Redshirting consequences at Lafayette

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.[/quote]

this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position. [/quote]

12-13 MONTHS older than him obviously[/quote]

Yeah, but he has an early June birthday... he was WELL in the range of DCPS for his grade. The kids who were 12 or 13 months older were kids whose parents red-shirted THEM and upended the order.[/quote]

DP here- my DC is mid August. The October kids in the class were not red-shirted, they simply followed the cutoff age policy. They are 13.5 months older than DC. This is the current system. [/quote]

The difference between a mid-August birthday and an early-October birthday is 10.5 months.[/quote]

DP thant he one wiht the bad math.

My DS had a classmate who was born Sept 25, 2012 and another classmate who was born Aug 5, 2011. That's more than 13 months. Can't speak for the previous math, but it does happen. [/quote]

Sure — it happens when people redshirt. In your example, in DC, Larlo born in August 2011 would be a grade above Larla born in September 2012. [/quote]

And now Lario makes Laria's life hell.[/quote]

Larlo is more likely to disrupt Larla when Larlo and Larla are both six, and Larlo has half the attention span. When Larlo is seven, he can sit just as long, and Larla learns better. That’s why most privates refuse to admit young boys.

Honestly just to private. I used to be for public education, but there’s so much waste spent discussing this stuff. Private schools have this all down. The classes are well-constructed, and the kids go to good colleges.

Or else charter schools all the way.[/quote]

Kids can sit. It’s easier on thes hook. It’s not about the kids at all. If they cannot teach age appropriate kids they should not be teaching. [/quote]

Nope. Boys and girls on average have different abilities to sit. If you want your daughter to have the best education, you don’t want young, disruptive boys in her class. This is the other reason why private (and perhaps charter) is better. Policies are put together intelligently and not based on energy-depleting comments like “kids can sit.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/10/boys-delayed-entry-school-start-redshirting/671238/[/quote]

DCPS is such a metaphor. The learning environment is better with kids of different ages and similar maturities. But screw all of that and create a worse learning environment because learning is supposedly a competition. Forget that the rest of the world doesn’t operate like DC.

I hope every single little girl whose 1st grade education is disrupted by a young boy who skipped kindergarten no less! Has a mom who fought to end red-shirting.

Meanwhile, we will skip over to private with the quiet classrooms and recesses scheduled for kids of similar maturities. Our whole neighborhood is private now. Great job, DCPS, by making it easier for private kids to be more competitive.[/quote]

First it was a civil rights issue and now allowing redshirting is a gender equity issue? Come on. Can girls not redshirt them because this pseudo science says that would actually give them a leg up right?

Your whole neighborhood is private because of racism, classism, and capitalism. It isn't because DCPS enforces a standard age to enroll.[/quote]

Now it is. Some of the last few holdouts applied late to privates, because DCPS cares less about learning environments than anything else.

A girl who is too mature for her cohort will be bored. She will be better off challenged and learning early.

Creating the right learning environment isn’t about having older and older kids. It’s about having kids who learn well together who need the same scheduled breaks and benefit from the same teacher in the same class.

Seriously. I hope every single first grader and kindergartner who has to suffer from immature kids in the classroom has a parent who fought for it, because they want their child advantaged. Backfired didn’t it?

[Anonymous]

At this point I am convinced someone must be engaging in a psyop because there's no way anyone thinks these posts are going to make people sympathetic to the Lafayette parents who want to redshirt.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I don't care about redshirting -- there are redshirted kids in my kid's class, it's fine, I don't even thing about it.

However as the parent of a kid with an August birthday, I also think parents worry WAY too much about their kid being youngest. Is it because of that stupid Gladwell book? It's really fine. My august birthday kid (not redshirted) is on the mature side of the grade in some things, on the immature side in others. Does well academically and I've never felt the academics are too much.

I figure most people redshirting are doing so because of some kind of delay and I'm sure that's fine. But the way it gets talked about on here, some parents seem to think that if your kid is the youngest in the grade, they are somehow disadvantaged for life. It's dumb. Kids mature at different rates anyway. Also some kids are on the small side or need extra help in math or reading even if they get he extra year.

I just think a lot of you overthink this. As long as the kids are all around the same age, it's fine, and it's more important to just support your kid at home and address any issues that come up, than worrying that their relative age will somehow be this be-all-end-all advantage or disadvantage. It's really not that big of a deal and becomes less of one as they get older.[/quote]

this was my opinion, until he got to fifth grade, and then the difference in maturity started to pop up, mainly in how much the social order was being decided by the kids who were most confident, had phones first, had video games first, etc. DS was always one of the larger kids in the class but by sixth grade it was getting bad—he was going to school with some kids kids who were 12-13 years older than him—thanks to redshirting!—and it was having a detrimental effect.

We still didn't connect the dots until we applied to a private—for academic not social reasons—and the admissions office pointed out how incredibly young our son was, even before they saw his grades or saw him physically. He red-shirted and is now one of the older kids and it's like night and day. A kid who we always thought was doing fine is now doing great—now the comments from teachers are things like "unusual maturity" and 'really knows who he is" and "confident with the other kids" instead of "he's trying to fit in" and "He'll be okay with a bit more of a confidence boost"...

Obviously not right for everyone and sometimes beign around more mature kids can be a positive experience—if they're the kind of kids who mature into decent people and not mature into bullies. But, some kids can really benefit, especially if they're young for the grade.

Malcom Gladwell's book has nothing to do with this, because it's not about whether all kids will benefit from being an older kid, it's about whether the kids who are younger than their peers—by a substantial margin—in a grade will benefit from not being in that position. [/quote]

12-13 MONTHS older than him obviously[/quote]

Yeah, but he has an early June birthday... he was WELL in the range of DCPS for his grade. The kids who were 12 or 13 months older were kids whose parents red-shirted THEM and upended the order.[/quote]

DP here- my DC is mid August. The October kids in the class were not red-shirted, they simply followed the cutoff age policy. They are 13.5 months older than DC. This is the current system. [/quote]

The difference between a mid-August birthday and an early-October birthday is 10.5 months.[/quote]

DP thant he one wiht the bad math.

My DS had a classmate who was born Sept 25, 2012 and another classmate who was born Aug 5, 2011. That's more than 13 months. Can't speak for the previous math, but it does happen. [/quote]

Sure — it happens when people redshirt. In your example, in DC, Larlo born in August 2011 would be a grade above Larla born in September 2012. [/quote]

And now Lario makes Laria's life hell.[/quote]

Larlo is more likely to disrupt Larla when Larlo and Larla are both six, and Larlo has half the attention span. When Larlo is seven, he can sit just as long, and Larla learns better. That’s why most privates refuse to admit young boys.

Honestly just to private. I used to be for public education, but there’s so much waste spent discussing this stuff. Private schools have this all down. The classes are well-constructed, and the kids go to good colleges.

Or else charter schools all the way.[/quote]

Kids can sit. It’s easier on thes hook. It’s not about the kids at all. If they cannot teach age appropriate kids they should not be teaching. [/quote]

Nope. Boys and girls on average have different abilities to sit. If you want your daughter to have the best education, you don’t want young, disruptive boys in her class. This is the other reason why private (and perhaps charter) is better. Policies are put together intelligently and not based on energy-depleting comments like “kids can sit.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/10/boys-delayed-entry-school-start-redshirting/671238/[/quote]

DCPS is such a metaphor. The learning environment is better with kids of different ages and similar maturities. But screw all of that and create a worse learning environment because learning is supposedly a competition. Forget that the rest of the world doesn’t operate like DC.

I hope every single little girl whose 1st grade education is disrupted by a young boy who skipped kindergarten no less! Has a mom who fought to end red-shirting.

Meanwhile, we will skip over to private with the quiet classrooms and recesses scheduled for kids of similar maturities. Our whole neighborhood is private now. Great job, DCPS, by making it easier for private kids to be more competitive.[/quote]

First it was a civil rights issue and now allowing redshirting is a gender equity issue? Come on. Can girls not redshirt them because this pseudo science says that would actually give them a leg up right?

[b]Your whole neighborhood is private because of racism, classism, and capitalism. It isn't because DCPS enforces a standard age to enroll[/b].[/quote]

No it’s because even though private pay isn’t easy for us, dealing with DCPS and their hatred toward white NW families is exhausting. I do wonder what the conversation would be if the races were different. And btw, I’m not the one bringing up race, it’s all the redshirt haters who have been racist throughout talking about names, incomes, races, of the families.

[Anonymous]

Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point I am convinced someone must be engaging in a psyop because there's no way anyone thinks these posts are going to make people sympathetic to the Lafayette parents who want to redshirt.

+1. All I hear from redshirt posters is that some can’t do basic math, they really don’t care about data, and they really, really don’t care about learning environments.

To reduce inequity, do what private schools do and create the best learning environments possible for all kids. This means sometimes accelerating kids too. Beauvoir doesn’t have a class of 7-year-old pre-K students. Older isn’t better.

But no, instead, these posters reduce support for public and create worse learning environments for their own kids. They shoot themselves in their own feet. They don’t want us even if we can help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point I am convinced someone must be engaging in a psyop because there's no way anyone thinks these posts are going to make people sympathetic to the Lafayette parents who want to redshirt.

+1. All I hear from redshirt posters is that some can’t do basic math, they really don’t care about data, and they really, really don’t care about learning environments.

To reduce inequity, do what private schools do and create the best learning environments possible for all kids. This means sometimes accelerating kids too. Beauvoir doesn’t have a class of 7-year-old pre-K students. Older isn’t better.

But no, instead, these posters reduce support for public and create worse learning environments for their own kids. They shoot themselves in their own feet. They don’t want us even if we can help.

And yes, over the years, all the die-hard public school supporters have slowly switched over. This was really the nail in the coffin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

I can both prioritize my child and say that those things are horrible. Maybe if DCPS stopped wasting money and trying to profit off their positions they would have more time to give to the issues. The real issue is this is the way it’s been done for years. Whatever made up deadline or age constraints you have in your head are not actually what the policy says. But you can’t address this because then you would have no basis for your opinion.

Let me show you what DCPS central does while they’re “working” on the very important issues you identified:

https://bega.dc.gov/sites/bega/files/publication/attachments/Redacted%20-%2024-0103-P%20A.%20Caruthers%20Negotiated%20Disposition%20Final%20%28SIGNED%29_Redacted.pdf

My issues are not unimportant simply because I’ve made it out of my lower class neighborhood where I was raised and landed in NW dc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

I can both prioritize my child and say that those things are horrible. Maybe if DCPS stopped wasting money and trying to profit off their positions they would have more time to give to the issues. The real issue is this is the way it’s been done for years. Whatever made up deadline or age constraints you have in your head are not actually what the policy says. But you can’t address this because then you would have no basis for your opinion.

Let me show you what DCPS central does while they’re “working” on the very important issues you identified:

https://bega.dc.gov/sites/bega/files/publication/attachments/Redacted%20-%2024-0103-P%20A.%20Caruthers%20Negotiated%20Disposition%20Final%20%28SIGNED%29_Redacted.pdf

My issues are not unimportant simply because I’ve made it out of my lower class neighborhood where I was raised and landed in NW dc.

DCPS has quite a large number of issues. Redshirting is just simply not one of them.

All school districts have cutoffs. I feel like I'm losing my mind here. Some wealthy districts allow more flexibility especially to vocal parents but age cutoffs aren't some DCPS conspiracy. And when you add in that DCPS is a large district which also provides free preschool to help address inequities through earlier childcare and access to nutrition in schools the matter of simply letting every parent do what they want simply because they have the resources makes it completely untenable. You can cite all the studies you want but the district not letting a handful of wealthy kids arbitrarily (I've seen nothing that says they have documented needs) be held back is not some great anti white racism plot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

I can both prioritize my child and say that those things are horrible. Maybe if DCPS stopped wasting money and trying to profit off their positions they would have more time to give to the issues. The real issue is this is the way it’s been done for years. Whatever made up deadline or age constraints you have in your head are not actually what the policy says. But you can’t address this because then you would have no basis for your opinion.

Let me show you what DCPS central does while they’re “working” on the very important issues you identified:

https://bega.dc.gov/sites/bega/files/publication/attachments/Redacted%20-%2024-0103-P%20A.%20Caruthers%20Negotiated%20Disposition%20Final%20%28SIGNED%29_Redacted.pdf

My issues are not unimportant simply because I’ve made it out of my lower class neighborhood where I was raised and landed in NW dc.

DCPS has quite a large number of issues. Redshirting is just simply not one of them.

All school districts have cutoffs. I feel like I'm losing my mind here. Some wealthy districts allow more flexibility especially to vocal parents but age cutoffs aren't some DCPS conspiracy. And when you add in that DCPS is a large district which also provides free preschool to help address inequities through earlier childcare and access to nutrition in schools the matter of simply letting every parent do what they want simply because they have the resources makes it completely untenable. You can cite all the studies you want but the district not letting a handful of wealthy kids arbitrarily (I've seen nothing that says they have documented needs) be held back is not some great anti white racism plot.

But you’re wrong! There is no cutoff!!!! It’s an age by which DCPS must allow a child into Kindergarten. There is NO requirement that a child of any age be put into any certain grade. There is no “1st grade cut off”. I just wish you all would really understand what you’re talking about.

If there was a hard fast policy, fine! That’s ok and then reasonable minds could argue about what that rule is but that’s *not* what is and has been in place in DCPS.

[Anonymous]

I am sympathetic to the Lafayette parents, and I don’t have a dog in this redshirting fight. If parents want to redshirt their kids they should be allowed to. Schools must be responsive to the needs and wants of the community, after all it’s the property tax money that’s funding them. Schools can’t take the parents money and tell them to f off the first time they need something. Stories like these is why people support vouchers.

Not surprising that private and charter schools are more accommodating, they need to work with the parents for what’s best for the students or they can go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Sayonara, DCPS. I’m not sticking around for the first-grade classrooms chaotic with boys who just finished pre-K. If any kid suffers, I hope it’s isolated to the kids of the parents who forced those boys to sit in those 1st grade classrooms. But alas, it’ll likely be most of the classroom that suffers.

I used to believe in public education. Now I know public education isn’t terribly focused on education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sympathetic to the Lafayette parents, and I don’t have a dog in this redshirting fight. If parents want to redshirt their kids they should be allowed to. Schools must be responsive to the needs and wants of the community, after all it’s the property tax money that’s funding them. Schools can’t take the parents money and tell them to f off the first time they need something. Stories like these is why people support vouchers.

Not surprising that private and charter schools are more accommodating, they need to work with the parents for what’s best for the students or they can go elsewhere.

But privates don’t force redshirting — force being the key word — they often force it against parents wishes — because they want to please the parents and are afraid the kid will go elsewhere. The private school forum is full of stories where the school forced redshirting and the kids did go elsewhere.

Private schools force redshirting (and more rarely acceleration) according to the kid because it’s what’s best for the classroom. DCPS seems to have forgotten the point of the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

I can both prioritize my child and say that those things are horrible. Maybe if DCPS stopped wasting money and trying to profit off their positions they would have more time to give to the issues. The real issue is this is the way it’s been done for years. Whatever made up deadline or age constraints you have in your head are not actually what the policy says. But you can’t address this because then you would have no basis for your opinion.

Let me show you what DCPS central does while they’re “working” on the very important issues you identified:

https://bega.dc.gov/sites/bega/files/publication/attachments/Redacted%20-%2024-0103-P%20A.%20Caruthers%20Negotiated%20Disposition%20Final%20%28SIGNED%29_Redacted.pdf

My issues are not unimportant simply because I’ve made it out of my lower class neighborhood where I was raised and landed in NW dc.

DCPS has quite a large number of issues. Redshirting is just simply not one of them.

All school districts have cutoffs. I feel like I'm losing my mind here. Some wealthy districts allow more flexibility especially to vocal parents but age cutoffs aren't some DCPS conspiracy. And when you add in that DCPS is a large district which also provides free preschool to help address inequities through earlier childcare and access to nutrition in schools the matter of simply letting every parent do what they want simply because they have the resources makes it completely untenable. You can cite all the studies you want but the district not letting a handful of wealthy kids arbitrarily (I've seen nothing that says they have documented needs) be held back is not some great anti white racism plot.

Why would you have any access to documented needs of kids that are not yours? This matter is between those parents and the school. Maybe there were legitimate reasons to hold them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes DCPS hates white upper NW families. And let's be clear this is WOTP because NW kids EOTP are dealing with mold in their classrooms and lead on their playground equipment. But it's definitely the white NW parents who were allowed to break the rules no other school could have gotten away with in the first place who are the real victims.

I can both prioritize my child and say that those things are horrible. Maybe if DCPS stopped wasting money and trying to profit off their positions they would have more time to give to the issues. The real issue is this is the way it’s been done for years. Whatever made up deadline or age constraints you have in your head are not actually what the policy says. But you can’t address this because then you would have no basis for your opinion.

Let me show you what DCPS central does while they’re “working” on the very important issues you identified:

https://bega.dc.gov/sites/bega/files/publication/attachments/Redacted%20-%2024-0103-P%20A.%20Caruthers%20Negotiated%20Disposition%20Final%20%28SIGNED%29_Redacted.pdf

My issues are not unimportant simply because I’ve made it out of my lower class neighborhood where I was raised and landed in NW dc.

DCPS has quite a large number of issues. Redshirting is just simply not one of them.

All school districts have cutoffs. I feel like I'm losing my mind here. Some wealthy districts allow more flexibility especially to vocal parents but age cutoffs aren't some DCPS conspiracy. And when you add in that DCPS is a large district which also provides free preschool to help address inequities through earlier childcare and access to nutrition in schools the matter of simply letting every parent do what they want simply because they have the resources makes it completely untenable. You can cite all the studies you want but the district not letting a handful of wealthy kids arbitrarily (I've seen nothing that says they have documented needs) be held back is not some great anti white racism plot.

But you’re wrong! There is no cutoff!!!! It’s an age by which DCPS must allow a child into Kindergarten. There is NO requirement that a child of any age be put into any certain grade. There is no “1st grade cut off”. I just wish you all would really understand what you’re talking about.

If there was a hard fast policy, fine! That’s ok and then reasonable minds could argue about what that rule is but that’s *not* what is and has been in place in DCPS.

DP. You just need to stop. There is a policy, you just don’t like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sayonara, DCPS. I’m not sticking around for the first-grade classrooms chaotic with boys who just finished pre-K. If any kid suffers, I hope it’s isolated to the kids of the parents who forced those boys to sit in those 1st grade classrooms. But alas, it’ll likely be most of the classroom that suffers.

I used to believe in public education. Now I know public education isn’t terribly focused on education.

+1 to this

Also, where are these principals? If they are not using their discretion and fighting for these kids, how about their staff? I can't imagine the teachers would be happy with this outcome.