Arlington Missing Middle Housing Q&A

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any lawyers know if it will be possible to tie up MM in court?


Sort of like Lyon Village’s lawsuit to block affordable housing at the church? Lyon Village lost and there is no meaningful difference in that neighborhood. Lots of hysteria for nothing. MM is the same.


The church is on the edge of Lyon Village. MM housing can be built on the H streets which are the most valuable in Lyon Village. BCN can now squeeze 3 townhouses on a lot rather than on house. Six cars instead of two and rental rather than owner occupied


Except they won’t because the only townhouses north of a million have a double garage underneath and you can’t fit 3 townhouses with double garages on the average Lyon Village lot. BCN’s model is the SFH and they are crushing it.


No garages in missing middle housing. Only a half a parking space per unit. Under missing middle housing, a builder can construct 3 townhouses on an 8,000 sq ft lot. You think some striver associate won’t pay $1.5 M to be on Hartford St with all the swells?


G*d, I hope so. But no, I don’t think that will happen. Missing Middle parking standards are minimums. The market will still dictate what gets built. You need a garage for a townhouse at that price point. The luxury townhomes in Arlington top out at 1.3-1.4 and they are larger than what could get built on most LV lots.


Missing Middle is not about replicating existing townhouses but creating townhouses in single family neighborhoods . You may not be able to sell a townhouse at $1.3M without a garage in Ballston, but if someone can but a $1.3M townhouse in the heart of Lyon Village without a garage, you think they won’t buy it?


I really don’t. If you squeeze 3 garage-less townhouses onto the average LV lot, you’re going to be below 2000 SF without parking. I don’t think someone will pay 1.3M for that. You can pay 1.3 for a TH on the edge of LV- but still IN LV, and get more square footage plus a double garage.

I could be wrong, we won’t know until it happens. But I don’t see more than a duplex being feasible on those size lots.


I have at 50 ft wide lot in LV, at about 5800 sq ft. Width of house is about 32 feet. Even with no driveway I don’t think you can build three townhouses unless you make them less than 15 ft wide (which is narrow even by NYC standards). Duplexes seem more likely.



Your lot is too small. MM needs an 8000 sq ft lot for 3 townhouses. Lots under 6000 sq ft would be for duplexes. Fortunately, BCN has o effected the high end duplex market with the set he built on Wakefield St. He can easily repeat them in Lyon Village.


He already built a duplex in LV. On one of the H roads I believe.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any lawyers know if it will be possible to tie up MM in court?


Sort of like Lyon Village’s lawsuit to block affordable housing at the church? Lyon Village lost and there is no meaningful difference in that neighborhood. Lots of hysteria for nothing. MM is the same.


The church is on the edge of Lyon Village. MM housing can be built on the H streets which are the most valuable in Lyon Village. BCN can now squeeze 3 townhouses on a lot rather than on house. Six cars instead of two and rental rather than owner occupied


Except they won’t because the only townhouses north of a million have a double garage underneath and you can’t fit 3 townhouses with double garages on the average Lyon Village lot. BCN’s model is the SFH and they are crushing it.


No garages in missing middle housing. Only a half a parking space per unit. Under missing middle housing, a builder can construct 3 townhouses on an 8,000 sq ft lot. You think some striver associate won’t pay $1.5 M to be on Hartford St with all the swells?


G*d, I hope so. But no, I don’t think that will happen. Missing Middle parking standards are minimums. The market will still dictate what gets built. You need a garage for a townhouse at that price point. The luxury townhomes in Arlington top out at 1.3-1.4 and they are larger than what could get built on most LV lots.


Missing Middle is not about replicating existing townhouses but creating townhouses in single family neighborhoods . You may not be able to sell a townhouse at $1.3M without a garage in Ballston, but if someone can but a $1.3M townhouse in the heart of Lyon Village without a garage, you think they won’t buy it?


I really don’t. If you squeeze 3 garage-less townhouses onto the average LV lot, you’re going to be below 2000 SF without parking. I don’t think someone will pay 1.3M for that. You can pay 1.3 for a TH on the edge of LV- but still IN LV, and get more square footage plus a double garage.

I could be wrong, we won’t know until it happens. But I don’t see more than a duplex being feasible on those size lots.


I have at 50 ft wide lot in LV, at about 5800 sq ft. Width of house is about 32 feet. Even with no driveway I don’t think you can build three townhouses unless you make them less than 15 ft wide (which is narrow even by NYC standards). Duplexes seem more likely.



Your lot is too small. MM needs an 8000 sq ft lot for 3 townhouses. Lots under 6000 sq ft would be for duplexes. Fortunately, BCN has o effected the high end duplex market with the set he built on Wakefield St. He can easily repeat them in Lyon Village.


He already built a duplex in LV. On one of the H roads I believe.



That would be very interesting if Brian was able to get a variance to build a duplex in Lyon Village. He did a custom build recently on Hartford St. Is that a duplex?
He was able to build the duplex on Wakefield St. because there was an old duplex on the lot and he could build a new duplex by right.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any lawyers know if it will be possible to tie up MM in court?


Sort of like Lyon Village’s lawsuit to block affordable housing at the church? Lyon Village lost and there is no meaningful difference in that neighborhood. Lots of hysteria for nothing. MM is the same.


The church is on the edge of Lyon Village. MM housing can be built on the H streets which are the most valuable in Lyon Village. BCN can now squeeze 3 townhouses on a lot rather than on house. Six cars instead of two and rental rather than owner occupied


Except they won’t because the only townhouses north of a million have a double garage underneath and you can’t fit 3 townhouses with double garages on the average Lyon Village lot. BCN’s model is the SFH and they are crushing it.


No garages in missing middle housing. Only a half a parking space per unit. Under missing middle housing, a builder can construct 3 townhouses on an 8,000 sq ft lot. You think some striver associate won’t pay $1.5 M to be on Hartford St with all the swells?


G*d, I hope so. But no, I don’t think that will happen. Missing Middle parking standards are minimums. The market will still dictate what gets built. You need a garage for a townhouse at that price point. The luxury townhomes in Arlington top out at 1.3-1.4 and they are larger than what could get built on most LV lots.


Missing Middle is not about replicating existing townhouses but creating townhouses in single family neighborhoods . You may not be able to sell a townhouse at $1.3M without a garage in Ballston, but if someone can but a $1.3M townhouse in the heart of Lyon Village without a garage, you think they won’t buy it?


I really don’t. If you squeeze 3 garage-less townhouses onto the average LV lot, you’re going to be below 2000 SF without parking. I don’t think someone will pay 1.3M for that. You can pay 1.3 for a TH on the edge of LV- but still IN LV, and get more square footage plus a double garage.

I could be wrong, we won’t know until it happens. But I don’t see more than a duplex being feasible on those size lots.


I have at 50 ft wide lot in LV, at about 5800 sq ft. Width of house is about 32 feet. Even with no driveway I don’t think you can build three townhouses unless you make them less than 15 ft wide (which is narrow even by NYC standards). Duplexes seem more likely.



Your lot is too small. MM needs an 8000 sq ft lot for 3 townhouses. Lots under 6000 sq ft would be for duplexes. Fortunately, BCN has o effected the high end duplex market with the set he built on Wakefield St. He can easily repeat them in Lyon Village.


He already built a duplex in LV. On one of the H roads I believe.



That would be very interesting if Brian was able to get a variance to build a duplex in Lyon Village. He did a custom build recently on Hartford St. Is that a duplex?
He was able to build the duplex on Wakefield St. because there was an old duplex on the lot and he could build a new duplex by right.


I'm not sure how the title/ownership works - might be considered a SFH - but it's two units.

I can't keep track of the H streets. One of those.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true


Felony for bad checks? WTH? Automatic disqualifier.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true


Felony for bad checks? WTH? Automatic disqualifier.


I'm fine with second chances. But I think there's something deeply cynical about telling gullible renters that they're entitled to their choice of housing in their desired location at a price that fits the salary of their chosen career.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true


Felony for bad checks? WTH? Automatic disqualifier.


I'm fine with second chances. But I think there's something deeply cynical about telling gullible renters that they're entitled to their choice of housing in their desired location at a price that fits the salary of their chosen career.


Do you think there's any thing cynical about telling elderly voters that nothing in their neighborhood needs to change, ever, because what they're used to is what the deserve forever?

I'm not voting for anyone who describes themselves as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, which is code for "I've got mine and that's proof that the system works"
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true


Felony for bad checks? WTH? Automatic disqualifier.


I'm fine with second chances. But I think there's something deeply cynical about telling gullible renters that they're entitled to their choice of housing in their desired location at a price that fits the salary of their chosen career.


Do you think there's any thing cynical about telling elderly voters that nothing in their neighborhood needs to change, ever, because what they're used to is what the deserve forever?

I'm not voting for anyone who describes themselves as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, which is code for "I've got mine and that's proof that the system works"



In my Arlington neighborhood the elderly voters are all for Missing Middle housing. They know it will increase the value of their lots when they sell. It is the younger people, particularly the government workers in the original houses with modest additions, and the new buyers in the McMansion who are against Missing Middle housing. A lot of them moved from DC or congested parts of Arlington. All I heard last night during trick or treating was: "We don't want to turn our neighborhood into Clarendon/Ballston/Crystal City/Shirlington.


I do wonder about people who think in terms of "codes" and then try to interpret the "codes" for sad little reasons.
Anonymous
We were looking for a house last year. New build town houses started in the 900s. How is that helping the Missing Middle? We also saw older THs that seemed a lot less expensive but when you added the HOA fees they were on par with the mortgage for a SFH, though granted we'd have to do our own yard work for the SFH (which we don't mind).

I also wish the school board and zoning boards were forced to coordinate so that schools were expanded BEFORE known students show up, not years after.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, it’s voting time. For those unhappy with the missing middle proposals, is Clement the only choice? And what differentiates Ferranti from Theo, really?



No fan of deFerranti but he has a wealthy wife and a nice, new home in Arlington so he can devote all of his time to the ACB. Adam Theo McCellan uses his middle name as a surname because his incarceration records are easy to find on Google. He is a “consultant.” He is the YIMBY candidate and also favors rank choice voting, the next divisive issue in Arlington. Audrey Clement is a long time candidate for different offices. Many anti MM residents say they are voting for Clement as a protest vote. Many pro MM residents, particularly young renters, say they will vote for Theo, believing that they can buy a $500,000 2 bedroom 2 bath in a quad plex in one of the popular single family neighborhoods

DeFerranti will probably win but there will be more protest votes than usual.


What was Adam Theo arrested for?


What he calls "teenage indiscretions." He spent a few months in jail and was able to get his felony record swiped by a sympathetic lawyer.


I thought it was bad checks in his 20s.


He doesn't really seem to be hiding it:

https://www.theoforarlington.org/2021/12/the-season-for-second-chances/?iframe=true


Felony for bad checks? WTH? Automatic disqualifier.


I'm fine with second chances. But I think there's something deeply cynical about telling gullible renters that they're entitled to their choice of housing in their desired location at a price that fits the salary of their chosen career.


Do you think there's any thing cynical about telling elderly voters that nothing in their neighborhood needs to change, ever, because what they're used to is what the deserve forever?

I'm not voting for anyone who describes themselves as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, which is code for "I've got mine and that's proof that the system works"



In my Arlington neighborhood the elderly voters are all for Missing Middle housing. They know it will increase the value of their lots when they sell. It is the younger people, particularly the government workers in the original houses with modest additions, and the new buyers in the McMansion who are against Missing Middle housing. A lot of them moved from DC or congested parts of Arlington. All I heard last night during trick or treating was: "We don't want to turn our neighborhood into Clarendon/Ballston/Crystal City/Shirlington.


I do wonder about people who think in terms of "codes" and then try to interpret the "codes" for sad little reasons.


During a recent stroll in North Arlington we saw many signs opposed to missing middle. Even at the older ramblers. And were approached by several out for a stroll or walking dogs - all older people who did not hesitate to say Hi and delve into why they wanted no missing middle.

The author of the Washington Monthly Missing Middle article https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/10/30/arlington-virginia-missing-middle-housing-zoning/ Why I Can’t Afford to Live Where I Grew Up
I’m a proud daughter of Arlington, Virginia. But its land use policies are keeping homeownership out of reach for natives like me.
by Gabby Birenbaum
October 30, 2022


Parents bought their first property, a Lyon Village 4 bedroom colonial SFH, in 1998. Note 1st - seemed to have missed the condo, duplex, townhouse, old rambler/bilevel, less great neighborhood phase of property ownership. So the author was born shortly after the parents moved in so she's 23 or 24 and expects a N ARL SF? Financing source of down payment? Sale price? Was it a fixer upper?

ARL has had decades of pass downs- sales excluded from comps for tax assessment because the property is a gift or sold to relatives at below fair market value. There are new builds or renos that were passdown properties. All those properties you see are not builders. Some have the same or only slightly larger impervious surface cover. ARL is public water and sewer so impervious surface is what counts for stormwater. ARL also has some no sidewalk streets and limited off street parking capacity-smaller lot sizes. Similar original vintage neghborhoods in Bethesda can be worse with more narrow streets - parking on both sides, no sidewalks, 2 cars can't pass, limited or no off street parking.

Anonymous
In my Arlington neighborhood the elderly voters are all for Missing Middle housing.


In my Arlington neighborhood (near the metro, big lots) it's like 9:1 against Missing Middle and it appears to hold for all age groups.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
In my Arlington neighborhood the elderly voters are all for Missing Middle housing.


In my Arlington neighborhood (near the metro, big lots) it's like 9:1 against Missing Middle and it appears to hold for all age groups.


Well, the Arlington County Board has sent a report to the planning commission, comprised of YIMBYs, allowing just about anything they want in Arlington, with a little concession on tree canopies. This is going to be fun to watch as my McMansion dwelling neighbors wake up one morning to find 16 people living in an quadplex next to their $2.5M house and multiple cars blocking the street.
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