Racial issues in DCPS for mixed race kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

[Anonymous]

^Ditto! There's a lot of mean-spirit half-baked people on this thread with axes to grind with their existence. I, too, said adios a very long time ago and have never looked back. I've been very happy around good people. These people with chips on their shoulder which they take out on biracials lead sad lives. So glad to not be around them!

[Anonymous]

OP here! We've decided to home-school Thanks, everyone!

(Just kidding)

[Anonymous]

21:02 again. Not sure it's wise to enter the fray again, especially about the racial identity issue, but here goes:

My parents, immigrants, moved Stateside in the sixties--mother is black; father is a different race. My parents said pretty much nada about race to my siblings and I growing up. However, we were raised in a black neighborhood, attended a black church, etc., so culturally we grew up with a mostly black American experience (along with some contribution from each of my parents' countries of origin). I have sort of a Jennifer Beals look, whereas my sibs are several shades darker, but none of that seemed to matter much.

Black Americans are definitely not the only group that have their issues with color, European admixture, etc. My father's ethnic group has tons of issues with color. I'm proud of both sides of my heritage, but I've always identified moreso as black. My siblings and I would've been laughed out of town had we tried to identify solely as my father's ethnic group. I've found a lot more acceptance among black Americans.

Interestingly, because of my racially ambiguous look, I'm not readily identifiable as black--and I've been privy to racist comments by non-blacks (luckily, I can probably count these times on one hand). I think the OP's child may face the same issues, since being 1/4 black he may not look phenotypically black. It is then up to him whether he wants to challenge people on their comments--which would mean disclosing that he is part black, which can be awkward, since they've just offended him--or just sort of take note and move on, keeping with a "fly on the wall" status.

I'm not really sure what my point is--I guess just to defend black Americans a bit, and to say there is a level of complexity to issues of race and racial identity that can't easily be captured by sweeping generalizations about AAs, biracials, or whites. There is definitely a historical context related to the "peculiar institution" of slavery that influences racial identity for people with some African ancestry in this country. Sorry to get all Henry Louis Gates, but it's true. I get that some PPs have had painful experiences--while we can extrapolate a bit from these, hopefully we all each realize that there are good aspects to all of these cultural groups, and that our own experience won't necessarily apply for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

How did your parents present to you issues of race/racism/opportunities, etc? I realize this is a vague and loaded question, but raising bi-racial children, as much as possible, I would like them to "be above" racial slurs will also subtly preparing them. To me, the fact that you don't recall teasing speaks volumes, whether it's the way your parents prepared you, or how you prepared yourself? That is useful information, at least to me. Thanks!

PP - My parents also said nothing to me about race, however I had opportunities to interact heavily with both sides of my extended families in situations where my immediate family represented the only white or black people in the room. My black and white extended families fully embraced me and both of my parents, and over time they learned to fully embrace each other as well. For example, my parental grandparents would travel with us to the home of my maternal grandparents for Christmas. Race was only one part of the difference -- my white family tends to be republican from the North (with the strong exception of my dad), while my black family is democratic and lives in the South. I had many examples of loving AA and whites who were my family and always put love first.

Growing up I was always in educational situations that were predominantly black (elementary school) or white (high school), and participated in summer and extracurricular activities that were split in a similar way. I went to summer day and overnight camps that were almost entirely black or white throughout my childhood and would attend a few weeks of each every summer, while I went to sports and academic camps that were also entirely black or white during the school year.

My parents exposed me to both of my cultures and I always had loving grandparents, aunts and uncles who supported me. I think some of the strong reactions on this board may be from individuals who were not able to interact with both of their parents and/or their extended family, which certainly was the case for many biracial families in the past. This can be extremely hurtful when one parent would leave due to the pressure of an inter-racial relationship or grandparents did not acknowledge their grandchildren. Fortunately this dynamic has changed in this country for most bi-racial families.

Put love first, expose your kids to all parts of their cultures and they will turn out well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

Thank you all for continuing this honest and mostly constructive discussion (the "get over it and move on" pp being the exception). But so much discrimination is present in both the black and Latino communities that has to do with skin color, the straightness of hair, etc, most white people do not have a clue about it. Fortunately I had enough (non-white) women in college willing to let me into their lives so I knew what I was getting into by marrying a non-white person and having a biracial family. Let me say, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Because even if you know the types of experiences your kids might have, it is of no use unless they talk to you. And as they become teenagers it becomes very difficult to get them to talk about anything and especially if you have girls they are at one of their most vulnerable ages. My kids are going to a very diverse school, and I view that both as a blessing and a source of worry. I for one based on some of the experiences cited above (especially the way black women responded to anyone lighter than them of any race who is dating one of "their" men), would never want my girls (who are white/Latino but look completely Latino) to date black boys. I just think it might cause too much chaos in their lives from the "sistas" who otherwise are extremely nice to them and include them at school. And from college I kind of get that - the way it was explained to me (about white women etc was that there are so few educated black men that basically you are stealing them).

I also don't know what response my girls would get from a white family whose boy brought them home (if the way my family reacted when I first brought my husband home is any indication, they are in for a world of hurt - even if it is phrased as "it's not that we are racist honey, just think about society and your kids.........). And as my daughter said at the wise age of 5 after another blow out with me and my MIL "grandma wanted Daddy to marry a nice Latin (country included) girl who would wash his feet." So it definitely goes both ways. But I don't think in high school there would be much of a problem, partially because there are so few white boys who cares?

Yes a lot of this has to do with skin tone, but the origin of that skin tone was/is of course racial mixing however far back it goes (my husband has an African great grandma, and you can see it in his hair). So being biracial in your own nuclear family raises some kind of issues, while being the color you are (and for Latinos speaking or not speaking the type of Spanish you speak) in the outside world raises other issues. When we went back to college some people who had not known we were dating did not realize that my kids were my kids they looked so Latin. They knew they were his kids and commented on how I was so "great" with his daughter. I found that funny. But when my kids were younger and lighter my MIL got really upset when people thought she was my daughter's nanny(and I still don't know why that pushed her buttons). My only experience with discrimination (before I learned my MIL had really wanted someone of her nationality and color) was seriously dating a Jewish boy whose parents started flipping out at some point.

But I naively thought that I could traipse into my husband's family with no problem. And I was wrong. The whole time I was being judged, assumptions were being made about the meaning of things I said because I was white, and I felt at home and said what I felt and tried to become one of them and failed. At least now they are starting to be nice and see my kids again but me they don't want to see at all. So that is my story, and as my kids grow up they will hear both sides of it (they have already seen both sides), and I will say it was a culture clash and my husband will say it was because I was an entitled bitch (we are not going to stay married). So I do worry about my kids, and where they will fit in now and in the end, because I made a mistake. Since they have both in them I worry they will be screwed no matter which culture they choose. But naturally I think mine would be safer and less sexist, 20 years in.... I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

Please don't tell your girls to marry white women because of your experience. That's your experience. I'm AA so I don't have any knowledge of African culture like your MIL seems to have. Totally different than an AA experience. There are jerks in every race. My sister's ex husband is white and he is the biggest asshole in the world. I would never tell my nieces to avoid white men because of their dad. It just so happens that my dad was just an incredible father and husband. They look to him as their example.

Also, I have to tell you... I have been called the nanny with my kids and it absolutely pissed me off. It's as if I could not have produced my light skinned curly haired kid. Or, do I look like a nanny? or the lawyer that I am. It makes me crazy. It's the reason we live in DC now and not in our previous neighborhood in Chevy Chase, MD.

It's true that I would prefer my sons to marry black women. No question. I feel like we need to preserve our culture. But I'm not crazy when I see biracial couples and I certainly would not disrespect my son's wives or their families if the chose differently. My sons are total feminists. I raised them that way!! They will be incredible catches for the right PROGRESSIVE woman. I'm proud that they've been going to pro choice marches since they were toddlers.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

Thank you all for continuing this honest and mostly constructive discussion (the "get over it and move on" pp being the exception). But so much discrimination is present in both the black and Latino communities that has to do with skin color, the straightness of hair, etc, most white people do not have a clue about it. Fortunately I had enough (non-white) women in college willing to let me into their lives so I knew what I was getting into by marrying a non-white person and having a biracial family. Let me say, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Because even if you know the types of experiences your kids might have, it is of no use unless they talk to you. And as they become teenagers it becomes very difficult to get them to talk about anything and especially if you have girls they are at one of their most vulnerable ages. My kids are going to a very diverse school, and I view that both as a blessing and a source of worry. I for one based on some of the experiences cited above (especially the way black women responded to anyone lighter than them of any race who is dating one of "their" men), would never want my girls (who are white/Latino but look completely Latino) to date black boys. I just think it might cause too much chaos in their lives from the "sistas" who otherwise are extremely nice to them and include them at school. And from college I kind of get that - the way it was explained to me (about white women etc was that there are so few educated black men that basically you are stealing them).

I also don't know what response my girls would get from a white family whose boy brought them home (if the way my family reacted when I first brought my husband home is any indication, they are in for a world of hurt - even if it is phrased as "it's not that we are racist honey, just think about society and your kids.........). And as my daughter said at the wise age of 5 after another blow out with me and my MIL "grandma wanted Daddy to marry a nice Latin (country included) girl who would wash his feet." So it definitely goes both ways. But I don't think in high school there would be much of a problem, partially because there are so few white boys who cares?

Yes a lot of this has to do with skin tone, but the origin of that skin tone was/is of course racial mixing however far back it goes (my husband has an African great grandma, and you can see it in his hair). So being biracial in your own nuclear family raises some kind of issues, while being the color you are (and for Latinos speaking or not speaking the type of Spanish you speak) in the outside world raises other issues. When we went back to college some people who had not known we were dating did not realize that my kids were my kids they looked so Latin. They knew they were his kids and commented on how I was so "great" with his daughter. I found that funny. But when my kids were younger and lighter my MIL got really upset when people thought she was my daughter's nanny(and I still don't know why that pushed her buttons). My only experience with discrimination (before I learned my MIL had really wanted someone of her nationality and color) was seriously dating a Jewish boy whose parents started flipping out at some point.

But I naively thought that I could traipse into my husband's family with no problem. And I was wrong. The whole time I was being judged, assumptions were being made about the meaning of things I said because I was white, and I felt at home and said what I felt and tried to become one of them and failed. At least now they are starting to be nice and see my kids again but me they don't want to see at all. So that is my story, and as my kids grow up they will hear both sides of it (they have already seen both sides), and I will say it was a culture clash and my husband will say it was because I was an entitled bitch (we are not going to stay married). So I do worry about my kids, and where they will fit in now and in the end, because I made a mistake. Since they have both in them I worry they will be screwed no matter which culture they choose. But naturally I think mine would be safer and less sexist, 20 years in.... I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home.....

[Anonymous]

Wow. Awful. Good luck pp I hope you find love and a more supportive second family. The judgement u describe is awful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

Please don't tell your girls to marry white women because of your experience. That's your experience. I'm AA so I don't have any knowledge of African culture like your MIL seems to have. Totally different than an AA experience. There are jerks in every race. My sister's ex husband is white and he is the biggest asshole in the world. I would never tell my nieces to avoid white men because of their dad. It just so happens that my dad was just an incredible father and husband. They look to him as their example.

Also, I have to tell you... I have been called the nanny with my kids and it absolutely pissed me off. It's as if I could not have produced my light skinned curly haired kid. Or, do I look like a nanny? or the lawyer that I am. It makes me crazy. It's the reason we live in DC now and not in our previous neighborhood in Chevy Chase, MD.

It's true that I would prefer my sons to marry black women. No question. I feel like we need to preserve our culture. But I'm not crazy when I see biracial couples and I certainly would not disrespect my son's wives or their families if the chose differently. My sons are total feminists. I raised them that way!! They will be incredible catches for the right PROGRESSIVE woman. I'm proud that they've been going to pro choice marches since they were toddlers.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

Thank you all for continuing this honest and mostly constructive discussion (the "get over it and move on" pp being the exception). But so much discrimination is present in both the black and Latino communities that has to do with skin color, the straightness of hair, etc, most white people do not have a clue about it. Fortunately I had enough (non-white) women in college willing to let me into their lives so I knew what I was getting into by marrying a non-white person and having a biracial family. Let me say, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Because even if you know the types of experiences your kids might have, it is of no use unless they talk to you. And as they become teenagers it becomes very difficult to get them to talk about anything and especially if you have girls they are at one of their most vulnerable ages. My kids are going to a very diverse school, and I view that both as a blessing and a source of worry. I for one based on some of the experiences cited above (especially the way black women responded to anyone lighter than them of any race who is dating one of "their" men), would never want my girls (who are white/Latino but look completely Latino) to date black boys. I just think it might cause too much chaos in their lives from the "sistas" who otherwise are extremely nice to them and include them at school. And from college I kind of get that - the way it was explained to me (about white women etc was that there are so few educated black men that basically you are stealing them).

I also don't know what response my girls would get from a white family whose boy brought them home (if the way my family reacted when I first brought my husband home is any indication, they are in for a world of hurt - even if it is phrased as "it's not that we are racist honey, just think about society and your kids.........). And as my daughter said at the wise age of 5 after another blow out with me and my MIL "grandma wanted Daddy to marry a nice Latin (country included) girl who would wash his feet." So it definitely goes both ways. But I don't think in high school there would be much of a problem, partially because there are so few white boys who cares?

Yes a lot of this has to do with skin tone, but the origin of that skin tone was/is of course racial mixing however far back it goes (my husband has an African great grandma, and you can see it in his hair). So being biracial in your own nuclear family raises some kind of issues, while being the color you are (and for Latinos speaking or not speaking the type of Spanish you speak) in the outside world raises other issues. When we went back to college some people who had not known we were dating did not realize that my kids were my kids they looked so Latin. They knew they were his kids and commented on how I was so "great" with his daughter. I found that funny. But when my kids were younger and lighter my MIL got really upset when people thought she was my daughter's nanny(and I still don't know why that pushed her buttons). My only experience with discrimination (before I learned my MIL had really wanted someone of her nationality and color) was seriously dating a Jewish boy whose parents started flipping out at some point.

But I naively thought that I could traipse into my husband's family with no problem. And I was wrong. The whole time I was being judged, assumptions were being made about the meaning of things I said because I was white, and I felt at home and said what I felt and tried to become one of them and failed. At least now they are starting to be nice and see my kids again but me they don't want to see at all. So that is my story, and as my kids grow up they will hear both sides of it (they have already seen both sides), and I will say it was a culture clash and my husband will say it was because I was an entitled bitch (we are not going to stay married). So I do worry about my kids, and where they will fit in now and in the end, because I made a mistake. Since they have both in them I worry they will be screwed no matter which culture they choose. But naturally I think mine would be safer and less sexist, 20 years in.... I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home.....

Sorry lady but you have issues, "I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home..."

No you should just want your girls to marry a man of any race who will love, cherish, and care for them whatever their race. If you tell your girls this YOU are screwing them up!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

I will continue to warn people about mental case anti black people like you. I pray ur not married to a black male...I wonder how he would feel about you not "trusting" his mother the women who raised him since she is a black women. The fact that you say you can't trust "black women" tells me your NOT OVER IT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

Please don't tell your girls to marry white women because of your experience. That's your experience. I'm AA so I don't have any knowledge of African culture like your MIL seems to have. Totally different than an AA experience. There are jerks in every race. My sister's ex husband is white and he is the biggest asshole in the world. I would never tell my nieces to avoid white men because of their dad. It just so happens that my dad was just an incredible father and husband. They look to him as their example.

Also, I have to tell you... I have been called the nanny with my kids and it absolutely pissed me off. It's as if I could not have produced my light skinned curly haired kid. Or, do I look like a nanny? or the lawyer that I am. It makes me crazy. It's the reason we live in DC now and not in our previous neighborhood in Chevy Chase, MD.

It's true that I would prefer my sons to marry black women. No question. I feel like we need to preserve our culture. But I'm not crazy when I see biracial couples and I certainly would not disrespect my son's wives or their families if the chose differently. My sons are total feminists. I raised them that way!! They will be incredible catches for the right PROGRESSIVE woman. I'm proud that they've been going to pro choice marches since they were toddlers.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

Thank you all for continuing this honest and mostly constructive discussion (the "get over it and move on" pp being the exception). But so much discrimination is present in both the black and Latino communities that has to do with skin color, the straightness of hair, etc, most white people do not have a clue about it. Fortunately I had enough (non-white) women in college willing to let me into their lives so I knew what I was getting into by marrying a non-white person and having a biracial family. Let me say, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Because even if you know the types of experiences your kids might have, it is of no use unless they talk to you. And as they become teenagers it becomes very difficult to get them to talk about anything and especially if you have girls they are at one of their most vulnerable ages. My kids are going to a very diverse school, and I view that both as a blessing and a source of worry. I for one based on some of the experiences cited above (especially the way black women responded to anyone lighter than them of any race who is dating one of "their" men), would never want my girls (who are white/Latino but look completely Latino) to date black boys. I just think it might cause too much chaos in their lives from the "sistas" who otherwise are extremely nice to them and include them at school. And from college I kind of get that - the way it was explained to me (about white women etc was that there are so few educated black men that basically you are stealing them).

I also don't know what response my girls would get from a white family whose boy brought them home (if the way my family reacted when I first brought my husband home is any indication, they are in for a world of hurt - even if it is phrased as "it's not that we are racist honey, just think about society and your kids.........). And as my daughter said at the wise age of 5 after another blow out with me and my MIL "grandma wanted Daddy to marry a nice Latin (country included) girl who would wash his feet." So it definitely goes both ways. But I don't think in high school there would be much of a problem, partially because there are so few white boys who cares?

Yes a lot of this has to do with skin tone, but the origin of that skin tone was/is of course racial mixing however far back it goes (my husband has an African great grandma, and you can see it in his hair). So being biracial in your own nuclear family raises some kind of issues, while being the color you are (and for Latinos speaking or not speaking the type of Spanish you speak) in the outside world raises other issues. When we went back to college some people who had not known we were dating did not realize that my kids were my kids they looked so Latin. They knew they were his kids and commented on how I was so "great" with his daughter. I found that funny. But when my kids were younger and lighter my MIL got really upset when people thought she was my daughter's nanny(and I still don't know why that pushed her buttons). My only experience with discrimination (before I learned my MIL had really wanted someone of her nationality and color) was seriously dating a Jewish boy whose parents started flipping out at some point.

But I naively thought that I could traipse into my husband's family with no problem. And I was wrong. The whole time I was being judged, assumptions were being made about the meaning of things I said because I was white, and I felt at home and said what I felt and tried to become one of them and failed. At least now they are starting to be nice and see my kids again but me they don't want to see at all. So that is my story, and as my kids grow up they will hear both sides of it (they have already seen both sides), and I will say it was a culture clash and my husband will say it was because I was an entitled bitch (we are not going to stay married). So I do worry about my kids, and where they will fit in now and in the end, because I made a mistake. Since they have both in them I worry they will be screwed no matter which culture they choose. But naturally I think mine would be safer and less sexist, 20 years in.... I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home.....

Sorry lady but you have issues, "I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home..."

No you should just want your girls to marry a man of any race who will love, cherish, and care for them whatever their race. If you tell your girls this YOU are screwing them up!!!

Yeah except it really doesn't work in Latin cultures where MIL's really want a Latin wife for their precious sons, where extended families are important -- all of this has ruined our marriage, including the fact that my MIL (who hates me) lives with us and spews poison about my parents and tells lies about me. So you are talking about a culture that I did not detect an iota of in this man in college, and then years later (talking 15) he expects an obedient wife, especially in front of his MIL. It works great when as someone described all interactions between the families are positive, but my basic hindsight (for the combination of a WASP and a second generation (MIL was dirt poor and first in family to graduate from college) Latin family, is that my dh is not recognizable as the liberated kid he was in college, and that culture clashes are hard, and since marriage is hard anyway, having that added potential barrier (which was a total blind spot for me because his father's family, who I spent a lot of time with before having a single conversation with MIL, loved me but they live in another country and we see them very rarely now but I saw them every vacation pre marriage). So that is all I have to say. I think certain cultures tend (and of course this is a huge generalization) not to have kicked the patriarchal aspects out so well and they emerge when children arrive, when who is working changes, etc....... And the older generation has a lot to do with it. So maybe it will be different for my girls. But anyway my husband ironically would not let them date black boys anyway - he is a racist in that way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

I will continue to warn people about mental case anti black people like you. I pray ur not married to a black male...I wonder how he would feel about you not "trusting" his mother the women who raised him since she is a black women. The fact that you say you can't trust "black women" tells me your NOT OVER IT

Seek therapy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think biracials are being harassed about their identity. I think that the way race is lived is highly personal. This discussion includes issues of color and class. There is also a strong undercurrent of power which is part of discussions of racism. If someone on the street says you are black and you don't feel that way, that person at most has made you have a bad day. If someone excludes you from an opportunity because of your race and/or ethnicity this is something completely different. The challenge in a school setting is that you want your child to be treated with respect and not discriminated against.

I grew up in urban and suburban settings. I was teased by some black kids growing up in the urban setting, but I was excluded by white teachers from extracurricular activities because I was not white or "white enough" (hair not straight enough). I cannot recall a single incident of teasing although it happened relatively frequently (at least a few times per week), but the incident with the teachers makes my blood boil to this day.

- A biracial person who self-identifies as black, but is often perceived as not being black

That is your experience and I have to respect that. However, don't dismiss other people's experiences. Just like you it was the teachers who mistreated me the most. The only difference in my case is that it was the black teachers. They ignored me when I raised my hands, they isolated me in the classroom, and quite a few said some racist things to me. Also, having black girls who wanted to brutally beat me up all because of the shade of my skin wasn't a pleasant experience as well. Some black women go insane when they see biracial women with black men too. My ex-boyfriend and I used to get harassed all the time by black women. Even is own mother told him, "You couldn't find a real sista!" These negaive incidents over the years really set the tone for me in regards to black women in general. I don't think that I would ever fully trust a them.

Please don't tell your girls to marry white women because of your experience. That's your experience. I'm AA so I don't have any knowledge of African culture like your MIL seems to have. Totally different than an AA experience. There are jerks in every race. My sister's ex husband is white and he is the biggest asshole in the world. I would never tell my nieces to avoid white men because of their dad. It just so happens that my dad was just an incredible father and husband. They look to him as their example.

Also, I have to tell you... I have been called the nanny with my kids and it absolutely pissed me off. It's as if I could not have produced my light skinned curly haired kid. Or, do I look like a nanny? or the lawyer that I am. It makes me crazy. It's the reason we live in DC now and not in our previous neighborhood in Chevy Chase, MD.

It's true that I would prefer my sons to marry black women. No question. I feel like we need to preserve our culture. But I'm not crazy when I see biracial couples and I certainly would not disrespect my son's wives or their families if the chose differently. My sons are total feminists. I raised them that way!! They will be incredible catches for the right PROGRESSIVE woman. I'm proud that they've been going to pro choice marches since they were toddlers.

That all to do with Skin Tone and nothing to do with you being biracial....light skinned black women went through the same thing, even though both parents were black...people like Whitney Houston talk about having the same issue. Also dark skin black women can tell the same tale of being ignored and having biracial and fair skinned black kids chosen over them...ur story is not unique..get over it and move on everyone else has

Thankfully, I have moved on. I thank people like you for helping to realize that I made the best decision years ago to disassociate myself from mean spirited people. It's been a blessing. I'm living my life and I'm loving it! However, I will continue to warn people to be cautious about miserable people like you.

Thank you all for continuing this honest and mostly constructive discussion (the "get over it and move on" pp being the exception). But so much discrimination is present in both the black and Latino communities that has to do with skin color, the straightness of hair, etc, most white people do not have a clue about it. Fortunately I had enough (non-white) women in college willing to let me into their lives so I knew what I was getting into by marrying a non-white person and having a biracial family. Let me say, I thought I knew what I was getting into. Because even if you know the types of experiences your kids might have, it is of no use unless they talk to you. And as they become teenagers it becomes very difficult to get them to talk about anything and especially if you have girls they are at one of their most vulnerable ages. My kids are going to a very diverse school, and I view that both as a blessing and a source of worry. I for one based on some of the experiences cited above (especially the way black women responded to anyone lighter than them of any race who is dating one of "their" men), would never want my girls (who are white/Latino but look completely Latino) to date black boys. I just think it might cause too much chaos in their lives from the "sistas" who otherwise are extremely nice to them and include them at school. And from college I kind of get that - the way it was explained to me (about white women etc was that there are so few educated black men that basically you are stealing them).

I also don't know what response my girls would get from a white family whose boy brought them home (if the way my family reacted when I first brought my husband home is any indication, they are in for a world of hurt - even if it is phrased as "it's not that we are racist honey, just think about society and your kids.........). And as my daughter said at the wise age of 5 after another blow out with me and my MIL "grandma wanted Daddy to marry a nice Latin (country included) girl who would wash his feet." So it definitely goes both ways. But I don't think in high school there would be much of a problem, partially because there are so few white boys who cares?

Yes a lot of this has to do with skin tone, but the origin of that skin tone was/is of course racial mixing however far back it goes (my husband has an African great grandma, and you can see it in his hair). So being biracial in your own nuclear family raises some kind of issues, while being the color you are (and for Latinos speaking or not speaking the type of Spanish you speak) in the outside world raises other issues. When we went back to college some people who had not known we were dating did not realize that my kids were my kids they looked so Latin. They knew they were his kids and commented on how I was so "great" with his daughter. I found that funny. But when my kids were younger and lighter my MIL got really upset when people thought she was my daughter's nanny(and I still don't know why that pushed her buttons). My only experience with discrimination (before I learned my MIL had really wanted someone of her nationality and color) was seriously dating a Jewish boy whose parents started flipping out at some point.

But I naively thought that I could traipse into my husband's family with no problem. And I was wrong. The whole time I was being judged, assumptions were being made about the meaning of things I said because I was white, and I felt at home and said what I felt and tried to become one of them and failed. At least now they are starting to be nice and see my kids again but me they don't want to see at all. So that is my story, and as my kids grow up they will hear both sides of it (they have already seen both sides), and I will say it was a culture clash and my husband will say it was because I was an entitled bitch (we are not going to stay married). So I do worry about my kids, and where they will fit in now and in the end, because I made a mistake. Since they have both in them I worry they will be screwed no matter which culture they choose. But naturally I think mine would be safer and less sexist, 20 years in.... I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home.....

Sorry lady but you have issues, "I am going to encourage my girls to marry white liberated men who will do the dishes and clean and change diapers and it won't turn out later that they and their mom hate my girls for it.... because in some cultures the men still rule at home..."

No you should just want your girls to marry a man of any race who will love, cherish, and care for them whatever their race. If you tell your girls this YOU are screwing them up!!!

Yeah except it really doesn't work in Latin cultures where MIL's really want a Latin wife for their precious sons, where extended families are important -- all of this has ruined our marriage, including the fact that my MIL (who hates me) lives with us and spews poison about my parents and tells lies about me. So you are talking about a culture that I did not detect an iota of in this man in college, and then years later (talking 15) he expects an obedient wife, especially in front of his MIL. It works great when as someone described all interactions between the families are positive, but my basic hindsight (for the combination of a WASP and a second generation (MIL was dirt poor and first in family to graduate from college) Latin family, is that my dh is not recognizable as the liberated kid he was in college, and that culture clashes are hard, and since marriage is hard anyway, having that added potential barrier (which was a total blind spot for me because his father's family, who I spent a lot of time with before having a single conversation with MIL, loved me but they live in another country and we see them very rarely now but I saw them every vacation pre marriage). So that is all I have to say. I think certain cultures tend (and of course this is a huge generalization) not to have kicked the patriarchal aspects out so well and they emerge when children arrive, when who is working changes, etc....... And the older generation has a lot to do with it. So maybe it will be different for my girls. But anyway my husband ironically would not let them date black boys anyway - he is a racist in that way!

Lol--if your husband forbids your daughters to date black guys, that's exactly who they'll (secretly at first) date and marry. Whomever you fear/hate/forbid will end up in your family...mark my words. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:02 again. Not sure it's wise to enter the fray again, especially about the racial identity issue, but here goes:

My parents, immigrants, moved Stateside in the sixties--mother is black; father is a different race. My parents said pretty much nada about race to my siblings and I growing up. However, we were raised in a black neighborhood, attended a black church, etc., so culturally we grew up with a mostly black American experience (along with some contribution from each of my parents' countries of origin). I have sort of a Jennifer Beals look, whereas my sibs are several shades darker, but none of that seemed to matter much.

Black Americans are definitely not the only group that have their issues with color, European admixture, etc. My father's ethnic group has tons of issues with color. I'm proud of both sides of my heritage, but I've always identified moreso as black. My siblings and I would've been laughed out of town had we tried to identify solely as my father's ethnic group. I've found a lot more acceptance among black Americans.

Interestingly, because of my racially ambiguous look, I'm not readily identifiable as black--and I've been privy to racist comments by non-blacks (luckily, I can probably count these times on one hand). I think the OP's child may face the same issues, since being 1/4 black he may not look phenotypically black. It is then up to him whether he wants to challenge people on their comments--which would mean disclosing that he is part black, which can be awkward, since they've just offended him--or just sort of take note and move on, keeping with a "fly on the wall" status.

I'm not really sure what my point is--I guess just to defend black Americans a bit, and to say there is a level of complexity to issues of race and racial identity that can't easily be captured by sweeping generalizations about AAs, biracials, or whites. There is definitely a historical context related to the "peculiar institution" of slavery that influences racial identity for people with some African ancestry in this country. Sorry to get all Henry Louis Gates, but it's true. I get that some PPs have had painful experiences--while we can extrapolate a bit from these, hopefully we all each realize that there are good aspects to all of these cultural groups, and that our own experience won't necessarily apply for others.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:21:02 again. Not sure it's wise to enter the fray again, especially about the racial identity issue, but here goes:

My parents, immigrants, moved Stateside in the sixties--mother is black; father is a different race. My parents said pretty much nada about race to my siblings and I growing up. However, we were raised in a black neighborhood, attended a black church, etc., so culturally we grew up with a mostly black American experience (along with some contribution from each of my parents' countries of origin). I have sort of a Jennifer Beals look, whereas my sibs are several shades darker, but none of that seemed to matter much.

Black Americans are definitely not the only group that have their issues with color, European admixture, etc. My father's ethnic group has tons of issues with color. I'm proud of both sides of my heritage, but I've always identified moreso as black. My siblings and I would've been laughed out of town had we tried to identify solely as my father's ethnic group. I've found a lot more acceptance among black Americans.

Interestingly, because of my racially ambiguous look, I'm not readily identifiable as black--and I've been privy to racist comments by non-blacks (luckily, I can probably count these times on one hand). I think the OP's child may face the same issues, since being 1/4 black he may not look phenotypically black. It is then up to him whether he wants to challenge people on their comments--which would mean disclosing that he is part black, which can be awkward, since they've just offended him--or just sort of take note and move on, keeping with a "fly on the wall" status.

I'm not really sure what my point is--I guess just to defend black Americans a bit, and to say there is a level of complexity to issues of race and racial identity that can't easily be captured by sweeping generalizations about AAs, biracials, or whites. There is definitely a historical context related to the "peculiar institution" of slavery that influences racial identity for people with some African ancestry in this country. Sorry to get all Henry Louis Gates, but it's true. I get that some PPs have had painful experiences--while we can extrapolate a bit from these, hopefully we all each realize that there are good aspects to all of these cultural groups, and that our own experience won't necessarily apply for others.

Thank you!

I have a feeling your Dad is Puerto Rican just like my husband. And for the record, I would have no problem with my girls marrying black men as long as I knew that the entire family on both sides accepted their choice and did not 20 years later start spewing venom in front of their poor kids. And it ought to be easier because there are plenty of Black Puerto Ricans. I just want to make sure they also keep up their Spanish (I became fluent, one of the reasons his non-stateside but more Americanized father's family likes me, while MIL downstairs does not - she won't speak Spanish with our kids) because I had friends in college both from NYC and LA who were teased about not knowing their "native" language by people of their same "ethnic" group.

It sure is a complicated world out there. I just kind of keep hoping that we all keep mixing so much that it becomes less of huge deal - as a mom of biracial bicultural kids I would love to see that process just keep going and going and going until almost nobody knew or cared about what box to check.