Replicating ATS success — what are exact differences

[Anonymous]

Yeah and that is exactly why most MC/ UMC parents don’t want to send kids to Title 1 failing schools. They want their kids to have some attention too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should mandate 2/3rds of slots for lower socioeconomic and minority students, similar to how Montessori does their prek. I have no problem with ATS existing or being a home for attentive parents. But it should favor disadvantaged every step of the way. And, please don't tell me it's FRL rate is similar or better than other schools, that is truly irrelevant. It's FRL needs to be twice the worst neighborhood school, and it's student demographics needs to flip the stats of U.S. public. Then you know it's really serving those who need it in our society.

ATS parent. I support setting aside more K-5 slots for FRL families.

Btw Montessori pre-k uses that model but the elementary school has a lower FRM rate than ATS.

Colleges can’t even set aside spots based on race. But public elementary schools can?

Who said race? This is FRL.

There are white kids in the VPI classes.

Right, but PP said minorities. Reading comprehension, people. No wonder our kids are struggling.

Oh sorry, did that disadvantaged argument strike a nerve? You people smell of fear. Like maybe your free country day school might actually get redirected to people who really need it. Love it.

Huh? My kids don’t even go to ATS. Just saying you can’t fill a school based on race.

Well, that’s not true. How do you think our schools became (and remain) so segregated? It’s not an accident.

Housing policy (historically) and home prices (currently).

I’m not saying they aren’t segregated. I’m saying APS can’t make a policy that states certain schools must be x percent POC. Universities can’t even do that.

Should there be a greater mix demographically in our schools? I want there to be. Though realistically, how do they do that? Bus kids all over town? And what happens when even more families leave for private school? Take a look at Alexandria. It isn’t so pretty.

The Ashlawn boundary is contiguous to Carlin Springs and Barrett. Innovation has been “picked” to be the North Arlington future school for massive amounts of affordable housing, yet you have Science Focus about a mile up the road and one metro stop away. Would you consider adjusting those boundaries too radical? It wouldn’t require a “bus all over town.” I don’t think most people are aware how blatantly segregated the boundaries are in some instances. It cannot be reasonably explained away.

Are you in favor of eliminating the wrap-around services some of these title I schools offer? Spread the poor kids out between different high-performing schools, dropping them at the door and saying “good luck”?

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know APS doesn’t have the resources to offer some of those services at EVERY school.

Are you saying that the kids who receive free and reduced lunch at the non-Title 1 schools are dropped at the door and told “good luck?” And that their educational outcomes are worse?

The kids at some of our title I schools get more help than just free lunch. Did you not know that?

Of course I know that. You haven’t answered the question.

I mean, I guess they’d be told “good luck” in the sense that they wouldn’t get the same services offered at a Title I school.

Are there educational outcomes worse? Not sure. But the real question is — are they better?

Let’s take ATS out of this. Do low SES kids perform better at non-Title I schools? Honest question. Show me the data.

*their

😡auto INcorrect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah and that is exactly why most MC/ UMC parents don’t want to send kids to Title 1 failing schools. They want their kids to have some attention too.

Drew has smaller class sizes. Those kids are getting more attention. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I’m in favor of desegregating schools. Parts of Abingdon and Oakridge should go to Drew. (Though the Oakridge students closest to Drew would do nothing to help desegregation). The only way to make meaningful change is to stop putting all the affordable housing complexes in the same part of the county, but that’s not APS’s decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should mandate 2/3rds of slots for lower socioeconomic and minority students, similar to how Montessori does their prek. I have no problem with ATS existing or being a home for attentive parents. But it should favor disadvantaged every step of the way. And, please don't tell me it's FRL rate is similar or better than other schools, that is truly irrelevant. It's FRL needs to be twice the worst neighborhood school, and it's student demographics needs to flip the stats of U.S. public. Then you know it's really serving those who need it in our society.

ATS parent. I support setting aside more K-5 slots for FRL families.

Btw Montessori pre-k uses that model but the elementary school has a lower FRM rate than ATS.

Colleges can’t even set aside spots based on race. But public elementary schools can?

Who said race? This is FRL.

There are white kids in the VPI classes.

Right, but PP said minorities. Reading comprehension, people. No wonder our kids are struggling.

Oh sorry, did that disadvantaged argument strike a nerve? You people smell of fear. Like maybe your free country day school might actually get redirected to people who really need it. Love it.

Huh? My kids don’t even go to ATS. Just saying you can’t fill a school based on race.

Well, that’s not true. How do you think our schools became (and remain) so segregated? It’s not an accident.

Housing policy (historically) and home prices (currently).

I’m not saying they aren’t segregated. I’m saying APS can’t make a policy that states certain schools must be x percent POC. Universities can’t even do that.

Should there be a greater mix demographically in our schools? I want there to be. Though realistically, how do they do that? Bus kids all over town? And what happens when even more families leave for private school? Take a look at Alexandria. It isn’t so pretty.

The Ashlawn boundary is contiguous to Carlin Springs and Barrett. Innovation has been “picked” to be the North Arlington future school for massive amounts of affordable housing, yet you have Science Focus about a mile up the road and one metro stop away. Would you consider adjusting those boundaries too radical? It wouldn’t require a “bus all over town.” I don’t think most people are aware how blatantly segregated the boundaries are in some instances. It cannot be reasonably explained away.

Are you in favor of eliminating the wrap-around services some of these title I schools offer? Spread the poor kids out between different high-performing schools, dropping them at the door and saying “good luck”?

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know APS doesn’t have the resources to offer some of those services at EVERY school.

APS and Title 1 aren’t funding those services. The county pays for most of the wraparound services, the stuff like free glasses and social workers. The funding follows the kids, so move them around and the $$ and services follow them. PTAs offer some of the other resources, like donations to holiday or food drives and scholarships to after school activities, so a wealthier PTA with fewer needy kids could provide more for each individual student. There’s a lot of research out there if you want to learn about the affects of poverty on schools, and about how it’s really detrimental for poor kids to be in majority low income schools and neighborhoods. It’s neither here nor there. APS will never do anything about it and often they make it worse when they “adjust” contiguous boundaries because it’s the last consideration on their list, when it should be first. It’s the thing that has the most bearing on education, with tons of evidence and research out there. I am not aware of the same level of research into how alignment affects student outcomes (hint: it doesn’t).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

DP. 91 k seats at ATS, 45 went to VPI students. 39 were siblings. Maybe those 39 could be sibling and vpi but not sure. 320 applicants. Very few seats available after vpi and siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

DP. 91 k seats at ATS, 45 went to VPI students. 39 were siblings. Maybe those 39 could be sibling and vpi but not sure. 320 applicants. Very few seats available after vpi and siblings.

So ATS is already reserving at least half their spots for low-income? PP said “low socioeconomic and minority” fwiw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should mandate 2/3rds of slots for lower socioeconomic and minority students, similar to how Montessori does their prek. I have no problem with ATS existing or being a home for attentive parents. But it should favor disadvantaged every step of the way. And, please don't tell me it's FRL rate is similar or better than other schools, that is truly irrelevant. It's FRL needs to be twice the worst neighborhood school, and it's student demographics needs to flip the stats of U.S. public. Then you know it's really serving those who need it in our society.

ATS parent. I support setting aside more K-5 slots for FRL families.

Btw Montessori pre-k uses that model but the elementary school has a lower FRM rate than ATS.

Colleges can’t even set aside spots based on race. But public elementary schools can?

Who said race? This is FRL.

There are white kids in the VPI classes.

Right, but PP said minorities. Reading comprehension, people. No wonder our kids are struggling.

Oh sorry, did that disadvantaged argument strike a nerve? You people smell of fear. Like maybe your free country day school might actually get redirected to people who really need it. Love it.

Huh? My kids don’t even go to ATS. Just saying you can’t fill a school based on race.

Well, that’s not true. How do you think our schools became (and remain) so segregated? It’s not an accident.

Housing policy (historically) and home prices (currently).

I’m not saying they aren’t segregated. I’m saying APS can’t make a policy that states certain schools must be x percent POC. Universities can’t even do that.

Should there be a greater mix demographically in our schools? I want there to be. Though realistically, how do they do that? Bus kids all over town? And what happens when even more families leave for private school? Take a look at Alexandria. It isn’t so pretty.

The Ashlawn boundary is contiguous to Carlin Springs and Barrett. Innovation has been “picked” to be the North Arlington future school for massive amounts of affordable housing, yet you have Science Focus about a mile up the road and one metro stop away. Would you consider adjusting those boundaries too radical? It wouldn’t require a “bus all over town.” I don’t think most people are aware how blatantly segregated the boundaries are in some instances. It cannot be reasonably explained away.

Are you in favor of eliminating the wrap-around services some of these title I schools offer? Spread the poor kids out between different high-performing schools, dropping them at the door and saying “good luck”?

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know APS doesn’t have the resources to offer some of those services at EVERY school.

APS and Title 1 aren’t funding those services. The county pays for most of the wraparound services, the stuff like free glasses and social workers. The funding follows the kids, so move them around and the $$ and services follow them. PTAs offer some of the other resources, like donations to holiday or food drives and scholarships to after school activities, so a wealthier PTA with fewer needy kids could provide more for each individual student. There’s a lot of research out there if you want to learn about the affects of poverty on schools, and about how it’s really detrimental for poor kids to be in majority low income schools and neighborhoods. It’s neither here nor there. APS will never do anything about it and often they make it worse when they “adjust” contiguous boundaries because it’s the last consideration on their list, when it should be first. It’s the thing that has the most bearing on education, with tons of evidence and research out there. I am not aware of the same level of research into how alignment affects student outcomes (hint: it doesn’t).

That’s so interesting. I didn’t know where the funding for wrap-around services comes from, but since it seemed related to school, I assumed it was APS. I agree something needs to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

DP. 91 k seats at ATS, 45 went to VPI students. 39 were siblings. Maybe those 39 could be sibling and vpi but not sure. 320 applicants. Very few seats available after vpi and siblings.

So ATS is already reserving at least half their spots for low-income? PP said “low socioeconomic and minority” fwiw

Right, but minority can’t be part of the equation. Low income, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

DP. 91 k seats at ATS, 45 went to VPI students. 39 were siblings. Maybe those 39 could be sibling and vpi but not sure. 320 applicants. Very few seats available after vpi and siblings.

PP said earlier that vpi was expanded at ATS. When did that happen? Could ATS be title I at some point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't ATS already have a VPI program and don't those VPI students get priority entrance into ATS?

Yes. Non VPI students have very low chance of getting in. After VPI and siblings, I think it’s like 8% chance.

91 seats offered in Kindergarten for 2023/2024 school year. 45 VPI students admitted and 39 siblings only leaves 7 spots for nonVPI with no sibling.

ARe you sure your numbers are right? There are 45 VPI students each year but they are pk3, and 4 so only 20something. Also the student numbers for siblings is for all siblings, not VPI siblings. My 2nd kid got in through lottery and we took a sibling spot in a higher grade. We were number 4 on the sibling waitlist and got in so no non-siblings got into that grade. We are not VPI.

DP. 91 k seats at ATS, 45 went to VPI students. 39 were siblings. Maybe those 39 could be sibling and vpi but not sure. 320 applicants. Very few seats available after vpi and siblings.

That’s a question I have as well. I added VPI+Sibling assuming they are different populations. Is that inaccurate? I guess some siblings would have to be under VPI as well but wouldn’t they count them only under one preferred placement category?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there public data on how many students applied to ATS in last year or year before ? Also, is data on current (or last year’s) student enrollment numbers for each APS elementary school available ?

If so, it would be kind to post the URL.

Here you go: https://www.apsva.us/school-transfer-data/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should mandate 2/3rds of slots for lower socioeconomic and minority students, similar to how Montessori does their prek. I have no problem with ATS existing or being a home for attentive parents. But it should favor disadvantaged every step of the way. And, please don't tell me it's FRL rate is similar or better than other schools, that is truly irrelevant. It's FRL needs to be twice the worst neighborhood school, and it's student demographics needs to flip the stats of U.S. public. Then you know it's really serving those who need it in our society.

ATS parent. I support setting aside more K-5 slots for FRL families.

Btw Montessori pre-k uses that model but the elementary school has a lower FRM rate than ATS.

Colleges can’t even set aside spots based on race. But public elementary schools can?

Who said race? This is FRL.

There are white kids in the VPI classes.

Right, but PP said minorities. Reading comprehension, people. No wonder our kids are struggling.

Oh sorry, did that disadvantaged argument strike a nerve? You people smell of fear. Like maybe your free country day school might actually get redirected to people who really need it. Love it.

Huh? My kids don’t even go to ATS. Just saying you can’t fill a school based on race.

Well, that’s not true. How do you think our schools became (and remain) so segregated? It’s not an accident.

Housing policy (historically) and home prices (currently).

I’m not saying they aren’t segregated. I’m saying APS can’t make a policy that states certain schools must be x percent POC. Universities can’t even do that.

Should there be a greater mix demographically in our schools? I want there to be. Though realistically, how do they do that? Bus kids all over town? And what happens when even more families leave for private school? Take a look at Alexandria. It isn’t so pretty.

The Ashlawn boundary is contiguous to Carlin Springs and Barrett. Innovation has been “picked” to be the North Arlington future school for massive amounts of affordable housing, yet you have Science Focus about a mile up the road and one metro stop away. Would you consider adjusting those boundaries too radical? It wouldn’t require a “bus all over town.” I don’t think most people are aware how blatantly segregated the boundaries are in some instances. It cannot be reasonably explained away.

Are you in favor of eliminating the wrap-around services some of these title I schools offer? Spread the poor kids out between different high-performing schools, dropping them at the door and saying “good luck”?

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know APS doesn’t have the resources to offer some of those services at EVERY school.

APS and Title 1 aren’t funding those services. The county pays for most of the wraparound services, the stuff like free glasses and social workers. The funding follows the kids, so move them around and the $$ and services follow them. PTAs offer some of the other resources, like donations to holiday or food drives and scholarships to after school activities, so a wealthier PTA with fewer needy kids could provide more for each individual student. There’s a lot of research out there if you want to learn about the affects of poverty on schools, and about how it’s really detrimental for poor kids to be in majority low income schools and neighborhoods. It’s neither here nor there. APS will never do anything about it and often they make it worse when they “adjust” contiguous boundaries because it’s the last consideration on their list, when it should be first. It’s the thing that has the most bearing on education, with tons of evidence and research out there. I am not aware of the same level of research into how alignment affects student outcomes (hint: it doesn’t).

Thank you. And I just want to add that some CAF buildings already require buses to get the kids to elementary school, so those kids are getting bused anyway whether it’s to their current high-poverty school, or another nearby school. There are schools within 1-3 miles of each other that aren’t high-poverty where these kids could go. This isn’t something APS couldn’t fix if it actually cared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ATS should mandate 2/3rds of slots for lower socioeconomic and minority students, similar to how Montessori does their prek. I have no problem with ATS existing or being a home for attentive parents. But it should favor disadvantaged every step of the way. And, please don't tell me it's FRL rate is similar or better than other schools, that is truly irrelevant. It's FRL needs to be twice the worst neighborhood school, and it's student demographics needs to flip the stats of U.S. public. Then you know it's really serving those who need it in our society.

ATS parent. I support setting aside more K-5 slots for FRL families.

Btw Montessori pre-k uses that model but the elementary school has a lower FRM rate than ATS.

Colleges can’t even set aside spots based on race. But public elementary schools can?

Who said race? This is FRL.

There are white kids in the VPI classes.

Right, but PP said minorities. Reading comprehension, people. No wonder our kids are struggling.

Oh sorry, did that disadvantaged argument strike a nerve? You people smell of fear. Like maybe your free country day school might actually get redirected to people who really need it. Love it.

Huh? My kids don’t even go to ATS. Just saying you can’t fill a school based on race.

Well, that’s not true. How do you think our schools became (and remain) so segregated? It’s not an accident.

Housing policy (historically) and home prices (currently).

I’m not saying they aren’t segregated. I’m saying APS can’t make a policy that states certain schools must be x percent POC. Universities can’t even do that.

Should there be a greater mix demographically in our schools? I want there to be. Though realistically, how do they do that? Bus kids all over town? And what happens when even more families leave for private school? Take a look at Alexandria. It isn’t so pretty.

The Ashlawn boundary is contiguous to Carlin Springs and Barrett. Innovation has been “picked” to be the North Arlington future school for massive amounts of affordable housing, yet you have Science Focus about a mile up the road and one metro stop away. Would you consider adjusting those boundaries too radical? It wouldn’t require a “bus all over town.” I don’t think most people are aware how blatantly segregated the boundaries are in some instances. It cannot be reasonably explained away.

Are you in favor of eliminating the wrap-around services some of these title I schools offer? Spread the poor kids out between different high-performing schools, dropping them at the door and saying “good luck”?

I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know APS doesn’t have the resources to offer some of those services at EVERY school.

APS and Title 1 aren’t funding those services. The county pays for most of the wraparound services, the stuff like free glasses and social workers. The funding follows the kids, so move them around and the $$ and services follow them. PTAs offer some of the other resources, like donations to holiday or food drives and scholarships to after school activities, so a wealthier PTA with fewer needy kids could provide more for each individual student. There’s a lot of research out there if you want to learn about the affects of poverty on schools, and about how it’s really detrimental for poor kids to be in majority low income schools and neighborhoods. It’s neither here nor there. APS will never do anything about it and often they make it worse when they “adjust” contiguous boundaries because it’s the last consideration on their list, when it should be first. It’s the thing that has the most bearing on education, with tons of evidence and research out there. I am not aware of the same level of research into how alignment affects student outcomes (hint: it doesn’t).

Thank you. And I just want to add that some CAF buildings already require buses to get the kids to elementary school, so those kids are getting bused anyway whether it’s to their current high-poverty school, or another nearby school. There are schools within 1-3 miles of each other that aren’t high-poverty where these kids could go. This isn’t something APS couldn’t fix if it actually cared.

Are the other nearby schools under enrolled? And if not, are you expecting some of their students to swap places into the high-poverty school? That’s a hard sell, and would lead to many families fleeing APS. Again, look at Alexandria.