Charters: When is yours dropping the outdoor mask mandate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

indoor masking is still required in pg public schools, so this hyperbole isn't super helpful

Hey. One additional county in the entire world is doing this.

Not at all embarrassing.

my point is that some people seem to really be leaning into this victim role that their school "will be the last in the world" -- see the hyperbolic posts above. I shared to normalize this timeline a bit even if it isn't what we all would want.

Uh, here's the latest national map: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOkxpInVgAMohIE?format=jpg&name=large

There are about 30 districts in the US with a mandate. Not that many! This means that there are actually more LEAs in DC with a mandate than there are districts in the entire country...

[Anonymous]

OMG. Avert your eyes people. It's the Surgeon General -- in a school in DC -- and no one has masks. And they lived to tell the tale.

https://twitter.com/IdaBWellsMS/status/1508920554434273289

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

They did one in Spain - google it - found no difference in group that used masks vs. group that didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

They did one in Spain - google it - found no difference in group that used masks vs. group that didn't.

I am aware of that study, but it is not an RCT. It is a good study though, and a large one, with a much more useful control group than all the hopelessly confounded observational studies they did in the US. What they found is that the older age group (6+) who wore masks actually had more in-school spread than the younger kids who were unmasked. As always with Covid, age is the most important factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

They did one in Spain - google it - found no difference in group that used masks vs. group that didn't.

I am aware of that study, but it is not an RCT. It is a good study though, and a large one, with a much more useful control group than all the hopelessly confounded observational studies they did in the US. What they found is that the older age group (6+) who wore masks actually had more in-school spread than the younger kids who were unmasked. As always with Covid, age is the most important factor.

+1

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

But the problem is that even with that Spanish study, people will come back to you and say "but these kids need to stay masked to protect vulnerable adults." And then if you point out that vulnerable adults can protect themselves by vaccinating, they get very squirrely.

We really are going to keep masking little kids to protect unvaccinated adults. We're really going to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

They did one in Spain - google it - found no difference in group that used masks vs. group that didn't.

I am aware of that study, but it is not an RCT. It is a good study though, and a large one, with a much more useful control group than all the hopelessly confounded observational studies they did in the US. What they found is that the older age group (6+) who wore masks actually had more in-school spread than the younger kids who were unmasked. As always with Covid, age is the most important factor.

+1

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

But the problem is that even with that Spanish study, people will come back to you and say "but these kids need to stay masked to protect vulnerable adults." And then if you point out that vulnerable adults can protect themselves by vaccinating, they get very squirrely.

We really are going to keep masking little kids to protect unvaccinated adults. We're really going to do it.

The fallacy here is that masking ECE kids DOESN'T protect unvaccinated adults (okay MAYBE if you have the kids in well-fitting KN95s it does, but come on!). It is just pure pandemic theater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

But you don't have any science or studies that support your position that "kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences." Studies have actually disproven this. So you want to take the autonomy of ECE kids, some who want to wear masks of their own volition, and/or supplant their parents' decisions with your own (ill-informed, ego-driven) opinions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

But you don't have any science or studies that support your position that "kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences." Studies have actually disproven this. So you want to take the autonomy of ECE kids, some who want to wear masks of their own volition, and/or supplant their parents' decisions with your own (ill-informed, ego-driven) opinions?

The studies haven't been conducted of the developmental impacts of masking ECE kids for 2 years. Show me that study. You would need an unmasked control group that hasn't masked the entire time.

And the few studies about masking in kids are just about short periods of time and aren't conclusive of much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

But you don't have any science or studies that support your position that "kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences." Studies have actually disproven this. So you want to take the autonomy of ECE kids, some who want to wear masks of their own volition, and/or supplant their parents' decisions with your own (ill-informed, ego-driven) opinions?

The studies haven't been conducted of the developmental impacts of masking ECE kids for 2 years. Show me that study. You would need an unmasked control group that hasn't masked the entire time.

And the few studies about masking in kids are just about short periods of time and aren't conclusive of much.

Edit: the few studies about the effects of masking on DEVELOPMENT of kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

But you don't have any science or studies that support your position that "kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences." Studies have actually disproven this. So you want to take the autonomy of ECE kids, some who want to wear masks of their own volition, and/or supplant their parents' decisions with your own (ill-informed, ego-driven) opinions?

The burden of proof is on people who want to engage in a practice that you never
even would have been able to get approval to study pre-covid because if you said "maybe kids don't need to see faces" that would be crazy. And they have not shown either efficacy of masking or that it doesn't negatively affect kids. On the latter, what does exist just does not have external validity on the actual topic, which is long-term school masking. In the absence of research, we have other kinds of evidence, like what we're hearing from mental health practitioners, teachers, and parents, and it's bad.

As for "autonomy", we don't even let these kids wear hats in school. My kids wear uniforms. And obviously they didn't have autonomy when we were making them wear masks. But they weren't even suggesting this, just a recommendation against doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

THIS

But you don't have any science or studies that support your position that "kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences." Studies have actually disproven this. So you want to take the autonomy of ECE kids, some who want to wear masks of their own volition, and/or supplant their parents' decisions with your own (ill-informed, ego-driven) opinions?

The studies haven't been conducted of the developmental impacts of masking ECE kids for 2 years. Show me that study. You would need an unmasked control group that hasn't masked the entire time.

And the few studies about masking in kids are just about short periods of time and aren't conclusive of much.

+1

The PP is just showing their scienfic illiteracy by claiming that studies have "disproven" any negative effects of masking children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Charters are banding together to form their own science that appeases their COVID fear mongering community and continuing indoor masking.

LA just announced masks not required indoors. It will be funny when a handful of charter in DC are the only schools worldwide still insisting on this.

And by worldwide, it really will be worldwide. I can't wait for our charter to be one of only, say, 12 schools worldwide still participating in an indoor school mask mandate. What a privileged and elite group!

Germany is still masking elementary school kids, but they also have more than ten times the case rate as DC right now. Clearly, their medical-grade mask mandate (no cloth masks since late 2020) and all their other crazy restrictions didn't prevent this surge.

Even during this surge, Germany does not require children under the age of 6 to mask. At all, even if unvaccinated, even on public transportation or at school.

Are there Asian countries that require children under 6 to mask at school? I really think the US generally, and DC specifically, is unique in masking preschool and kindergarten age children. It is so weird.

Ummm. Japan; Korea; Hong Kong...

Are 5 and unders required to mask in these countries? I honestly don’t know. Obviously older kids do and masking is more normalized in these countries due to years of masking against other viruses. But that’s not the same as masking 3 and 4 year olds, as we do here.

I wish someone would do a global study on masking kids at school. It shouldn’t even be that hard to collect data. It would be so helpful to have real comparative data on the issue.

It would be even more helpful to just have a randomized controlled trial to find out if masks in schools make a meaningful difference or not. It would be entirely feasible, but they are not doing that because they know they wouldn't get the results they want.

They did one in Spain - google it - found no difference in group that used masks vs. group that didn't.

I am aware of that study, but it is not an RCT. It is a good study though, and a large one, with a much more useful control group than all the hopelessly confounded observational studies they did in the US. What they found is that the older age group (6+) who wore masks actually had more in-school spread than the younger kids who were unmasked. As always with Covid, age is the most important factor.

+1

I'd love to see people come together to agree that, at a minimum, ECE kids shouldn't be masked unless they have a risk factor. I don't even mean "they can mask if they want", but an actual recommendation that if a child under 6 is otherwise healthy, it would be better for them not to mask in order to support language acquisition and social skill development. I think kids in this group are getting screwed out of important developmental experiences because of this temporary insanity.

But the problem is that even with that Spanish study, people will come back to you and say "but these kids need to stay masked to protect vulnerable adults." And then if you point out that vulnerable adults can protect themselves by vaccinating, they get very squirrely.

We really are going to keep masking little kids to protect unvaccinated adults. We're really going to do it.

I agree with you, but it's not just the youngest kids. There is a reason the WHO urges restraint in masking kids 6-12 as well. The way my mid-elementary kids' (who never complained about masks, so ostensibly "didn't care") social experience and enjoyment of school has improved in the past two weeks since DCPS dropped the mask mandate is stunning. Even my autistic son who had been hiding behind his mask is suddenly talking to his classmates and beginning to form social connections.

[Anonymous]

It truly is embarrassing for the whole charter school movement in DC that this is taking place.

One of the funniest aspects of this board is the dichotomy pf ostensibly progressive people making peace with sending their kids to charter schools but now we've found one issue where we don't have to.