Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

[Anonymous]

Overbearing parents made teachers want to quit.

[Anonymous]

Not just want to.
But it’s OK, because the solution to the problem is to make it easier to become a teacher.
You’ll have to live with the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

Lots of jobs have high turnover that don't require a high degree of skill.

I'm not saying teaching doesn't require skills-- clearly, you need to be skilled to be a good teacher, at least. But it is ridiculous to point to the 5 year turnover as a sign that few can do the job.

It does illustrate how many *think* they can do the job and then realize what the job actually entails. Teaching does require a very high degree of skill, but you don’t really become fully aware of that until your first week in the classroom. Until then, it’s merely theory. I spent undergrad thinking I was walking into a fantastic job of 8-3 days playing with kiddos. I had no idea. None.

Being able to do a job is different from being willing to do a job. And both are different from wanting to do a job. New teachers quitting simply implies they don't want to do the job. And that will be for a variety of reasons, many of which are unrelated to pay or ability. Increasing pay by 10-20% would capture some of the people that don't particularly want to do the job, but are willing to do it. However, at that point you're really just working on the margins.

And no, the unfortunate reality is that holding a teaching job does not require a high degree of skill. Being a good teacher does, but bad teachers can get by with minimal effort and skill provided they're willing and able to do just above the bare minimum. And they'll ultimately make just as much money as the highly skilled teachers.

Here’s the thing: you are arguing with a GOOD teacher. I am the one with overflowing classes because parent move their teens over to me. I am a GOOD teacher because I possess the remarkable collection of skills necessary to move 140 students each year, helping them become stronger learners in tangible and intangible ways. I work absurd hours and I almost always have to put my own family second to the job. I NEVER complain in real life, but I come here (stupidly) to this anonymous board and read comments about how teachers lack skill, are bottom-barrel college graduates, and how they have it so easy. It’s all nonsense written by people who don’t have a clue how heavy the demands are on good teachers. I’ve spent the last decade watching good teachers say “forget this” and walk off to higher-paying jobs. I’m next. I’m out. It scares me because the other good teachers, the ones we all assume will be there for our own children, are also making plans to leave. All this useless bickering on DCUM illustrates that the strong teachers are justified in leaving. I have my own young kids, however, and I already see the classrooms being filled with literally anybody we can grab. Are we okay with that as a society? I guess so, reading the attacks on this thread.

You admit above that being a good teacher requires a high degree of skills, but then you say society should hold us down to the level of bad, phone-it-in teachers. That is the only type we’ll have left soon.

I am sure you are a good teacher. I wish in general society paid more for these types of skills. But the fact remains that we don't. it IS NOT JUST TEACHERS and teachers have some great perks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

To translate, I believe you just said that the teachers who devote themself wholeheartedly to their students and to the profession, even making unprecedented strides during a pandemic that was not of their causing, deserve all the hostility and hatred coming their way. If I understand correctly, that’s simply because they share a profession with a few lazy teachers you may have witnessed during Covid. I’m sure I also assume correctly that the fact these tremendous, selfless teachers are also working parents with their own needs and concerns means nothing to you. I’m sure there’s no way you can give them any kind words or empathy.

That’s a shame. They would do so for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

You have all that in the private sector AND the responsibility to deliver results.

XYZ are your goals.

Meet them? Bonus, promotion over time.

Don't meet them? Fired.

If teachers worked this way, the best ones at educating kids would stay and make much more money. The worst would leave.

But you prefer to work as in communist USSR, same for all, and there you have your consequences.

Your argument is unclear. Are you suggesting teachers don’t have the responsibility to deliver results? What the heck have I been doing with all my tracked data and pass rates all these years? “A through Z” are my goals and I have to meet them each year. When I meet them, I am not put on a performance improvement plan and I am not fired. That’s all I get for performing well. What we don’t get are your promotions and bonuses. So we have all of your work and responsibilities with none of your perks.

As for “the best ones staying,” right now they are leaving because they are tired of the way they are treated. It seems you are arguing for bonuses and better salaries for good teachers. Bring it! As a good teacher, you have me on board! Now here’s my question: how will you evaluate good teachers? People within education have been struggling with that for decades. I’m sure you have a solution for them, however.

Blah blah blah with zero accountability blah blah blah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

You have all that in the private sector AND the responsibility to deliver results.

XYZ are your goals.

Meet them? Bonus, promotion over time.

Don't meet them? Fired.

If teachers worked this way, the best ones at educating kids would stay and make much more money. The worst would leave.

But you prefer to work as in communist USSR, same for all, and there you have your consequences.

Your argument is unclear. Are you suggesting teachers don’t have the responsibility to deliver results? What the heck have I been doing with all my tracked data and pass rates all these years? “A through Z” are my goals and I have to meet them each year. When I meet them, I am not put on a performance improvement plan and I am not fired. That’s all I get for performing well. What we don’t get are your promotions and bonuses. So we have all of your work and responsibilities with none of your perks.

As for “the best ones staying,” right now they are leaving because they are tired of the way they are treated. It seems you are arguing for bonuses and better salaries for good teachers. Bring it! As a good teacher, you have me on board! Now here’s my question: how will you evaluate good teachers? People within education have been struggling with that for decades. I’m sure you have a solution for them, however.

Blah blah blah with zero accountability blah blah blah

Or… vast accountability. I’m accountable to my students, their parents, my grade level team members, and my administration. I have to prove my preparation and effectiveness through posted lesson plans, unannounced observations, student surveys, and a ton of student test data (both in-house and state driven). Two poor evals (or a couple parent complaints) and I’m on an improvement plan and possibly out the door.

It’s best not to speak on topics about which you have no knowledge or experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

Um… I’m a private school teacher. I showed up. We were only virtual for a couple of months, and then we were in-person for the rest of the pandemic. Want to try again?

My best friend is a public school teacher. She bent over backwards to teach advanced Chem online. I was blown away by the variety of work-arounds she found, including doing AP-level labs at home using common household supplies. She showed ingenuity and a deep concern for her students. You do NOT get to blame a teacher like her for the shortcomings of others. Say “thank you” for the countless hours she put in to successfully teach students virtually and move on.

Is there a way to pay just her more? No? Well, then she’s going to get treated like the rest of the teachers that said parents were perfectly capable of doing the job of the teacher while simultaneously working their own full-time job (sometimes out of the house).

To translate, I believe you just said that the teachers who devote themself wholeheartedly to their students and to the profession, even making unprecedented strides during a pandemic that was not of their causing, deserve all the hostility and hatred coming their way. If I understand correctly, that’s simply because they share a profession with a few lazy teachers you may have witnessed during Covid. I’m sure I also assume correctly that the fact these tremendous, selfless teachers are also working parents with their own needs and concerns means nothing to you. I’m sure there’s no way you can give them any kind words or empathy.

That’s a shame. They would do so for you.

That’s not at all what I said. Quite the opposite. But the unfortunate reality is that the devoted teachers were in the minority in places like the DMV. The unions, which for better or worse speak for the majority of teachers, fought to keep schools closed, telling parents that were capable of teaching their own kids while working their own jobs. The teachers that were willing to acknowledge that was harmful to students and advocate for reopening were few and far between.

It doesn't speak highly for the profession as a whole if they think untrained parents (many of whom lack a college education) can do their jobs effectively in a couple of hours between the end of the day and bedtime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18 pages of BS.
Teachers get paid generously for the number of hours a year they work.
Nurses should get paid more than they do.

Teachers whine about it and nurses don't.

I am a nurse and we mostly certainly do whine about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go into a hospital or nursing home and look at the nurses working there. I'd guess it's at least 50% first generation immigrants from Africa, the Philippines, and Latin America. Native-born Americans don't seem to want to be nurses, by and large. I don't think this is a pay thing. Travelling nurses are making the equivalent of $300K / year right now! There just isn't enough supply.

I also have trouble with the teachers argument. Teachers in Montgomery County make $70+ (avg. is $78K per MCPS website), plus great healthcare, summers off, and defined benefit pensions upon 30 years service. That sounds pretty great to me.

It really depends on the area and specialty. Nursing homes are staffed by CNAs and a few LPNs. I would say the older nurses maybe skew more diverse? It seems like most bushy tailed bright eyed orientees I precept are white and in their 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nurse. I think nurses and teachers (and other professions that are not as well compensated as some of the DCUM professions) wouldn't complain as much if our salaries had kept up with inflation. No one goes into these professions to make loads of money, but you want to be able to make a living.
As far as demand/supply. Maybe that works more in the corporate world? In places with nursing shortages, they are not increasing wages. They hire travel nurses (who are $$ but cheaper than hiring staff with benefits long tern), they push the limits on staffing to dangerous levels. Some hospitals have began to hire foreign born nurses so they do not have to spend as much money.

As far as teaching, is it really a supply/demand issue? I mean Florida is hiring people without any qualifications to teach.

Those people are teaching. They are warm bodies brought in to babysit because kids can't sit in a classroom unattended.

That's my point. If it was supply/demand, then you would be increasing salaries according to some of the arguments on this thread. But no, apparently that's not feasible. Instead, hire incompetent replacements.
In order to make teaching more appealing to students and really good students-you do have to increase salaries. Period. The let's just appeal to teachers/nurses sense of duty and call the professions a "calling" is BS. It's something used by the powers at be to not address fair compensation.

We’re getting to a critical point, however, and those powers-that-be can no longer refer to it as a “calling” in an effort to exploit. Teachers have had enough and they’re leaving. That’s why it’s becoming a supply and demand issue. The demand will be great when classrooms are empty. These half-measures (lowering requirements, etc) will not work. Districts will have to respond by correcting past errors. That’ll look like better compensation and more reasonable workloads. Unfortunately, it’ll take time for us to hit rock bottom before this will happen. Millions of kids will suffer first.

PP you are responding to and I agree the it's calling BS is not working. Covid made nurses realize we are expendable. And the nurses coming into the field in their 20s don't buy into the sacrifice oneself for a job non-sense. Most of them leave in less than 2 years to be NPs or CRNAs (which is scary because you need nurses with experience at the bedside). I would hope that the powers at be would come to their senses but I doubt it. They don't give a crap if it hurts patients or generations of children. It's all about the money. No matter how many nurses/teachers we need, it doesn't matter. There is no profit to be made out of most of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how many posters blame teachers for the school calendar. Which is an antiquated relic from when kids were needed to help with planting. If you don't think we should take off three months in the summer than vote accordingly in school board elections. Parents have a much bigger voice in those elections than teachers

Not exactly true:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/debunking-myth-summer-vacation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that teachers are underpaid other than in a few states. It’s that they are overworked.

Paying teachers more would encourage them to stay, but so would balancing out the teacher load, reducing the number of hours they are with kids in a classroom, providing more support for special needs, and providing them with the tools they need to teach.

Keeping an individual teacher pay the same, but adding additional support staff and reducing the number of hours of actual instruction a teacher does from say 6 to 4 or 4.5 would have the added benefit of raising test scores in the way that just paying them more does not.

In an 8 hour day, four hours of instruction, 3 hours for planning, grading, prep (including prep for SN kids), 30 min meeting, and 30 minute lunch would be reasonable and keep teachers teaching.

I’m an ES teacher in Fairfax Co. My DW is also a ES teacher. Pay is not something we have a complaint about. Although there have been pay freeze years, I otherwise rarely hear anyone complaining about their pay. It seems to me the bigger concerns are workload, assessments and lack of planning time. There are thread over on the FCPS board in which people are saying this repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering there are over 3M teachers and 5M nurses in the US that is going to limit the salary. I know most don’t want to believe it but they are common jobs that many many millions could do with some standard training.

What jobs with that type of quantity pay a high salary? Big tech is likely under 100k jobs that pay the big bucks. How many high paid executives are there, likely under 1M. Who would pay these high salaries for 8M workers, the median wage is in the 60-70k range.

Sorry, but that’s simply not true. If teaching really were a job that many millions could do with some standard training, it wouldn’t have such an incredibly high burnout rate in the first 5 years. The truth is, training only gets you so far. You can understand content, but you need to have a collection of personal and interpersonal skills to actually succeed in a classroom. Unfortunately, people who haven’t taught don’t grasp the emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual demands each day brings.

To be a good teacher, you need to be a strong communicator, listener, and collaborator. You need to be adaptable yet organized, patient yet timely, and understanding yet demanding. You need strong presentation skills that can successfully reach a wide variety of audiences. You need to be very good with data, including how to create opportunities to gather accurate data you can subsequently track and organize. You need time management and the ability to hold your hunger and bladder. You need the ability to be at your 100% A game each day, regardless of what is happening in your personal life. You need to be ready to be around (and responsible for) many other people each day without a moment to yourself. Teaching is a 180 day sprint with no real chance to relax until the summer hits. That type of endurance can’t be taught. You have the ability or you don’t.

None of this can be true. How do I know this?
Because during the pandemic all we heard from teachers is that weren’t going to risk getting sick to be a babysitter. Nope, anyone can teach and if students flailed and experienced learning loss, it was because the parents weren’t doing their jobs i.e, being a teacher. In essence teachers convinced struggling parents and students that anyone can teach and being in a classroom was mere babysitting services.
That is the house you built.
Nurses showed up, police showed up, firefighters showed up, hell retail workers saved the day. But teachers? Nope they don’t “babysit “. Own that.

PP, why do you keep trying to compare teachers to cops and retail workers?