Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

I feel for your husbands. I hope they have Loops.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

What if it was a tiny school ? What it if were 20-40 families. Would you have an open invite or be selective?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

DP. Conversely, many are desperate to portray the OP as some poor victim. Read the initial post again. A few times if necessary. (It’s poorly written.) She was laughing her a** off. She assumed that everyone else was “uber uncomfortable” by her presence. She couldn’t wait to see what kind of awkwardness would ensure at the bus stop. OP comes off like a Real Housewife. She likes to create drama where it doesn’t need to be.

OP sending that woman a passive aggressive text about how she wasn’t invited is made so much weirder by the fact that she only knew a few of the 15 women. I just can’t wrap my head around that.

Yeah that’s weird.

I will admit that I find it uncomfortable when several neighbor moms I’m friendly with (a couple of whom call me a “friend” to my face) start talking about their “mom nights” in front of me, but never extend a invite. The last time there was another mom there who is apparently now included in their group and the others were gushing how awesome it was that she was joining them. It’s fine that I’m not included, you can’t include everyone, I just find the behavior a bit rude. I usually walk away or start looking at my phone.

Yes, I've had similar experiences. There are a group of families in our neighborhood who all walk their early elementary kids to school and we often see each other on the walk or outside the school. They will often turn to each other after the kids go in and discuss going to get coffee or getting together later in the day or week. It's not even that I am desperate to be invited, and more that it always feels very awkward when they discuss these plans directly in front of me but have never once asked me to join or even asked if I was interested. It's just weird to be standing in a group of 3-5 women and have them all say to each other "let's go get coffee" and then look at you and say "well... bye!"

I now pop in my headphones and make a call or put on a podcast after saying goodbye to my kid, and then just waive to them and walk away. I don't know why they never invited me but don't view it as a huge loss -- I have other friends. But it *was* awkward.

I think OP's situation is different though because she is actually friends with a couple of the women. I'm not friends with any of these moms (and apparently they don't want to be, which is okay). If I was friends with one of them and they made these plans in front of me without inviting me, I think I would actually be hurt, not just uncomfortable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

What if it was a tiny school ? What it if were 20-40 families. Would you have an open invite or be selective?

I think every get together should be sanctioned by the school. No women may meet for lunch or at any other time unless every family is included. Hopefully no single dad was left out of the winery lunch either. This is the only thing that would work for the "inclusive" posters.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

This seems hyperbolic. My kid attends an elementary school with about 300 kids, but I don't think I've ever worried about an event getting too large by keeping the invite open-ended. People tend to self-segregate a bit, with parents of younger kids and parents of older kids not intermingling much. Plus some people can't make anything because they work a lot or don't have a flexible schedule. Or they aren't interested in socializing with school families. Or they would turn down this invite because they don't drink or don't like big group gatherings or whatever.

I can't think of a situation where I would cap a gathering at 15 but freak out if it were 18 or 20, and I also don't think you'd have to -- these things work themselves out. Usually when I get together with more than a few people at once, the first thing that happens is that it's really hard to find a time that works for everyone and inevitably some people who are invited can't make it because how often do 15 schedules line up in that way?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

I have at least 20 friends in my contacts list that I could in theory invite to anything I’m going to at any given time. But unless they are part of the overarching friend group, I’m likely not just randomly picking friends to invite into a group do people they barely know. The 14 other women at the event probably also have a friend or more like OP they could have extended the invite to, but didn’t.

Not being included in everything is a very basic part of life that most adults have managed to learn by now. Heck I even teach this to my own elementary school kids.

They know that 2 of their best friends might get invited to a birthday party with kids they don’t know well. Or the neighbor they play with down the street may have a sleepover that doesn’t include them. All of this is totally socially acceptable and there’s no reason to make it weird or pout/guilt your friends the next time you see them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

DP. Conversely, many are desperate to portray the OP as some poor victim. Read the initial post again. A few times if necessary. (It’s poorly written.) She was laughing her a** off. She assumed that everyone else was “uber uncomfortable” by her presence. She couldn’t wait to see what kind of awkwardness would ensure at the bus stop. OP comes off like a Real Housewife. She likes to create drama where it doesn’t need to be.

OP sending that woman a passive aggressive text about how she wasn’t invited is made so much weirder by the fact that she only knew a few of the 15 women. I just can’t wrap my head around that.

Yeah that’s weird.

I will admit that I find it uncomfortable when several neighbor moms I’m friendly with (a couple of whom call me a “friend” to my face) start talking about their “mom nights” in front of me, but never extend a invite. The last time there was another mom there who is apparently now included in their group and the others were gushing how awesome it was that she was joining them. It’s fine that I’m not included, you can’t include everyone, I just find the behavior a bit rude. I usually walk away or start looking at my phone.

Yes, I've had similar experiences. There are a group of families in our neighborhood who all walk their early elementary kids to school and we often see each other on the walk or outside the school. They will often turn to each other after the kids go in and discuss going to get coffee or getting together later in the day or week. It's not even that I am desperate to be invited, and more that it always feels very awkward when they discuss these plans directly in front of me but have never once asked me to join or even asked if I was interested. It's just weird to be standing in a group of 3-5 women and have them all say to each other "let's go get coffee" and then look at you and say "well... bye!"

I now pop in my headphones and make a call or put on a podcast after saying goodbye to my kid, and then just waive to them and walk away. I don't know why they never invited me but don't view it as a huge loss -- I have other friends. But it *was* awkward.

I think OP's situation is different though because she is actually friends with a couple of the women. I'm not friends with any of these moms (and apparently they don't want to be, which is okay). If I was friends with one of them and they made these plans in front of me without inviting me, I think I would actually be hurt, not just uncomfortable.

I’ve experienced this as well and the approach I’ve taken is just to wave and keep walking. I’m not sure where the linkages are with these groups but clearly it’s not being extended to me. And that’s fine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

OP has narcissistic tendencies to think of course *she* (and not all the other friends/acquaintances of the people she doesn’t know) deserved an invite into this random group. Talk about thinking the world revolves around you!

Also she has yet to answer our question about what sort of event she was planning and whether she has invited these 2 friends from her subdivision (along with every other tangential friend that she could in theory extend an invite to).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

This seems hyperbolic. My kid attends an elementary school with about 300 kids, but I don't think I've ever worried about an event getting too large by keeping the invite open-ended. People tend to self-segregate a bit, with parents of younger kids and parents of older kids not intermingling much. Plus some people can't make anything because they work a lot or don't have a flexible schedule. Or they aren't interested in socializing with school families. Or they would turn down this invite because they don't drink or don't like big group gatherings or whatever.

I can't think of a situation where I would cap a gathering at 15 but freak out if it were 18 or 20, and I also don't think you'd have to -- these things work themselves out. Usually when I get together with more than a few people at once, the first thing that happens is that it's really hard to find a time that works for everyone and inevitably some people who are invited can't make it because how often do 15 schedules line up in that way?

You say these things “work themselves out” but I guarantee in the process of of emails and texts flying around there is someone (likely multiple someones) at the school who were not looped in to the plans. Unless you’re telling me the parents of all 300 kids were literally included in the planning then yes, you left someone out who knows a couple people at your event.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

This seems hyperbolic. My kid attends an elementary school with about 300 kids, but I don't think I've ever worried about an event getting too large by keeping the invite open-ended. People tend to self-segregate a bit, with parents of younger kids and parents of older kids not intermingling much. Plus some people can't make anything because they work a lot or don't have a flexible schedule. Or they aren't interested in socializing with school families. Or they would turn down this invite because they don't drink or don't like big group gatherings or whatever.

I can't think of a situation where I would cap a gathering at 15 but freak out if it were 18 or 20, and I also don't think you'd have to -- these things work themselves out. Usually when I get together with more than a few people at once, the first thing that happens is that it's really hard to find a time that works for everyone and inevitably some people who are invited can't make it because how often do 15 schedules line up in that way?

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Man some of you desperately want to be invited to absolutely everything. It’s sad.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?