Has anyone here on a normal income successfully FIREd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, so he's 5 years older than she is, but he's gonna play the card of "I brought more money into the marriage so you do more chores in perpetuity"? Come on dude. Don't you see how unreasonable that is?

A FIRE-minded 33-year-old woman can do a lot better than this. And since FIRE dating is disproportionately male, I'm sure she'll find someone more open-minded and reasonable.

Yup. Or someone who is simply frugal (not 100% FIRE) and similar financial beliefs, but someone who has a job and goals in life other than sitting around doing nothing while she busts ass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

LOL. A 38 y/o man targeting a 29-30 y/o woman and then preemptively charging her a lifetime of servitude to make up for the fact that he's been in the workforce twice as long.

You know what's not traditionally a male activity? Intentional unemployment. Good luck out there, I suspect you're going to learn a little too late that FIRE isn't sustainable for the divorced.

No worries, as I highly doubt he will find a spouse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you're back, why don't you fill us in on precisely how much baby and toddler parenting you're planning to do.

Not the majority but a reasonable amount that keeps both my wife and I happy.

So she'll do the majority, on a budget, and she'll pay $1m for the privilege?

Right? I was the woman he described in my late twenties (at least in terms of savings), and I married UP (financially) to someone who now makes seven figures. What the OP is proposing is absurd, but best of luck.

Because very few high earning women at 30 are looking for a serious relationship with someone who isn't goal driven and motivated. At a minimum, driven for a low paying job (think artist/musician/etc but with a passion).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Those who did stay single, accumulated a nice NW were usually looking for higher earning men than themselves. I also know 2 of them who remained single and had kids with sperm donors. They had lucrative careers/business and just hired nannies, bought their own homes, etc. They didn't feel the need to be breadwinners supporting another adult and just preferred to hire people for house chores and babysitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

The point is that if you see having kids as a primary vocation, you're quite unlikely to wait until your 30s to get married. You get married in your mid 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

I mean, sure, I know plenty of women who decided to stay home with their kids, and I'm not criticizing them. I'm pointing out that in my experience there is 0% overlap between them and the "millionaire by 30" club, because they made choices around their values, like getting married and having kids in their 20s or choosing family friendly careers.

You see OP...he really values saving money above all else...and he's late 30s and single. Doesn't want to do half the parenting even if he FIREs, either. People's choices reflect their values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

There are Highly educated women who choose to do just that. I have two BS (T10 university) and a MS from a T20 university. When we decided to have kids, figured I'd work PT. Once kid arrived, I changed my mind and stayed home. Loved my time raising the kids and being very involved in their lives/school/volunteering/etc. Glad I choose the right partner to parent with so this was an option for our family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If OP has learned anything from this thread it’s that he can’t date 50 year olds that need Vitamin C treatments to assuage their aging skin.

Such a loss.

And they all claim to be "highly intelligent" because they went to a decent college. These grumpy women of course are power players in the C-suite

Guys don't care about that crap, especially guys who have money or spend any amount of time outside the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

There are Highly educated women who choose to do just that. I have two BS (T10 university) and a MS from a T20 university. When we decided to have kids, figured I'd work PT. Once kid arrived, I changed my mind and stayed home. Loved my time raising the kids and being very involved in their lives/school/volunteering/etc. Glad I choose the right partner to parent with so this was an option for our family

Let me guess, did he sit around playing guitar all day, refuse to get a job ever, and send the kids to community college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

I almost laugh out loud because it is just so ridiculous. But it is also mean. I feel bad for future wife who has to do everything.

After saving a million dollars by her early 30s, which will STILL not measure up to his savings, so she'll be on the hook for the hard parts of parenting forever. But she'll like it, so no problem!

This is just all so unreasonable. I do know women who always wanted to be a stay at home mom and primary parent. None of them stayed single until their 30s and saved a million dollars first.

Heaven forbid a woman actually wants to raise her children instead of being a corporate drone who does little or nothing for society.

There are Highly educated women who choose to do just that. I have two BS (T10 university) and a MS from a T20 university. When we decided to have kids, figured I'd work PT. Once kid arrived, I changed my mind and stayed home. Loved my time raising the kids and being very involved in their lives/school/volunteering/etc. Glad I choose the right partner to parent with so this was an option for our family

Let me guess, did he sit around playing guitar all day, refuse to get a job ever, and send the kids to community college?

Nope!! I would never have partnered with someone like that. I was in a high powered job when I chose to SAHP. Obviously I was going to be with a spouse who had goals and ambitions. I also happened to choose one who was able to make a lot of money, but then again, I wouldn't have quit my high powered job to SAHP if we were not able to have a decent life without my salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you can't handle working and having a serious girlfriend at the same time, how are you going to handle having two kids and a marriage at the same time?

OP I think you need to accept that you need professional help for your social skills and ability to manage life. Most people are able to manage a job and a relationship or a marriage. It's going to be very hard for you dating because women will catch on that you can't handle more than one thing at a time. Life is full of surprises and you can't un-do having kids, so if it turns out the kids have really challenging needs you may need to get a job again. Will you be able to handle it?

DCUM when I say I’d like to marry a woman who is naturally a saver, possibly (though not a requirement) with $1 million saved by age 33: “OMG, that is extremely rare and difficult. Any woman who achieves that is going to be very accomplished and ambitious and is not going to be interested in a man who retires early.”

DCUM when I say I’ve saved $1.1 million and paid off my condo at age 33: “That’s it? You’re not able to do that while simultaneously navigating the modern dating scene, getting married and having kids (with 50/50 parenting and household work, of course), and keeping up with the requirements of a single-family home? You really need see a medical professional to address your inability to manage life.”

Lol, GTFOH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's equally reckless to delay dating and parenthood. What if you run out of time before you meet the right person?

I'm really not sure why you can't go on, say, one date every two weeks just to get started and practice relationship skills. FIRE women won't be expecting you to spend much.

Dating is expensive (both in terms of money and time)! The guys I know that are successful at it treat it like a part-time job.

Also, I think it’s going to be very difficult, if I do find the right person, to say, “Hey, I like you a lot. Let’s put a pin in this for five years—or tread water until then—and then we can move forward with our lives.” I think it just makes more sense to date when I can really commit to someone.

If you find the right person you can cut a lot of costs by moving in together. It can actually accelerate your FIRE.

It's really important that you develop some relationship skills. Your plan to go from zero to marriage at age 38 with no dating experience is unrealistic. It will be a red flag to your potential dates.

"I'm unemployed and have nothing to do but obsess about our relationship" is creepy and will put people off. It's not a good feeling to be the only activity in someone's life. It's a lot of pressure and it's not going to be a healthy relationship.

Jesus, I’m not a socially-inept autist who has “no dating experience” and needs to “develop some relationship skills.” I had a girlfriend in college. I didn’t date after college when I moved in with my parents (logistics were untenable), and by the time I bought my condo, I was fully immersed in savings mode and was not interested in dating. However, I have slept with two women in my building (I’m not sure why I have to get into that, but you all have taken a thread in the money forum in a completely different direction than intended.)

You guys are misattributing all sorts of characteristics to me when the truth is just that I have a laser-like focus on getting to $2 million and therefore everything else has taken a backseat. And yes, I understand there could be some potential savings from moving in with a girlfriend. But that would involve a huge life shift and I just don’t want to rock the boat in any way or potentially break anything right now. My job appears stable, and I have a pathway to achieving nirvana within 4-5 years—while, as I stated in the OP, I am starting to get restless, five years still seems a reasonable amount of time to defer gratification for this end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

LOL. A 38 y/o man targeting a 29-30 y/o woman and then preemptively charging her a lifetime of servitude to make up for the fact that he's been in the workforce twice as long.

You know what's not traditionally a male activity? Intentional unemployment. Good luck out there, I suspect you're going to learn a little too late that FIRE isn't sustainable for the divorced.

No worries, as I highly doubt he will find a spouse

Apparently, what I’d be offering is a terrible deal for women.

But also, my scenario of a 33-year-old woman having $1 million saved is unrealistic. So let’s say she only has $200,000 saved. At that time, I have $2 million saved. As I mentioned earlier, the math of compounding is such that it only takes on average three years to get from $2 million to $3 million if one adds $100,000 in contributions annually (I contribute $75,000 now and could contribute more if I were doing pretax accounts, so that should not be a problem at all with both of us working). So we work and save for 2.5-3 years before having kids and retiring with $3 million.

As I broke down earlier, the $90,000 in passive income from our $3 million is exactly the same as that of a couple earning $240,000 (after they pay $60,000 in taxes, $45,000 in mortgage payments, and put $45,000 in 401(k)s). Do this in a LCOL area and it’s easily a top 10% lifestyle. The “downside” for her is that she does the majority of the parenting—but this is not actually a downside because I’m not imposing it on her and would have self-selected for the type of woman who would enjoy doing that.

So she goes from having a 9-5 job with $200,000 saved at age 33 to having a top 10% lifestyle while never having to work again at age 36. I don’t know, it sounds OK to me—maybe not for a $400,000 DC lawyer but for a lot of women.