holding boys back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I personally think that parents who want "choice" in this regard should go private.

Really? What are you doing to make your thoughts a reality? Or is the limit of your thought process that those parents should be able to afford $25K per year, per child? Because if that's the case? This is a good time for you to shut your fat ugly busybody mouth, you cow. Unless you're willing to personally write a scholarship check?

How other people raise their own children is none of your business. And if you were less of a shrew this would be obvious to you. You'd automatically keep your face out of other people's parenting without having to be told so blatantly. And everyone (especially your own neglected children & husband) would be happier.

[Anonymous]

And I would add that the private schools who are allowing/encouraging this are not doing themselves any favors. Granted, there are some kids where the school and parents might agree to do this, and that is fine.

My issue is where the parents demand it for no other reason than to 'game' school for their kid. Nothing special or unique about the kid that necessitates holding them back.

[Anonymous]

Round and round and round we go. To me this is like that myth that awful comedian is promoting that parents are out there claiming their kids are autistic in order to get some perceived advantage. Its a myth that has legs and leads everyone to nod yeah, those awful parents, they're cheating. I can tell you as the parent of a child on the autistic spectrum that the real problem is parents denying that their child has a problem. I have never seen a parent embrace this label when it wasn't warranted. I see the same thing with this idea that parents are gaming the system by keeping their immature kids back a year. Its a myth thats out there -- look at those terrible, competitive parents -- but if you actually talk to any of these parents, you will find that there are reasons, difficult to grapple with reasons that these parents make the decisions that they do. And the reasons may not be apparent to those of you who are quick to judge.

When you have a child who just needs a little watering to grow, it is so tempting to judge the parents of children who need a lot more. A little humility is in order here.

And by the way, although I agree with the sentiments expressed by 23:52, I think the name-calling is out of place.

[Anonymous]

I agree, PP 23:52 is WAY out of line in the words she chose to express her opinion. It makes you wonder where all that anger is really coming from...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think that parents who want "choice" in this regard should go private.

Really? What are you doing to make your thoughts a reality? Or is the limit of your thought process that those parents should be able to afford $25K per year, per child? Because if that's the case? This is a good time for you to shut your fat ugly busybody mouth, you cow. Unless you're willing to personally write a scholarship check?

How other people raise their own children is none of your business. And if you were less of a shrew this would be obvious to you. You'd automatically keep your face out of other people's parenting without having to be told so blatantly. And everyone (especially your own neglected children & husband) would be happier.

whoa nelly. simmer down.

[Anonymous]

"I have never seen a parent embrace this label when it wasn't warranted."

While I completely agree with you that parents don't seek the autism label unless it is warranted, I know teachers in MoCo as well as in NY and NY who encounter one or two parents each year who try to get their perfectly average kids labelled with some sort of learning issue so they can have an IEP. One teacher who has been teaching for 30 years and is now a reading/resource specialist told me that parents today no longer accept it when they have normal, average kids -- that something must be wrong if their kid is a solid B/C student as opposed to an A/B student.

To be clear: I'm not talking about autism here -- I'm merely stating that some parents do demand (ie: hire attorneys or get "advocates") that the school label the child and provide extra services which aren't warranted.

This push for all children to be A students -- while noble -- is a farce. There was a big expose on Harvard regarding the grading system. A tenured professor refused to dole out A after A to sub-par students -- he said that a decade or so ago the curriculum and grading system was more accurate and fair and now there is a push to hand out As to everyone who shows up. It's okay for some kids to get As and some kids to get Bs and some kids to get Cs. Not everyone can be at the top -- and that's okay. Whatever happened to just trying your best and praising kids for doing their best?

[Anonymous]

No one disputes that there is a small subset of kids that could benefit from an extra year before starting kindergarten but there's something broader going on here - DS's preschool, in the suburbs, had a kindergarten workshop every year in which the "gift of time" was subtly extolled for boys with summer b-days - we're talking about boys with June and even May b-days. DS' pre-K class last year had several kids (including a girl) who were held back. Knowing these kids, and seeing what DS' kindergarten program is like, there probably was no reason for these kids to be held back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, PP 23:52 is WAY out of line in the words she chose to express her opinion. It makes you wonder where all that anger is really coming from...

Maybe it's from telling people time and time again to back off and yet having them still try to butt in with their unwanted opinions and advice? I don't encourage the use of that kind of strong language, but it doesn't particularly bother me anymore. I can assure you that I think it gets really old listening to grown adults fail to mind their own business. I'm going to do what's best for my child and family, I applaud other parents who do the same, and I love it that there's nothing any of these busybodies can do about it.

[Anonymous]

You could always ignore reading message boards.

[Anonymous]

There are boys who were held back at some point that had FALL through even Jan birthdays. No disabilities. Why? To increase their chances of success over their peers. What should be done? Mandatory school attendance public or private. No questions no reprieves.

All states have some sort of compulsory age based education requirement that must be fullfilled via public, private, home schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are boys who were held back at some point that had FALL through even Jan birthdays. No disabilities. Why? To increase their chances of success over their peers. What should be done? Mandatory school attendance public or private. No questions no reprieves.

All states have some sort of compulsory age based education requirement that must be fullfilled via public, private, home schooling.

I agree with this, especially considering that it is virtually impossible for kids who miss the cut-off by even a day to get into kindergarten. The schools can handle the full range of children -- and actually do in other parts of the country (per other commenters who said that red-shirting basically doesn't exist in most of the country)

[Anonymous]

we relocated to the South and unfortunately, boys are held back here also. The cutoff next year will be Aug 15. I have a June son and we DID NOT hold him back-he began reading over the summer, wanted to go to K and essentially had all the "skills" the system wants to see in a K. He is the youngest in his class and his teacher has told us, one of the more "advanced". It would have been a joke to hold him back. His brother was born in Sept and if he has the same skill set as his older brother when school starts, we will push for him to start K or put him in private school. Each child is an individual and it drives me nuts when we pigeon hole these kids based soley on age. I wish there were more testing involved. BTW, some of the kids that were held back in my son's class-didn't work. Still not the brightest of the bunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear 15:26 poster: You shouldn't take any of these posts so personally. Of course some parents are holding their kids back for a legitimate reason. But don't think that there aren't some parents who are holding their kids back for silly reasons (to give their boys an advantage in sports) or for their own insecurities or because they are buying into the DC metro area redshirting mantra. I know parents who held their boys back but didn't hold their girls back because "boys just need more time to catch up with girls." Whatever. I know parents who compared kid #2 to their older sibling and opted to hold their second ones back b/c they weren't reading or writing yet like their older sib had done at that age. Again, whatever. So PP 15:26 -- yes, you may have valid reasons for holding your kid back and no one is judging you for that. But please don't judge the other posters who happen to know parents who have held their kids back for no apparent reason.

FWIW, I've discussed this with friends who live in the mid-west, the south , etc. and they thought I was crazy -- the redshirting philosophy isn't universal nationwide. My friend in Oklahoma City (a partner at a big firm who sends his kids to a private school) said the only kids that get held back from starting kindergarten on time have abundantly apparent issues -- and teachers make the call. Parents don't opt to hold back otherwise average kids.

I know someone who moved to the Philly burbs after living in NoVa for 5 years. Kid #1 went to school in McLean. When they moved to the Philly burbs area, she met with pre-K programs to discuss redshirting kid #2 (a boy) since he had a summer birthday (and for no other real reason). The principals and the pre-K programs were confused -- they said they don't "redshirt" there.

But the problem is that it is true that boys often need more time to "catch up" to the girls. This does mean that they are stupider or their IQ's are lower, but our society values students who sit and shut up, and that is largely girls until around 10. Boys, by nature, learn often by and through movement, therefore ALWAYS seeming to be the troublesome students in the class, especially next to those "perfect" girls. There is STRONG research on the brain and development, not to mention my own experience teaching both all-girls, all-boys, and co-ed, that lead me to believe that is often the right thing to red shirt a boy, especially if there is any doubt. Again, it is family to family, kid to kid, school to school. But wanting a kid to "catch up" i.e. mature is GOOD for that child, not selfish on the part of the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are boys who were held back at some point that had FALL through even Jan birthdays. No disabilities. Why? To increase their chances of success over their peers. What should be done? Mandatory school attendance public or private. No questions no reprieves.

All states have some sort of compulsory age based education requirement that must be fullfilled via public, private, home schooling.

So then parents will do private Jr.-K for a year before public K, or else "officially" "home school" (like many already do). Individual parents know better than any nosy old busybody with too much time on her hands and too many opinions that no-one cares about possibly could. Period. (Thank God!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are boys who were held back at some point that had FALL through even Jan birthdays. No disabilities. Why? To increase their chances of success over their peers. What should be done? Mandatory school attendance public or private. No questions no reprieves.

All states have some sort of compulsory age based education requirement that must be fullfilled via public, private, home schooling.

So then parents will do private Jr.-K for a year before public K, or else "officially" "home school" (like many already do). Individual parents know better than any nosy old busybody with too much time on her hands and too many opinions that no-one cares about possibly could. Period. (Thank God!!)

Insults? Who cares about your opinion? Individual parents make these decisions and some schools are known for ludicrous holdbacks. An extra year of growth might help in sports but even youth lacrosse/football went to age /birthdate instead of grade for teams. Kids with permits and even licenses by the end of grade 8? Voting for a president and a high school junior?