Family life sucks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does suck. I was not planning on having kids because I knew it would be hard and stressful and not bring that much joy for the sacrifices required. I have two kids despite my ex agreeing to no kids before getting married. I love my kids, but despite being a parent just as much as I anticipated that I might. It’s like a prison sentence. I’m a woman by the way. I really don’t recommend having kids unless it’s like the only thing you want to do in life. It is absolutely not worth the sacrifice that is required, and it’s much harder now than it was in previous generations.

YOU CHOSE THAT. Stop acting like he forced you to get pregnant and have multiple kids. Take some agency over your life. Jeez.

I said “no, I do not want to get pregnant” for the first that day; I had 103° fever and have been sick for a week and was off the pill for two days and he knew exactly what he was doing. Feel better? It is called sexual coercion bordering on marital rape. I was trapped geographically and could not leave until I got back to the DC area where my job is and that took eight years of waiting; the second happened only one other time years later that we had sex. He would not use protection. We had not had sex in years. He killed the marriage with forcing me with the first. Why do you think I got divorced? 🙄

I don't need to feel better because my life isn't a dumpster fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does suck. I was not planning on having kids because I knew it would be hard and stressful and not bring that much joy for the sacrifices required. I have two kids despite my ex agreeing to no kids before getting married. I love my kids, but despite being a parent just as much as I anticipated that I might. It’s like a prison sentence. I’m a woman by the way. I really don’t recommend having kids unless it’s like the only thing you want to do in life. It is absolutely not worth the sacrifice that is required, and it’s much harder now than it was in previous generations.

YOU CHOSE THAT. Stop acting like he forced you to get pregnant and have multiple kids. Take some agency over your life. Jeez.

I said “no, I do not want to get pregnant” for the first that day; I had 103° fever and have been sick for a week and was off the pill for two days and he knew exactly what he was doing. Feel better? It is called sexual coercion bordering on marital rape. I was trapped geographically and could not leave until I got back to the DC area where my job is and that took eight years of waiting; the second happened only one other time years later that we had sex. He would not use protection. We had not had sex in years. He killed the marriage with forcing me with the first. Why do you think I got divorced? 🙄

I'm thinking why the hell didn't you get divorced after the first one.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Np I have friends overseas. The pay isn’t 100% of your salary on maternity leave (and their pay is already lower). So once they have a baby, their salaries take a big hit. They can’t return to work earlier because it’s stigmatized and daycare don’t take babies before 1 (one friend mentioned before 3 but idk if that’s true). Once kids are school aged, they have the same issues that moms have here where school ends at 3 but work ends at 5, however aftercare’s aren’t plentiful. Many stick to one kid for financial and logistical reasons. My Norwegian friends own their own condo, but it’s a 2 bedroom. They only had one kid for space reasons. I’m sure none of those reasons are insurmountable for people who really want kids but maternity leave isn’t this panacea that it’s purported to be.

It’s this. The woman is assumed to stay home for a year and the pay is low if you have a white collar job. It is a big financial hit in Scandinavian countries where housing costs are much higher than here. It also seriously derails the woman’s career.

No, the woman isn't assumed to stay home for a year. That's kind of the point of the Norwegian model. Every couple gets a year of paid parental leave (they can do 100% paid for 49 total weeks or 80% for 59 weeks). Mothers have a 15 week "quota," and six of those weeks must be taken immediately following birth. The father also gets a 15 week "quota" that can not be given to the mother. Then there is a joint 16-20 weeks that can be shared between both parents. This strongly encourages fathers to take a minimum of 15 weeks paid leave.

As a result, 90% of fathers in Norway take some parental leave. And about 70% take at least the full 15 weeks. And unsurprisingly, Norwegian fathers spend about 33% more time caring for their children and doing unpaid housework than American fathers.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2023/08/22/1194946948/im-a-new-dad-heres-why-im-taking-more-parental-leave-than-my-wife

https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/en/pay-and-engagement-of-employees/permisjoner/parental-leave/

https://www.ssb.no/en/kultur-og-fritid/artikler-og-publikasjoner/yrkes-og-familiearbeid-i-barnefasen

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm

This doesn't surprise me much then because my husband took the first four weeks off with me, then took more after I went back to work after 16 weeks. From day one he did as much as I did (we had twins who were premature but not in the NICU and they were on a mix of formula and pumped milk) and 15 years later he still does. I get that only women can breastfeed, but I think a lot of you do yourselves a disservice by not having your husbands do as much as possible in the beginning (pump some and let your husband feed the babies!) then you've set the tone for the rest of your lives.

Pumping is not the same experience for everyone. For me, I didn't pump much because I found it really unpleasant (yes I tried different pumps and pump parts) and time consuming. We were also advised not to start pumping until baby was 6 weeks old.

Blaming women for their husbands not doing their part as a parent because the WOMEN did not do extra labor during the most labor intensive phase of parenting is a special kind of misogyny.

Way to miss the point. Enjoy your unhappy marriage I guess!

Nope, agree with the PP. If a woman is pumping milk (or the family is using formula) then yes, of course, the DH should be taking on more of the feeding duties. But if she's EBFing, for whatever reason, he should just do other stuff. Breastfeeding doesn't prevent a man from caretaking, that's absurd. Change diapers, get her dressed, give her baths, hold the baby when she cries, pay attention to her. Be the one looking up what to do about a fever or checking when the next pediatricians appointment is. Research nap schedules and initiate getting the baby on one. Do all the planning around his parents visiting or visiting them to meet the baby. And hey, why not check with mom while she's breastfeeding. Maybe being an around the clock food source is making her hungry or dehydrated -- can you make a sandwich or get her some water?

The idea that women somehow get in the way of men participating fully in parenting at the baby stage is just misogynist nonsense. There's lot to do. Do it. If you're unsure what to do, ask (your wife, the doctor, your own parents, friends with kids). Be a grown up. Take initiative.

Anyone claiming that men are just desperate to be fully involved parents if only their wives would pump more milk is a moron. Kids start eating some solids at 6 months! Breastfeeding is barely a blip and only one part of childcare. Honestly.

Well, you also missed the point of the post but I hope you had fun with your ranting.

I am the first PP that called you misogynist. You said, "I get that only women can breastfeed, but I think a lot of you do yourselves a disservice by not having your husbands do as much as possible in the beginning (pump some and let your husband feed the babies!) then you've set the tone for the rest of your lives." I and the other PP are saying your solution of pumping doesn't work for everyone and it is ridiculous to suggest, as you definitely did, that by not doing extra work during the baby stage we somehow set the stage for our husbands to be less involved. Men do not need to feed an infant to be involved fathers, and if they choose not to be involved by let's say not wanting to wash pump parts or wake up early to take care of the baby or want to send the baby to daycare sick because they can't be bothered to care for a sick baby, then that is 100% on them.

So what's your point? Of course a man who won't help sucks, who is arguing against that? Some women find pumping (which can be done while doing other things) to be less work than breastfeeding. I didn't like pumping so it wasn't a solution for me. I have an involved husband who has done half (not of each thing but of everything) since our kids were born. I'm not sure where your anger is coming from but it seems like the point is that men who do more childcare in the beginning end up being more involved over time so why are you disagreeing with that idea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I will be a dissenter here. I love being a parent. Yes, there are always issues and problems. But that is often true in life whether you have kids or not. I'm in my 40s and literally everyone I know has dealt with heavy and stressful things in the last few years, most of which aren't even child related (and this includes many child free friends). Health issues, work issues, aging parent issues, money issues, etc. Life can be challenging.

But for me, even when my kid is having issues (frequently) or just being a pill (also frequent) or I'm annoyed with my DH for not helping enough (common), family life is the best part of my life. We'll pile into the couch for movie night or go out to dinner, and I'll just think how lucky I am to have them and how much comfort and fulfillment they bring me. I find being a parent, and raising a child with my DH, to be very fulfilling. I have zero regrets except to sometimes wonder if we should have had a second.

You feel this way because you only have one child. When my second came along, I realized I was on vacation with just having one.

Did you know the number of kids you have is a choice? No one made you have two.

1. Near marital rape (I did not choose that)
2. No sex in years. It was one time. I did not think I was ovulating. I was 37. Who would’ve thought the odds of sex one time in years and 37 would be 100% chance of getting pregnant like sex one time in a year at 34. Um, no one.

It’s not like I was having sex like a normal person on regular basis. I literally had sex twice in about seven year and both resulted in kids.

I am fifty and I still use condoms so that I won't get pregnant. 37 year olds can absolutely get pregnant after one time of unprotected sex. I'm not sure who taught you that you can't get pregnant if you only have sex once.

Again, I was tracking my ovulation because we weren’t having sex for years and he refused to use a condom. It was one time. Literally, I thought I was in a safe day the only time we did it in years he wouldn’t use a condom and I wasn’t going back on a pill for a no- sex marriage that was on the brink of divorced the entire time. I’ve been on the pill since I divorced. I’m now in my late 40s and I can still get pregnant.

Ah, so you do know how to use birth control!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Np I have friends overseas. The pay isn’t 100% of your salary on maternity leave (and their pay is already lower). So once they have a baby, their salaries take a big hit. They can’t return to work earlier because it’s stigmatized and daycare don’t take babies before 1 (one friend mentioned before 3 but idk if that’s true). Once kids are school aged, they have the same issues that moms have here where school ends at 3 but work ends at 5, however aftercare’s aren’t plentiful. Many stick to one kid for financial and logistical reasons. My Norwegian friends own their own condo, but it’s a 2 bedroom. They only had one kid for space reasons. I’m sure none of those reasons are insurmountable for people who really want kids but maternity leave isn’t this panacea that it’s purported to be.

It’s this. The woman is assumed to stay home for a year and the pay is low if you have a white collar job. It is a big financial hit in Scandinavian countries where housing costs are much higher than here. It also seriously derails the woman’s career.

No, the woman isn't assumed to stay home for a year. That's kind of the point of the Norwegian model. Every couple gets a year of paid parental leave (they can do 100% paid for 49 total weeks or 80% for 59 weeks). Mothers have a 15 week "quota," and six of those weeks must be taken immediately following birth. The father also gets a 15 week "quota" that can not be given to the mother. Then there is a joint 16-20 weeks that can be shared between both parents. This strongly encourages fathers to take a minimum of 15 weeks paid leave.

As a result, 90% of fathers in Norway take some parental leave. And about 70% take at least the full 15 weeks. And unsurprisingly, Norwegian fathers spend about 33% more time caring for their children and doing unpaid housework than American fathers.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2023/08/22/1194946948/im-a-new-dad-heres-why-im-taking-more-parental-leave-than-my-wife

https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/en/pay-and-engagement-of-employees/permisjoner/parental-leave/

https://www.ssb.no/en/kultur-og-fritid/artikler-og-publikasjoner/yrkes-og-familiearbeid-i-barnefasen

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm

This doesn't surprise me much then because my husband took the first four weeks off with me, then took more after I went back to work after 16 weeks. From day one he did as much as I did (we had twins who were premature but not in the NICU and they were on a mix of formula and pumped milk) and 15 years later he still does. I get that only women can breastfeed, but I think a lot of you do yourselves a disservice by not having your husbands do as much as possible in the beginning (pump some and let your husband feed the babies!) then you've set the tone for the rest of your lives.

Pumping is not the same experience for everyone. For me, I didn't pump much because I found it really unpleasant (yes I tried different pumps and pump parts) and time consuming. We were also advised not to start pumping until baby was 6 weeks old.

Blaming women for their husbands not doing their part as a parent because the WOMEN did not do extra labor during the most labor intensive phase of parenting is a special kind of misogyny.

Way to miss the point. Enjoy your unhappy marriage I guess!

Nope, agree with the PP. If a woman is pumping milk (or the family is using formula) then yes, of course, the DH should be taking on more of the feeding duties. But if she's EBFing, for whatever reason, he should just do other stuff. Breastfeeding doesn't prevent a man from caretaking, that's absurd. Change diapers, get her dressed, give her baths, hold the baby when she cries, pay attention to her. Be the one looking up what to do about a fever or checking when the next pediatricians appointment is. Research nap schedules and initiate getting the baby on one. Do all the planning around his parents visiting or visiting them to meet the baby. And hey, why not check with mom while she's breastfeeding. Maybe being an around the clock food source is making her hungry or dehydrated -- can you make a sandwich or get her some water?

The idea that women somehow get in the way of men participating fully in parenting at the baby stage is just misogynist nonsense. There's lot to do. Do it. If you're unsure what to do, ask (your wife, the doctor, your own parents, friends with kids). Be a grown up. Take initiative.

Anyone claiming that men are just desperate to be fully involved parents if only their wives would pump more milk is a moron. Kids start eating some solids at 6 months! Breastfeeding is barely a blip and only one part of childcare. Honestly.

Well, you also missed the point of the post but I hope you had fun with your ranting.

I am the first PP that called you misogynist. You said, "I get that only women can breastfeed, but I think a lot of you do yourselves a disservice by not having your husbands do as much as possible in the beginning (pump some and let your husband feed the babies!) then you've set the tone for the rest of your lives." I and the other PP are saying your solution of pumping doesn't work for everyone and it is ridiculous to suggest, as you definitely did, that by not doing extra work during the baby stage we somehow set the stage for our husbands to be less involved. Men do not need to feed an infant to be involved fathers, and if they choose not to be involved by let's say not wanting to wash pump parts or wake up early to take care of the baby or want to send the baby to daycare sick because they can't be bothered to care for a sick baby, then that is 100% on them.

DP. Agree with this. The most unequal marriages I know are where the DW EBF and both have demanding careers. It’s difficult to recover from the DW being the sole food source (and that’s the main job having a baby) for an entire year.

The push to EBF made sense once I had kids. The claims it’s “free” as though my time is worth nothing. It’s the patriarchy trying to use our labor. Formula is freedom and it allowed women to leave their babies and earn a living. During my own postpartum I could go workout or do something for myself without needing to pump,’ leave instructions or return by a certain time. In comparison, my EBF friends appeared to be in prison.

Hard disagree. Men can support EBF, recognize that EBF is a ton of labor so they do everything else for a few months, and then as the baby needs fewer and fewer feedings they do more. Men are sentient, intelligent life forms and can figure it out, they do not need to be told and if they don't step up without being yelled at that is on them, not on their wives.

If this is true then why are so many women on here complaining about their husbands?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does suck. I was not planning on having kids because I knew it would be hard and stressful and not bring that much joy for the sacrifices required. I have two kids despite my ex agreeing to no kids before getting married. I love my kids, but despite being a parent just as much as I anticipated that I might. It’s like a prison sentence. I’m a woman by the way. I really don’t recommend having kids unless it’s like the only thing you want to do in life. It is absolutely not worth the sacrifice that is required, and it’s much harder now than it was in previous generations.

YOU CHOSE THAT. Stop acting like he forced you to get pregnant and have multiple kids. Take some agency over your life. Jeez.

I said “no, I do not want to get pregnant” for the first that day; I had 103° fever and have been sick for a week and was off the pill for two days and he knew exactly what he was doing. Feel better? It is called sexual coercion bordering on marital rape. I was trapped geographically and could not leave until I got back to the DC area where my job is and that took eight years of waiting; the second happened only one other time years later that we had sex. He would not use protection. We had not had sex in years. He killed the marriage with forcing me with the first. Why do you think I got divorced? 🙄

I'm thinking why the hell didn't you get divorced after the first one.

Because I could not get stuck in the state we were living in. I was geographically trapped for about eight years. That is why.

[Anonymous]

It is definitely hard in a way I wasn’t prepared for but I do really love family life. I have 2 kids, a part time job and a husband who earns a lot so I feel very lucky. I need to find a way to not worry quite so much all the time, but otherwise things are pretty good, particularly now my kids are late elementary school.

We don’t have much family help but my parents will pitch in occasionally. They really don’t understand my kids and it’s kind of triggering to see my dad teasing my kids in a way I remember hating, so we don’t have them help all that much even though my mom is fine. It is what it is.