Redshirting consequences at Lafayette

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

12-13 MONTHS older than him obviously

Yeah, but he has an early June birthday... he was WELL in the range of DCPS for his grade. The kids who were 12 or 13 months older were kids whose parents red-shirted THEM and upended the order.

Sorry, early JULY birthday.

Your post would be a lot more compelling if you didn't forget when your kid's birthday is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sayonara, DCPS. I’m not sticking around for the first-grade classrooms chaotic with boys who just finished pre-K. If any kid suffers, I hope it’s isolated to the kids of the parents who forced those boys to sit in those 1st grade classrooms. But alas, it’ll likely be most of the classroom that suffers.

I used to believe in public education. Now I know public education isn’t terribly focused on education.

+1 to this

Also, where are these principals? If they are not using their discretion and fighting for these kids, how about their staff? I can't imagine the teachers would be happy with this outcome.

I imagine after COVID most principles and teachers don't care to get involved in parent fights. To those who lobbied so hard for this change, it's policies like these, that have nothing to do with improving the quality of the classroom, that drive people not just away from DCPS but also from supporting public education. You may be winning the fight, but you're losing the war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

ALL the kids are 18? Come on. There are variety in Privates, too. It's a range. In private is also a mix of redshirts and "typical" age. My kid will graduate at 17 and two boys in her class will be 19.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it sounds like one of the families moved into DC over a year ago and is trying to use that as an excuse. No explanation why they didn’t enroll in K this year.

They complain a lot that they didn’t learn that the school wouldn’t let them enroll in K next year until just months ago (so they didn’t have a chance to choose to enroll in K at the beginning of last year) — but did any of them check with the school that they could hold their kid back? It sounds like they all just unilaterally decided to redshirt and now are surprised pikachus.

Or you could just mind your own business and not worry about other people’s kids.

I don’t understand what the big deal is. Let them redshirt if they want to. Pages and pages of nothing burger.

So, my kid who is on the young side but fits the age criteria has to be a confidence-builder prop for your redshirted kid who is 13 months older. Eff that, go to private school if you want to play games like that.

Exactly. Absent a genuine developmental reason, redshirting disadvantages the kids who enroll when they are supposed to.

How are those kids disadvantaged? They know what they know, focus more on your kids knowledge instead of their rank in the class.

I’d rather my kid is average in a class of brilliant kids rather than the smartest in a class full of dummies.

The held back kids are also at a disadvantage as they are not with age appropriate expectations or academics.

The expectations and academics of the modern-day kindergarten classroom are not age appropriate. That's the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

Huh? In DCPS, with a September 30th cutoff and no redshirting allowed (theoretically), the oldest possible kids (which would be October 1st babies) would be 18 at graduation and turn 19 about 3 1/2 months late. The youngest kids (September 30th babies) would be 17 at graduation and turn 18 about 3 1/2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

Huh? In DCPS, with a September 30th cutoff and no redshirting allowed (theoretically), the oldest possible kids (which would be October 1st babies) would be 18 at graduation and turn 19 about 3 1/2 months late. The youngest kids (September 30th babies) would be 17 at graduation and turn 18 about 3 1/2.

PP is also bonkers about "all private school kids graduating at age 18. It's a range there too. My kid will be 18, but her class will range from 17-19 because of redshirting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

And, wonder why this is and why the school struggles to teach younger kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it sounds like one of the families moved into DC over a year ago and is trying to use that as an excuse. No explanation why they didn’t enroll in K this year.

They complain a lot that they didn’t learn that the school wouldn’t let them enroll in K next year until just months ago (so they didn’t have a chance to choose to enroll in K at the beginning of last year) — but did any of them check with the school that they could hold their kid back? It sounds like they all just unilaterally decided to redshirt and now are surprised pikachus.

Or you could just mind your own business and not worry about other people’s kids.

I don’t understand what the big deal is. Let them redshirt if they want to. Pages and pages of nothing burger.

So, my kid who is on the young side but fits the age criteria has to be a confidence-builder prop for your redshirted kid who is 13 months older. Eff that, go to private school if you want to play games like that.

Exactly. Absent a genuine developmental reason, redshirting disadvantages the kids who enroll when they are supposed to.

How are those kids disadvantaged? They know what they know, focus more on your kids knowledge instead of their rank in the class.

I’d rather my kid is average in a class of brilliant kids rather than the smartest in a class full of dummies.

The held back kids are also at a disadvantage as they are not with age appropriate expectations or academics.

The expectations and academics of the modern-day kindergarten classroom are not age appropriate. That's the issue.

Of course they are? My kid has sn and if anything it helped. Why did you not prepare your kids if you thought it would be too hard for them?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.[/quote]

this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position. [/quote]

12-13 MONTHS older than him obviously[/quote]

Yeah, but he has an early June birthday... he was WELL in the range of DCPS for his grade. The kids who were 12 or 13 months older were kids whose parents red-shirted THEM and upended the order.[/quote]

DP here- my DC is mid August. The October kids in the class were not red-shirted, they simply followed the cutoff age policy. They are 13.5 months older than DC. This is the current system. [/quote]

The difference between a mid-August birthday and an early-October birthday is 10.5 months.[/quote]

DP thant he one wiht the bad math.

My DS had a classmate who was born Sept 25, 2012 and another classmate who was born Aug 5, 2011. That's more than 13 months. Can't speak for the previous math, but it does happen. [/quote]

Sure — it happens when people redshirt. In your example, in DC, Larlo born in August 2011 would be a grade above Larla born in September 2012. [/quote]

And now Lario makes Laria's life hell.[/quote]

Larlo is more likely to disrupt Larla when Larlo and Larla are both six, and Larlo has half the attention span. When Larlo is seven, he can sit just as long, and Larla learns better. That’s why most privates refuse to admit young boys.

Honestly just to private. I used to be for public education, but there’s so much waste spent discussing this stuff. Private schools have this all down. The classes are well-constructed, and the kids go to good colleges.

Or else charter schools all the way.[/quote]

Kids can sit. It’s easier on thes hook. It’s not about the kids at all. If they cannot teach age appropriate kids they should not be teaching. [/quote]

Nope. Boys and girls on average have different abilities to sit. If you want your daughter to have the best education, you don’t want young, disruptive boys in her class. This is the other reason why private (and perhaps charter) is better. Policies are put together intelligently and not based on energy-depleting comments like “kids can sit.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/10/boys-delayed-entry-school-start-redshirting/671238/[/quote]

DCPS is such a metaphor. The learning environment is better with kids of different ages and similar maturities. But screw all of that and create a worse learning environment because learning is supposedly a competition. Forget that the rest of the world doesn’t operate like DC.

I hope every single little girl whose 1st grade education is disrupted by a young boy who skipped kindergarten no less! Has a mom who fought to end red-shirting.

Meanwhile, we will skip over to private with the quiet classrooms and recesses scheduled for kids of similar maturities. Our whole neighborhood is private now. Great job, DCPS, by making it easier for private kids to be more competitive.[/quote]

First it was a civil rights issue and now allowing redshirting is a gender equity issue? Come on. Can girls not redshirt them because this pseudo science says that would actually give them a leg up right?

Your whole neighborhood is private because of racism, classism, and capitalism. It isn't because DCPS enforces a standard age to enroll.[/quote]

Now it is. Some of the last few holdouts applied late to privates, because DCPS cares less about learning environments than anything else.

A girl who is too mature for her cohort will be bored. She will be better off challenged and learning early.

Creating the right learning environment isn’t about having older and older kids. It’s about having kids who learn well together who need the same scheduled breaks and benefit from the same teacher in the same class.

Seriously. I hope every single first grader and kindergartner who has to suffer from immature kids in the classroom has a parent who fought for it, because they want their child advantaged. Backfired didn’t it?[/quote]

Thee kids are not too mature if they are a year or two older than their peers. Their maturity should be based off their age, not grade and you don’t help maturity by holding them back as then they don’t have age appropriate peers which developmentally hurts them.

[Anonymous]

An eleven month old and a 13 month old might both be early walkers. If you’re having a class for early walkers, it would make sense for the 10 month old and 13 month old to start together. (Not that this class would exist. It would be silly).

If you’re teaching math, it would make sense to have all the kids ready to learn the same concepts at the same time in the same way with the same attention. This is what private schools do that apparently is beyond the comprehension of public school age advocates. This is why the classrooms are so much more chaotic than private. Because the people designing them are not focused on learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An eleven month old and a 13 month old might both be early walkers. If you’re having a class for early walkers, it would make sense for the 10 month old and 13 month old to start together. (Not that this class would exist. It would be silly).

If you’re teaching math, it would make sense to have all the kids ready to learn the same concepts at the same time in the same way with the same attention. This is what private schools do that apparently is beyond the comprehension of public school age advocates. This is why the classrooms are so much more chaotic than private. Because the people designing them are not focused on learning.

A private school is able to have smaller classrooms and not admit or kick out kids with behavioral or learning disabilities. And they absolutely do. A lot. Same with charters. Your local DCPS school cannot. Of course private schools can skew classes, and do, in no small part to help themselves and their test scores and rankings and alumni donations.

Comparing what a private school can do with how a public school manages to try and find a balance is counterproductive to your argument.

No one, and I mean no one, is telling Lafayette parents they can't send their six year olds to private kindergarten. They are welcome to do whatever with private school tuition they please. But there are so many functional and logistical differences it's silly and offensive to claim that because a private school does something a public school should do the same.

Also public schools do have different levels of math and reading they teach to kids within one grade? Whittier, for example, uses Title 1 funding to pay for both a reading acceleration and separate reading intervention teacher to address needs of both students. And the age, which yeah there has to be some kind of cutoff, is not what places kids in either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An eleven month old and a 13 month old might both be early walkers. If you’re having a class for early walkers, it would make sense for the 10 month old and 13 month old to start together. (Not that this class would exist. It would be silly).

If you’re teaching math, it would make sense to have all the kids ready to learn the same concepts at the same time in the same way with the same attention. This is what private schools do that apparently is beyond the comprehension of public school age advocates. This is why the classrooms are so much more chaotic than private. Because the people designing them are not focused on learning.

A private school is able to have smaller classrooms and not admit or kick out kids with behavioral or learning disabilities. And they absolutely do. A lot. Same with charters. Your local DCPS school cannot. Of course private schools can skew classes, and do, in no small part to help themselves and their test scores and rankings and alumni donations.

Comparing what a private school can do with how a public school manages to try and find a balance is counterproductive to your argument.

No one, and I mean no one, is telling Lafayette parents they can't send their six year olds to private kindergarten. They are welcome to do whatever with private school tuition they please. But there are so many functional and logistical differences it's silly and offensive to claim that because a private school does something a public school should do the same.

Also public schools do have different levels of math and reading they teach to kids within one grade? Whittier, for example, uses Title 1 funding to pay for both a reading acceleration and separate reading intervention teacher to address needs of both students. And the age, which yeah there has to be some kind of cutoff, is not what places kids in either.

Fine, there are a million kids public schools have to take, but they don’t have to take a disruptive child who would not be disruptive if put just one class down. They don’t have to make their lives more challenging than it is. Many public school systems make his adjustment easily. In fact many public schools will also accelerate kids that are ready. This is just red tape that DCPS is taping themselves with.

And this is why public loses support, because it tapes itself with red tape that doesn’t benefit education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.

Not at my son's private school. Everyone will be 18.

At DCPS, students will range from 17-19.
this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position.

Just so you realize though, there are now kids in his class that are 13+ months younger than him. I'm glad you worked it out but this is one of the arguments against redshirting is that it's a never ending cycle with people constantly fighting not to be the youngest.

There's no question some kids do need to be held back, but a blanket allowance to start K late is what is being asked for by these parents and it's just not conducive to the system as a whole.

well, actually, now he's in a private school that has control over the ages of the students in each grade and the flexibility to build the class as they see fit. His birthday is early July, and the youngest kid in the class is nine months younger than him.

But, you are not wrong...

That said "blanket red shirting" is just shifting the age requirements for grades. I don't really know how to fix DCPS' system but it does seem to have some problems.

The youngest kid in the class has an early April birthday?

I feel like this is just proving why DCPS has the policy they do.

I dunno, makes sense to me. On the day of graduation, every kid will be 18.

As it was in DC, some kids would be 18, a number of kids would still be 17 and a few kids would be weeks from turning 19. Seems effed up to me.

Actually no. On the day of graduation, many kids would still be 17.

At my son's private school (where he was redshirted), all kids in the class will be 18 when they graduate. At the DCPS where he was before, he would've been 17 when he graduated while some of his classmates would be days from turning 19.

Huh? In DCPS, with a September 30th cutoff and no redshirting allowed (theoretically), the oldest possible kids (which would be October 1st babies) would be 18 at graduation and turn 19 about 3 1/2 months late. The youngest kids (September 30th babies) would be 17 at graduation and turn 18 about 3 1/2.

Yes, but that's not the way it works is it? Certain people get their kids red-shirted, the rest of us get told "no tolerance for your uppity red-shirting ways".