To you, what's the bottom of the "elite" colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

I would put Swarthmore in with Williams and Amherst. There are probably some other top colleges that should be there, maybe Pomona? I would add Tufts and Emory to the 19 line.

25 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams/Swathmore
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan/Pomona

Should there be more or less?

Too many

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

Elite is relative so it is pretty meaningless and there are multiple areas in which a school may be considered elite (undergraduate, graduate professional, other graduate, research and publications, athletics, etc.). There are really only a few schools where there is a reasonable likelihood that most enrolled students are really attending their absolute top choice if all options are open to them, and those are Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The other possible ones there, but less likely are Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. (Caltech is still pretty attractive to a small set of students that want a more theory-driven and pre-academic option compared to MIT.) If a student is interested in military service, then West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy would join the list. Beyond that, all the schools listed above are second choice and down. At the graduate level, there is too much variation to contemplate, as PhD students often pick on who they may be studying with in their field of interest.

In my view if you are extending to LACs as the above shows with Amherst and Williams there are a number of others that should be included like Pomona and Swarthmore, but they are obviously only potentially elite in the undergraduate education context. Likewise, if you look at some of the schools above like Dartmouth, Brown, Rice, UVA, Georgetown, they are far from elite across the board in research, influential papers, graduate and undergraduate STEM, etc. Schools like Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, UCSD, and North Carolina are generally stronger than they are in a number of these areas.

I would also say there are quite a few schools that have similar or better stats than say UVA. Emory and Notre Dame are examples. I am not sure what the basis is for excluding them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

It includes UVA and someone on DCUM is always trying to define it as elite and anything they can position below as non-elite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

Elite is relative so it is pretty meaningless and there are multiple areas in which a school may be considered elite (undergraduate, graduate professional, other graduate, research and publications, athletics, etc.). There are really only a few schools where there is a reasonable likelihood that most enrolled students are really attending their absolute top choice if all options are open to them, and those are Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The other possible ones there, but less likely are Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. (Caltech is still pretty attractive to a small set of students that want a more theory-driven and pre-academic option compared to MIT.) If a student is interested in military service, then West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy would join the list. Beyond that, all the schools listed above are second choice and down. At the graduate level, there is too much variation to contemplate, as PhD students often pick on who they may be studying with in their field of interest.

In my view if you are extending to LACs as the above shows with Amherst and Williams there are a number of others that should be included like Pomona and Swarthmore, but they are obviously only potentially elite in the undergraduate education context. Likewise, if you look at some of the schools above like Dartmouth, Brown, Rice, UVA, Georgetown, they are far from elite across the board in research, influential papers, graduate and undergraduate STEM, etc. Schools like Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, UCSD, and North Carolina are generally stronger than they are in a number of these areas.

I would also say there are quite a few schools that have similar or better stats than say UVA. Emory and Notre Dame are examples. I am not sure what the basis is for excluding them.

I'm just going to assume PP forgot them because Emory and Notre Dame are harder to get into than Berkeley, UCLA, UVA, Georgetown, and Michigan. Strange they wouldn't be there. Carnegie Mellon is also missing replaced by the public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

Elite is relative so it is pretty meaningless and there are multiple areas in which a school may be considered elite (undergraduate, graduate professional, other graduate, research and publications, athletics, etc.). There are really only a few schools where there is a reasonable likelihood that most enrolled students are really attending their absolute top choice if all options are open to them, and those are Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The other possible ones there, but less likely are Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. (Caltech is still pretty attractive to a small set of students that want a more theory-driven and pre-academic option compared to MIT.) If a student is interested in military service, then West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy would join the list. Beyond that, all the schools listed above are second choice and down. At the graduate level, there is too much variation to contemplate, as PhD students often pick on who they may be studying with in their field of interest.

In my view if you are extending to LACs as the above shows with Amherst and Williams there are a number of others that should be included like Pomona and Swarthmore, but they are obviously only potentially elite in the undergraduate education context. Likewise, if you look at some of the schools above like Dartmouth, Brown, Rice, UVA, Georgetown, they are far from elite across the board in research, influential papers, graduate and undergraduate STEM, etc. Schools like Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, UCSD, and North Carolina are generally stronger than they are in a number of these areas.

I would also say there are quite a few schools that have similar or better stats than say UVA. Emory and Notre Dame are examples. I am not sure what the basis is for excluding them.

There are a lot of students who would be competitive (or as competitive as those who apply) at Harvard, Stanford, and MIT who set their sights on other elite schools, at least at the undergraduate level. Harvard has a reputation for arrogance and ignoring undergraduates, Stanford is on the West Coast, and MIT is a niche school with a STEM focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

Elite is relative so it is pretty meaningless and there are multiple areas in which a school may be considered elite (undergraduate, graduate professional, other graduate, research and publications, athletics, etc.). There are really only a few schools where there is a reasonable likelihood that most enrolled students are really attending their absolute top choice if all options are open to them, and those are Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The other possible ones there, but less likely are Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. (Caltech is still pretty attractive to a small set of students that want a more theory-driven and pre-academic option compared to MIT.) If a student is interested in military service, then West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy would join the list. Beyond that, all the schools listed above are second choice and down. At the graduate level, there is too much variation to contemplate, as PhD students often pick on who they may be studying with in their field of interest.

In my view if you are extending to LACs as the above shows with Amherst and Williams there are a number of others that should be included like Pomona and Swarthmore, but they are obviously only potentially elite in the undergraduate education context. Likewise, if you look at some of the schools above like Dartmouth, Brown, Rice, UVA, Georgetown, they are far from elite across the board in research, influential papers, graduate and undergraduate STEM, etc. Schools like Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, UCSD, and North Carolina are generally stronger than they are in a number of these areas.

I would also say there are quite a few schools that have similar or better stats than say UVA. Emory and Notre Dame are examples. I am not sure what the basis is for excluding them.

There are a lot of students who would be competitive (or as competitive as those who apply) at Harvard, Stanford, and MIT who set their sights on other elite schools, at least at the undergraduate level. Harvard has a reputation for arrogance and ignoring undergraduates, Stanford is on the West Coast, and MIT is a niche school with a STEM focus.

You’re an ignorant fool. MIT is a niche school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

Elite stops with row 9. The rest are not relevant to the general population or globally.

Elite is relative so it is pretty meaningless and there are multiple areas in which a school may be considered elite (undergraduate, graduate professional, other graduate, research and publications, athletics, etc.). There are really only a few schools where there is a reasonable likelihood that most enrolled students are really attending their absolute top choice if all options are open to them, and those are Harvard, Stanford, and MIT. The other possible ones there, but less likely are Yale, Princeton, and Caltech. (Caltech is still pretty attractive to a small set of students that want a more theory-driven and pre-academic option compared to MIT.) If a student is interested in military service, then West Point, Annapolis, and the Air Force Academy would join the list. Beyond that, all the schools listed above are second choice and down. At the graduate level, there is too much variation to contemplate, as PhD students often pick on who they may be studying with in their field of interest.

In my view if you are extending to LACs as the above shows with Amherst and Williams there are a number of others that should be included like Pomona and Swarthmore, but they are obviously only potentially elite in the undergraduate education context. Likewise, if you look at some of the schools above like Dartmouth, Brown, Rice, UVA, Georgetown, they are far from elite across the board in research, influential papers, graduate and undergraduate STEM, etc. Schools like Washington, Texas, Wisconsin, UCSD, and North Carolina are generally stronger than they are in a number of these areas.

I would also say there are quite a few schools that have similar or better stats than say UVA. Emory and Notre Dame are examples. I am not sure what the basis is for excluding them.

There are a lot of students who would be competitive (or as competitive as those who apply) at Harvard, Stanford, and MIT who set their sights on other elite schools, at least at the undergraduate level. Harvard has a reputation for arrogance and ignoring undergraduates, Stanford is on the West Coast, and MIT is a niche school with a STEM focus.

You’re an ignorant fool. MIT is a niche school?

Yes. It repels as many as it attracts, and obviously some of its students and/or graduates are especially lacking in social skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a pretty loose definition of elite. If it accepts less than 30% of its applicants, it is elite to me. I'd even give schools with 35% acceptance rate elite status.

I think you mean "fewer than" 30% of its applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mental list:

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/Columbia
5 - MIT
6 - UPenn/Chicago
8 - Northwestern/Duke/Cornell

Not exactly informed by rankings, but by my 20+ years in MBB consulting and relatives in academia. Make of it what you will.

Princeton was omitted.

23 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan

Should there be more?

I would put Swarthmore in with Williams and Amherst. There are probably some other top colleges that should be there, maybe Pomona? I would add Tufts and Emory to the 19 line.

25 Elites:
1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Northwestern/Hopkins/Berkley
17 - Amherst/Williams/Swathmore
19 - Rice/UCLA/UVA/Georgetown/Michigan/Pomona

Should there be more or less?

Too many

1 - Harvard
2 - Yale
3 - Stanford/MIT
5 - Princeton
6 - Columbia/UPenn/Chicago
9 - Caltech/Duke/Northwestern
12 - Dartmouth/Brown/Cornell/Hopkins

[Anonymous]

The truly global elite:

- Harvard
- MIT
- Stanford
- Berkeley
- Oxford

That's it! Most other so-called "elites" are just reflections of local parochial taste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truly global elite:

- Harvard
- MIT
- Stanford
- Berkeley
- Oxford

That's it! Most other so-called "elites" are just reflections of local parochial taste.

For undergrad, take out Berkeley (you don't even need SATs to get in lol)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TRULY "elite" - let's be honest:

Princeton University (NJ)
Harvard University (MA)
Yale University (CT) (tie)
Columbia University (NY) (tie)
Stanford University (CA) (tie)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

That's it folks - those are the ONLY schools that are so elite they NEVER require explanation.

Of course Penn's Wharton School and Cornell's Hotel school are elite - but that's the point you have to specify the particular program. The other Top 25 schools are terrific, but there are NOT in the same class.

The only thing more idiotic than this thread is the fact that this poster felt the need to list the states for each of these schools. That's my 2 cents.

Surprise pp! There will always be someone more idiotic. In this case, on page 4. “Princeton has the most coveted location of any of the Ivies. You get a substantial number of under-qualified students applying simply because it's in NYC.”

That was pretty obviously a typo from someone who may have started a different sentence and then meant to refer to Columbia. These posts aren't exactly peer-reviewed journal articles.

I actually feel sorry for the people who feel so insecure about how MIT or other schools may be perceived that they compose lengthy posts that will be forgotten in a week or less.

Stop trying to make Columbia 'happen'...lol

DP with no connection to Columbia but Columbia “happened” about 250 years ago. I really don’t understand people who are deluding themselves into thinking Columbia is not elite?

I just want to know which Ivy the "Princeton has the most coveted location of any of the Ivies ... in NYC" pp attended.

DP, but I think Princeton's idyllic but Amtrak-accessible location between Philadelphia and New York is the best of any Ivy, with the possible exception of Harvard.

It depends on what one is looking for. I find Harvard, Yale, Columbia and Penn’s campuses to be dreadful. I’d much rather spend four years in bucolic Hanover or Ithaca. To each their own I suppose.

Princeton has a pretty campus but in a sleepy location IMO. I would personally rather be closer to a vibrant urban core. Yale has stunning architecture with a vibrant scene in New Haven (despite its grittiness). UPenn's Locust Walk is idyllic in great foody Philly (despite its grittiness). Columbia's campus is the best city in the world. All 3 of these are dreadful? No way.

BTW, Princeton's Amtrak access is less than ideal with very few trains compared to UPenn, Columbia, Yale and Harvard.

There's really no shortage of trains one can catch to get to NYC or DC from Princeton. You can also catch a bus to NYC directly across from the university. IMO the total package (campus, architecture, and proximity to major cities) makes it the most attractive of the Ivies.

Yale has fantastic architecture, but New Haven isn't very nice. Harvard has a great location, in a city full of students, but the architecture is underwhelming. The urban schools have rather small campuses, but are nice if you want to attend school in a city (Columbia > Penn & Brown IMO), and Cornell and Dartmouth are isolated (good if you want to be in a remote locale, but not if you periodically want to make easy trips into the city).

Princeton to DC Union Station has 4 trains (no Acela) tomorrow vs Yale to DC Union Station has 20 trains (6 of which are Acela) tomorrow. So there is a shortage of trains from Princeton compared to other Ivy League schools.

[Anonymous]

Princeton NJ is a sleepy suburban town. Excellent university but I could not get my DC to apply even for a bribe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truly global elite:

- Harvard
- MIT
- Stanford
- Berkeley
- Oxford

That's it! Most other so-called "elites" are just reflections of local parochial taste.

For undergrad, take out Berkeley (you don't even need SATs to get in lol)

+1