MCPS teachers - what would you tell parents in your class(es) if you could?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Depends - if they have an iep? I’d tell them that most of the services are delivered by the general Ed teacher because inclusion spec Ed teachers are stretched too thin and we spend so much time on paperwork and not with kids. I’d also tell them no matter what they “advocate for” in the iep, it doesn’t actually happen during the school day due to limited resources and time so half the time we just agree to make you go away

We know. Thanks for being a failure in your life's work.

Likewise for being a failure at actual life. (Lack of empathy is the first sign of being a psychopath)

"I decided to use an anonymous forum to taunt distraught parents of special needs kids in a blasé manner about how we fail their children. But you're the psychopath! Poor me!"
PP

The thread is what we would tell parents if we could. I appreciated that teachers transparency and didn't read it as a taunt. You're clearly dissatisfied with your child's service, but you're lashing out to someone who is telling you there is literally nothing they can do to solve your problem.

I’m the one who posted about spec Ed. Not a taunt just the hard truth. And I’m not a failure at my job, I’m actually a really good spec Ed teacher and I advocate hard for the kids on my caseload. But these are the truths of the conditions in mcps and that’s what the thread asked about. Sometimes I wish parents knew so they didn’t believe the BS . That being said, parents should not be angry at the teachers - it’s the system and lack of appropriate resources

If you really wanted parents to know, why not tell them instead of lying to them to get them to “go away”? I don’t get it. That’s something that is absolutely in your power to do, and doesn’t even take a lot of effort.

And get fired ? Or written up by my boss/ supervisor for telling you that? No way

People outside teaching have no idea what pressures teachers face. No idea at all. I wish it were as simple as the PPs suggest re: just talking to parents.

In that case, let’s at least agree that the public school staff knowingly lying to parents of children with special needs don’t own the moral high ground.

I still don't understand the support in this thread for teachers actively participating in covering-up malfeasance, but I guess some people think that's ok for... reasons.

DCUM asks for the truth from real teachers and just cannot handle it.

I guess that’s it. I expected that they would at least try to act in good faith, and be remorseful when they don’t. Apparently that wasn’t a realistic expectation. As you suggested, it’s a bit shocking.

I’m the OP who shocked everyone with comments about spec Ed. I never said there is lack of good faith or lack of attempt to implement. There is. But at the end of the day, there are many unreasonable requests from parents , advocates and lawyers and they just cannot be provided the way the iep is written. But I can’t say that and there is no way my admin will say it. Some admin will say it depending on the parent but if they have representation (lawyer or advocate) we agree to it all usually. It’s just not worth fighting. But this forum asked what I want you to know. I want you to know that if you have a case manager with 20 kids on a caseload , serving 3 grade levels or more, and large class sizes …. It might not be happening!

I'm a np. Can you give us some examples of unreasonable requests by parents? It seems like parents of sped students rightfully are so focused on fighting for their kids (understandable) that they aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Different poster, and I'm an SLP and case manager. The most frequent difficult request I get is to increase service time or see them individually. Or to not pull them out of specific classes.

I have one student that has 4x the service time that most come in with and the parents don't want them seen in a group and don't want them missing class. It's just not possible. There aren't enough hours in the day. Or the parents who want me to address things that don't affect academics, and their kid who doesn't even want to address it. It's just not how the system is set up.

We operate differently than private practice SLPs. We are just as qualified, but the job itself has its restraints.

What's clear is that the school district tries to minimize the dollars spent on special education students when the law says each child is entitled to an appropriate education.
A child who needs slp services will get some but they will be taken out of Math class inorder to do so, so the student now has 2 struggles.
Mainstream schools are not appropriate for special education children in many, many circumstances.
It is infuriating to see the school board funnel money to pet political projects instead of to students who are given the poorest, least amount of an education that mcps can "somewhat legally" get away with

This is absolutely it. We knew the school could not provide the services so we thought, “Why are we going to waste our time and theirs by banging on and on and on about it?” In the meantime, my SN child only has one life to live and time’s a wasting, so we took our needy selves out of the system and left more resources for others. The system is broke and our child and many others cannot get a FAPE education there, so be it.

[Anonymous]

The special ed shortage is real and I’m not sure those who don’t work in a school understand it. If 25 kids in second grade all have IEPs and there is one special ed teacher for the entire grade, there aren’t enough hours in the day for that teacher to meet everyone’s needs. Classroom teachers and support staff fill the gaps as best as they can, but no, a special educator isn’t providing all of your child’s services.

Having an advocate is wonderful but can’t make staff the school doesn’t have appear. I am no apologist for MCPS after years of fighting with them for my own kid but they do have to work with the staff they attract.

This. The staffing in special education needs to reflect the actual needs of the students. Unt8l it does, teachers are just drowning trying to make it work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a special education teacher but a general education teacher. From what I have seen, no one is trying to lie and hide things on purpose. The special education team at my school genuinely cares about kids and advocates for them. It just becomes impossible sometimes to provide all the supports that some students need. The staff is overwhelmed. Some iep meetings take several hours and that is just for one student. Some parents can also be unreasonable and unrealistic. Lawsuits happen frequently and cause additional stress along with an extra deluge of paperwork.

Our best teacher which was only one year tried hard to advocate for our child and was denied at every point. She was fantastic and the only one who took the time to get our kid. The special education teacher did not get the issues at all. What may seem unreasonable to you may not be and just unrealistic for you do you call it unreasonable. Kids can be complex but it’s the kids who are quiet and not demanding who are often the ones who need the most help who get ignored.

Classroom sizes need to be smaller. It is impossible to give all students the attention they need given standard class sizes in MCPS. And for a general education teacher, all kids need attention and support to thrive whether they are high performing, low performing, special needs or not, quiet or outgoing. Every single child in the classroom needs/wants attention. This means the teacher only has a limited amount of time to devote to students with IEPs which is often difficult for some parents to understand. HS classes can often be 30-35 students.

[Anonymous]

Do general education teachers receive any training in how to teach or even how to understand SN children? Are teachers aware of what adhd, autism, etc are? So many are mainstreamed into general Ed that SN teachers aren't even in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do general education teachers receive any training in how to teach or even how to understand SN children? Are teachers aware of what adhd, autism, etc are? So many are mainstreamed into general Ed that SN teachers aren't even in their lives.

Yes. Every teacher needs to take at least 6 credits of special education classes to be certified. We also receive ongoing PD.

What we don’t receive are a lot of additional resources or support. I’ve had classes in which 1/3 of my students have 504s and IEPs.

[Anonymous]

I'm not "the help."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends - if they have an iep? I’d tell them that most of the services are delivered by the general Ed teacher because inclusion spec Ed teachers are stretched too thin and we spend so much time on paperwork and not with kids. I’d also tell them no matter what they “advocate for” in the iep, it doesn’t actually happen during the school day due to limited resources and time so half the time we just agree to make you go away

We know. Thanks for being a failure in your life's work.

Likewise for being a failure at actual life. (Lack of empathy is the first sign of being a psychopath)

"I decided to use an anonymous forum to taunt distraught parents of special needs kids in a blasé manner about how we fail their children. But you're the psychopath! Poor me!"
PP

The thread is what we would tell parents if we could. I appreciated that teachers transparency and didn't read it as a taunt. You're clearly dissatisfied with your child's service, but you're lashing out to someone who is telling you there is literally nothing they can do to solve your problem.

I’m the one who posted about spec Ed. Not a taunt just the hard truth. And I’m not a failure at my job, I’m actually a really good spec Ed teacher and I advocate hard for the kids on my caseload. But these are the truths of the conditions in mcps and that’s what the thread asked about. Sometimes I wish parents knew so they didn’t believe the BS . That being said, parents should not be angry at the teachers - it’s the system and lack of appropriate resources

If you really wanted parents to know, why not tell them instead of lying to them to get them to “go away”? I don’t get it. That’s something that is absolutely in your power to do, and doesn’t even take a lot of effort.

And get fired ? Or written up by my boss/ supervisor for telling you that? No way

People outside teaching have no idea what pressures teachers face. No idea at all. I wish it were as simple as the PPs suggest re: just talking to parents.

In that case, let’s at least agree that the public school staff knowingly lying to parents of children with special needs don’t own the moral high ground.

I still don't understand the support in this thread for teachers actively participating in covering-up malfeasance, but I guess some people think that's ok for... reasons.

DCUM asks for the truth from real teachers and just cannot handle it.

I guess that’s it. I expected that they would at least try to act in good faith, and be remorseful when they don’t. Apparently that wasn’t a realistic expectation. As you suggested, it’s a bit shocking.

I’m the OP who shocked everyone with comments about spec Ed. I never said there is lack of good faith or lack of attempt to implement. There is. But at the end of the day, there are many unreasonable requests from parents , advocates and lawyers and they just cannot be provided the way the iep is written. But I can’t say that and there is no way my admin will say it. Some admin will say it depending on the parent but if they have representation (lawyer or advocate) we agree to it all usually. It’s just not worth fighting. But this forum asked what I want you to know. I want you to know that if you have a case manager with 20 kids on a caseload , serving 3 grade levels or more, and large class sizes …. It might not be happening!

I'm a np. Can you give us some examples of unreasonable requests by parents? It seems like parents of sped students rightfully are so focused on fighting for their kids (understandable) that they aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Different poster, and I'm an SLP and case manager. The most frequent difficult request I get is to increase service time or see them individually. Or to not pull them out of specific classes.

I have one student that has 4x the service time that most come in with and the parents don't want them seen in a group and don't want them missing class. It's just not possible. There aren't enough hours in the day. Or the parents who want me to address things that don't affect academics, and their kid who doesn't even want to address it. It's just not how the system is set up.

We operate differently than private practice SLPs. We are just as qualified, but the job itself has its restraints.

What's clear is that the school district tries to minimize the dollars spent on special education students when the law says each child is entitled to an appropriate education.
A child who needs slp services will get some but they will be taken out of Math class inorder to do so, so the student now has 2 struggles.
Mainstream schools are not appropriate for special education children in many, many circumstances.
It is infuriating to see the school board funnel money to pet political projects instead of to students who are given the poorest, least amount of an education that mcps can "somewhat legally" get away with

This is absolutely it. We knew the school could not provide the services so we thought, “Why are we going to waste our time and theirs by banging on and on and on about it?” In the meantime, my SN child only has one life to live and time’s a wasting, so we took our needy selves out of the system and left more resources for others. The system is broke and our child and many others cannot get a FAPE education there, so be it.

Former MCPS Special Ed teacher turned advocate. This is all absolutely correct. Some schools will fight tooth and nail to do as little as possible. Especially post -pandemic, they are rolling the dice that families don't pursue mediation or due process.

[Anonymous]

I promise to believe half of what your child tells me happens at home if you promise to believe half of what there tell you happens at school.

[Anonymous]

So many of the fights that happen between people in the trenches, parents and chatroom teachers, are caused by people who have never been in one. Looking at you admin, Central office, Dept of Ed, mcea, etc. We have to find common ground and realize we're being played.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a special education teacher but a general education teacher. From what I have seen, no one is trying to lie and hide things on purpose. The special education team at my school genuinely cares about kids and advocates for them. It just becomes impossible sometimes to provide all the supports that some students need. The staff is overwhelmed. Some iep meetings take several hours and that is just for one student. Some parents can also be unreasonable and unrealistic. Lawsuits happen frequently and cause additional stress along with an extra deluge of paperwork.

Our best teacher which was only one year tried hard to advocate for our child and was denied at every point. She was fantastic and the only one who took the time to get our kid. The special education teacher did not get the issues at all. What may seem unreasonable to you may not be and just unrealistic for you do you call it unreasonable. Kids can be complex but it’s the kids who are quiet and not demanding who are often the ones who need the most help who get ignored.

Classroom sizes need to be smaller. It is impossible to give all students the attention they need given standard class sizes in MCPS. And for a general education teacher, all kids need attention and support to thrive whether they are high performing, low performing, special needs or not, quiet or outgoing. Every single child in the classroom needs/wants attention. This means the teacher only has a limited amount of time to devote to students with IEPs which is often difficult for some parents to understand. HS classes can often be 30-35 students.

YES! Teaching would be so much more effective with smaller classes - My AP once asked our department (science) what would help us be more successful and I said 24 students MAX in each science class. He rolled his eyes and said yeah...that's not happening. Sigh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do general education teachers receive any training in how to teach or even how to understand SN children? Are teachers aware of what adhd, autism, etc are? So many are mainstreamed into general Ed that SN teachers aren't even in their lives.

Yes. Every teacher needs to take at least 6 credits of special education classes to be certified. We also receive ongoing PD.

What we don’t receive are a lot of additional resources or support. I’ve had classes in which 1/3 of my students have 504s and IEPs.

Do they? I am doing an alternative certification program and have been full time teaching with no special education training for 2+ years. No one told me the first thing about IEPs, 504s, or how to support special education students. But eventually you figure it out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a special education teacher but a general education teacher. From what I have seen, no one is trying to lie and hide things on purpose. The special education team at my school genuinely cares about kids and advocates for them. It just becomes impossible sometimes to provide all the supports that some students need. The staff is overwhelmed. Some iep meetings take several hours and that is just for one student. Some parents can also be unreasonable and unrealistic. Lawsuits happen frequently and cause additional stress along with an extra deluge of paperwork.

Our best teacher which was only one year tried hard to advocate for our child and was denied at every point. She was fantastic and the only one who took the time to get our kid. The special education teacher did not get the issues at all. What may seem unreasonable to you may not be and just unrealistic for you do you call it unreasonable. Kids can be complex but it’s the kids who are quiet and not demanding who are often the ones who need the most help who get ignored.

Classroom sizes need to be smaller. It is impossible to give all students the attention they need given standard class sizes in MCPS. And for a general education teacher, all kids need attention and support to thrive whether they are high performing, low performing, special needs or not, quiet or outgoing. Every single child in the classroom needs/wants attention. This means the teacher only has a limited amount of time to devote to students with IEPs which is often difficult for some parents to understand. HS classes can often be 30-35 students.

Agree, but they also need to stop lumping kids together for the sake of equity. My kid was forced for a year in a special education class despite mild needs because they said all kids with IEPs had to be in one classroom as it was easier on them. My kid got nothing as that didn't match their needs and academically were on target.

One of our HS classes had 40 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do general education teachers receive any training in how to teach or even how to understand SN children? Are teachers aware of what adhd, autism, etc are? So many are mainstreamed into general Ed that SN teachers aren't even in their lives.

Yes. Every teacher needs to take at least 6 credits of special education classes to be certified. We also receive ongoing PD.

What we don’t receive are a lot of additional resources or support. I’ve had classes in which 1/3 of my students have 504s and IEPs.

six credits is only 2 classes. Thats not much of anything given how many different needs there are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The special ed shortage is real and I’m not sure those who don’t work in a school understand it. If 25 kids in second grade all have IEPs and there is one special ed teacher for the entire grade, there aren’t enough hours in the day for that teacher to meet everyone’s needs. Classroom teachers and support staff fill the gaps as best as they can, but no, a special educator isn’t providing all of your child’s services.

Having an advocate is wonderful but can’t make staff the school doesn’t have appear. I am no apologist for MCPS after years of fighting with them for my own kid but they do have to work with the staff they attract.

We 100% understand it but we also understand that if those 25 kids and the others who aren't identified aren't doing something as basic as reading, then they are basically doomed for their entire school career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not a special education teacher but a general education teacher. From what I have seen, no one is trying to lie and hide things on purpose. The special education team at my school genuinely cares about kids and advocates for them. It just becomes impossible sometimes to provide all the supports that some students need. The staff is overwhelmed. Some iep meetings take several hours and that is just for one student. Some parents can also be unreasonable and unrealistic. Lawsuits happen frequently and cause additional stress along with an extra deluge of paperwork.

Our best teacher which was only one year tried hard to advocate for our child and was denied at every point. She was fantastic and the only one who took the time to get our kid. The special education teacher did not get the issues at all. What may seem unreasonable to you may not be and just unrealistic for you do you call it unreasonable. Kids can be complex but it’s the kids who are quiet and not demanding who are often the ones who need the most help who get ignored.

Classroom sizes need to be smaller. It is impossible to give all students the attention they need given standard class sizes in MCPS. And for a general education teacher, all kids need attention and support to thrive whether they are high performing, low performing, special needs or not, quiet or outgoing. Every single child in the classroom needs/wants attention. This means the teacher only has a limited amount of time to devote to students with IEPs which is often difficult for some parents to understand. HS classes can often be 30-35 students.

Agree, but they also need to stop lumping kids together for the sake of equity. My kid was forced for a year in a special education class despite mild needs because they said all kids with IEPs had to be in one classroom as it was easier on them. My kid got nothing as that didn't match their needs and academically were on target.

One of our HS classes had 40 kids.

Parents need to start organizing and fighting back. Classrooms will soon look like college lecture halls