parents were not college educated. As I said in my earlier post, everybody from my program has done well.

I haven't once said I understood the dynamic of IB vs. AP here. I was simply commenting on my and my classmates' experience. I think it was an excellent program, and I am glad I did that instead of going to Jesuit.

Not exactly. You were commenting on how insufferable things were in Fairfax which was quite a judgment from you about others to make from someone who doesn't understand the dynamics of this thread. This is your quote I believe. "I probably wouldn't even be allowed to breath on the glass of the school. We are childless at the moment. I can't imagine how insufferable growing up here must be."

[Anonymous]

STEM PhD here, did IB in high school and it better prepared me for a STEM career than even college. Way more writing in STEM than people think. Also gave me a fantastic background in the humanities that I think rivals most college courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

You don't seem to understand my comment. First, please recognize that you attended a magnet school in a wealthy area and that IB was probably very good partly because of those things. While I think IB has many merits, I get the feeling that your perception of the program is a little biased based on the fact that you attended school with a lot of high achieving students. Maybe you do recognize this fact, but what I'm asking you to do is to pretend you are a low income family member in a low income district and analyze the program from that angle. My comment was would TC Williams be better served by being an IB school and/or do you think based on your experience of IB that IB is a good accelerated program for high achieving FARM students and high schools with high FARMS ratings?

Thanks for your comment. I thought I was transparent about my feelings of my IB program and the demographic that attended it, and also the area where the school was located. As a corollary to that, my parents would have never allowed me to be bused all the way to St. Pete High in south county, where there were multiple reports of problems with the IB students vs. the regular kids. They also had a drive-by or two the year before I enrolled. So, yes, I appreciate that.

I have no idea what FARM even means. I do know that we had a number of kids in my program that were from not so great neighborhoods, and whose parents were not college educated. As I said in my earlier post, everybody from my program has done well.

I haven't once said I understood the dynamic of IB vs. AP here. I was simply commenting on my and my classmates' experience. I think it was an excellent program, and I am glad I did that instead of going to Jesuit.

Not exactly. You were commenting on how insufferable things were in Fairfax which was quite a judgment from you about others to make from someone who doesn't understand the dynamics of this thread. This is your quote I believe. "I probably wouldn't even be allowed to breath on the glass of the school. We are childless at the moment. I can't imagine how insufferable growing up here must be."

I am not sure you understood my what I meant by "insufferable," but maybe you did? How about, it would suck because it would be intensely not fun because people in this area are super stressed about achievement. Does that help? I had a blast in high school. Wouldn't trade that experience ever.

FWIW my wife and her brother both attending school in Montgomery county and did AP, both in their zoned schools. Both Ivy League educated. From what you all are telling me IB doesn't seem to work up here. I am OK with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:STEM PhD here, did IB in high school and it better prepared me for a STEM career than even college. Way more writing in STEM than people think. Also gave me a fantastic background in the humanities that I think rivals most college courses.

Funny you say that, I ejected on doing a PhD in STEM and went to law school. Was about to take the qualifying exam, and didn't bother. Agree on the writing component part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

It would help Alexandria to allow ACPS students to attend TJ and it would help Fairfax to get rid of most of its IB programs.

Why would IB at TC Williams help Alexandria to allow ACPS students to attend TJ? They opted out.

FARM means Free And Reduced Meals.

IB at TC would make things even worse. Having AP is one of the things ACPS gets right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

Okay.

It would be like putting IB in Hybla Valley.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry for offering my perspective. It was a waste of time. So, that is where this lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the area in Fairfax that has IB is similar to the poorer neighborhoods of Alexandria. Do you think IB is a good fit for them? Would it attract people to Alexandria in your opinion? I don't think so, but am asking you since you are a proponent of the program.

I never commented on IB as an effective magnet program. I commenting on its educational value. If you go back and read what I wrote, I was actually critical of my school being called a "magnet" since it was in a wealthy area. In my county in Florida, at least as I understood it, the magnet program was largely used to raise test scores and to change the demographic of the school. That seemed to have worked in St. Pete.

To answer your question, we only have one high school in the city of Alexandria, so it would have no effect. If we had more than one high school, I doubt it would make a difference in terms of attracting people to Alexandria. Also, the poorer areas you speak of aren't going anywhere.

You don't seem to understand my comment. First, please recognize that you attended a magnet school in a wealthy area and that IB was probably very good partly because of those things. While I think IB has many merits, I get the feeling that your perception of the program is a little biased based on the fact that you attended school with a lot of high achieving students. Maybe you do recognize this fact, but what I'm asking you to do is to pretend you are a low income family member in a low income district and analyze the program from that angle. My comment was would TC Williams be better served by being an IB school and/or do you think based on your experience of IB that IB is a good accelerated program for high achieving FARM students and high schools with high FARMS ratings?

Thanks for your comment. I thought I was transparent about my feelings of my IB program and the demographic that attended it, and also the area where the school was located. As a corollary to that, my parents would have never allowed me to be bused all the way to St. Pete High in south county, where there were multiple reports of problems with the IB students vs. the regular kids. They also had a drive-by or two the year before I enrolled. So, yes, I appreciate that.

I have no idea what FARM even means. I do know that we had a number of kids in my program that were from not so great neighborhoods, and whose parents were not college educated. As I said in my earlier post, everybody from my program has done well.

I haven't once said I understood the dynamic of IB vs. AP here. I was simply commenting on my and my classmates' experience. I think it was an excellent program, and I am glad I did that instead of going to Jesuit.

Not exactly. You were commenting on how insufferable things were in Fairfax which was quite a judgment from you about others to make from someone who doesn't understand the dynamics of this thread. This is your quote I believe. "I probably wouldn't even be allowed to breath on the glass of the school. We are childless at the moment. I can't imagine how insufferable growing up here must be."

I am not sure you understood my what I meant by "insufferable," but maybe you did? How about, it would suck because it would be intensely not fun because people in this area are super stressed about achievement. Does that help? I had a blast in high school. Wouldn't trade that experience ever.

FWIW my wife and her brother both attending school in Montgomery county and did AP, both in their zoned schools. Both Ivy League educated. From what you all are telling me IB doesn't seem to work up here. I am OK with that.

It works, just as a magnet program and not as a standard for all high schools. FCPS would do well to have four IB schools in four different areas of the county It does become a disservice I think in low income, high immigrant areas because the program isn't as flexible and the writing seems to be a turn off for English language learners. Not many are going for the diploma or even taking that many classes. Having IB schools in a lower income area of the county is not helping that are revitalize.

[Anonymous]

It's a conceit to think having four IB schools would make them "magnets." It's the AP schools in the higher SES areas that are truly magnets, as they attract the highest achieving students.

The only way to have an IB "magnet" is to limit admission and then require students to seek the full diploma, as at RM in MoCo. Otherwise you just have one more school that would be better served by AP.