TJ admissions decision - repercussions for Class of 2026

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

FCPS is not going to give this up based on the opinion of one judge. To think otherwise is a fantasy. They will seek a stay from the Fourth Circuit.

The 4th Circuit is evenly split between 7 Democrats and 7 Republicans as identified by which President appointed them with 1 vacancy. It is not a slam-dunk for FCPS as people would have you believe. It just depends on which 3 judges will hear the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Guess they will have to go to straight-up lottery. Too late in the game to fairly facilitate a new test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Guess they will have to go to straight-up lottery. Too late in the game to fairly facilitate a new test.

Better Late Than Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Guess they will have to go to straight-up lottery. Too late in the game to fairly facilitate a new test.

Better Late Than Sorry.

What does that mean? A straight lottery doesn't go against the court order. Ya'll are mad no matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the of converting TJ to 10th-12th and being able to serve 33% more students through the program on the face of it, but do wonder if there are strong arguments against this that aren’t on my radar. I’d consider any argument about needing to form community or the minor disruption of a student spending 1 year at base HS to be weak arguments, but there may be stronger ones I’m overlooking. Anyone have we’ll-reasoned arguments against this type of change?

1) You’d pretty much destroy every non-STEM extracurricular at the school - which are a significant part of the school’s culture

2) You’d eliminate a crucial adjustment year for kids to figure out how to navigate the rigor of TJ.

3) No more IBET, which, in addition to the design and tech class that introduces many students (however easily) to principles of engineering also gives them a core group of students to build networks around.

1 is false and 2 is weak (can think of equal counterarguments), 3 has some real validity though.

TJ already has a process in place for “froshmores” ie sophomore admits. It’s worked beautifully for several decades.

I support not seating the class of 2026 and expanding the sophomore and Junior application numbers.

If you read the judges order, he actually invalidates the entire new admissions system. Every single thing that the changed in the fall of 2020 (including the stupid POG essays!) are now illegal to use. Asra nd her friends are yelling that they need to use a test for the class for the class of 2026. Well, that is going to be expensive and will take time.

Just send the kids to their base schools for freshman year. To ensure that TJ doesn’t go to waste, put out the word to all of the high schools that they are expanding the sophomore and Junior classes. Start the process now if community engagement on how to reform TJ admissions going forward.

Simple. Legal. Uses resources wisely.

Someone’s kid didn’t get in in 2025 and smells a back door opportunity to get the treasured car magnet….

also, this parent above who advocates trashing the freshmen in support of more sophomores and juniors has no idea how difficult it is to integrate into TJ academics that late into the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Guess they will have to go to straight-up lottery. Too late in the game to fairly facilitate a new test.

Better Late Than Sorry.

Late just doesn't work. They will have to find another solution. Lottery. Skip a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the of converting TJ to 10th-12th and being able to serve 33% more students through the program on the face of it, but do wonder if there are strong arguments against this that aren’t on my radar. I’d consider any argument about needing to form community or the minor disruption of a student spending 1 year at base HS to be weak arguments, but there may be stronger ones I’m overlooking. Anyone have we’ll-reasoned arguments against this type of change?

1) You’d pretty much destroy every non-STEM extracurricular at the school - which are a significant part of the school’s culture

2) You’d eliminate a crucial adjustment year for kids to figure out how to navigate the rigor of TJ.

3) No more IBET, which, in addition to the design and tech class that introduces many students (however easily) to principles of engineering also gives them a core group of students to build networks around.

1 is false and 2 is weak (can think of equal counterarguments), 3 has some real validity though.

TJ already has a process in place for “froshmores” ie sophomore admits. It’s worked beautifully for several decades.

I support not seating the class of 2026 and expanding the sophomore and Junior application numbers.

If you read the judges order, he actually invalidates the entire new admissions system. Every single thing that the changed in the fall of 2020 (including the stupid POG essays!) are now illegal to use. Asra nd her friends are yelling that they need to use a test for the class for the class of 2026. Well, that is going to be expensive and will take time.

Just send the kids to their base schools for freshman year. To ensure that TJ doesn’t go to waste, put out the word to all of the high schools that they are expanding the sophomore and Junior classes. Start the process now if community engagement on how to reform TJ admissions going forward.

Simple. Legal. Uses resources wisely.

Someone’s kid didn’t get in in 2025 and smells a back door opportunity to get the treasured car magnet….

also, this parent above who advocates trashing the freshmen in support of more sophomores and juniors has no idea how difficult it is to integrate into TJ academics that late into the program.

Exactly. Froshmores have an extremely difficult time adjusting to the environment at TJ, and that's why the Admissions Office brings in so few of them year-over-year. The idea of bringing in 500 of them at once is just nutty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the of converting TJ to 10th-12th and being able to serve 33% more students through the program on the face of it, but do wonder if there are strong arguments against this that aren’t on my radar. I’d consider any argument about needing to form community or the minor disruption of a student spending 1 year at base HS to be weak arguments, but there may be stronger ones I’m overlooking. Anyone have we’ll-reasoned arguments against this type of change?

1) You’d pretty much destroy every non-STEM extracurricular at the school - which are a significant part of the school’s culture

2) You’d eliminate a crucial adjustment year for kids to figure out how to navigate the rigor of TJ.

3) No more IBET, which, in addition to the design and tech class that introduces many students (however easily) to principles of engineering also gives them a core group of students to build networks around.

+1000 For all of these reasons, plus there's a significant number of kids (my DS was among them) who are just more than ready to get to TJ. I feel so bad for the kids who are caught up in this mess, created by a group of people who never had the kids' best interests in mind. Asra knows this better than most TJ parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the of converting TJ to 10th-12th and being able to serve 33% more students through the program on the face of it, but do wonder if there are strong arguments against this that aren’t on my radar. I’d consider any argument about needing to form community or the minor disruption of a student spending 1 year at base HS to be weak arguments, but there may be stronger ones I’m overlooking. Anyone have we’ll-reasoned arguments against this type of change?

1) You’d pretty much destroy every non-STEM extracurricular at the school - which are a significant part of the school’s culture

2) You’d eliminate a crucial adjustment year for kids to figure out how to navigate the rigor of TJ.

3) No more IBET, which, in addition to the design and tech class that introduces many students (however easily) to principles of engineering also gives them a core group of students to build networks around.

+1000 For all of these reasons, plus there's a significant number of kids (my DS was among them) who are just more than ready to get to TJ. I feel so bad for the kids who are caught up in this mess, created by a group of people who never had the kids' best interests in mind. Asra knows this better than most TJ parents.

It's beyond disgusting that she is using so many students as pawns in her political games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Lottery it is then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

A straightforward reading of the Judge's order disagrees with you.

The direct quote is "Defendant Fairfax County School Board is enjoined from further use or enforcement of the Fall 2020 Admissions Plan for the Thomas Jefferson High School for Science & Technology".

Absent any clarification - which there is none as far as I know - this means that as long as any piece of the new plan , no matter how small or insignificant, differs from the enjoined plan, that would satisfy the technical requirement in Judge Hilton's order.

A new plan could, for example, adjust the rubric such that experience factors were only assigned a maximum of 44 points in the rubric instead of 45.

Does anyone have access to documentation that further clarifies the order, or is it possible that the phrasing that the Judge used was just sloppy and open to interpretation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Lottery it is then.

I would tend to agree. It would be the safest path for FCPS to simply use a lottery of the qualified, thus more or less ensuring a demographic distribution that mirrored the applicant pool.

I don't think that's the best solution, but in the event that a stay is not granted, I think it's the most likely outcome. Ironically, that would result in a final process that would be even LESS likely to fall in favor of the Plaintiffs, one of whom has already had two children admitted by both the old and the new process.

What you will absolutely NOT have - and what no further breath should be wasted on here - is a situation where no freshman class of 2026 is seated. That's not something that's within the realm of possibility.

[Anonymous]

No, they'll just use what they have without the proxy discrimination of the 1.5% and experience factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ntrainer wrote:You have to start with the premise that FCPS has to (gasp!) abide by the court ruling. That means they cannot use the 1.5% minimum -- which is a quota by any other name -- and they cannot use the "Experience Factors." Those were clearly the two elements of the process which were judged unconstitutional.

At this point, they have the applications already in. No need to use an admissions test. No need for teacher recommendations. Admit the kids based on their "fit" for the school. Right now the SB needs to just DO THEIR JOB and give some advisory information to the admissions office in a chaotic situation. It need not be perfect advisory language. But it needs to be legal, and it needs to allow the process to move forward.

If anyone reading this has a child who has applied to be a member of the TJ Class of 2026, please begin your advocacy right now for the School Board to come forward with a reasonable process. The judge has thrown out the current admissions plan and for them to have nothing clear to offer is malpractice. I think what I've said above is reasonable. In short: Throw out the 1.5% minimum per middle school, throw out the "Experience Factors," and then just tell the admissions office to admit the kids based on their evaluation of their existing applications, choosing those whose applications "fit" the mission of the school the best. That's it. The School Board can provide this kind of minimal guidance at this point and it would be enough.

This wouldn't require the Board to retreat on their positions about the admissions process in the short term, but it mops up the mess we have. Then they must start crafting a more complete process for next year's applicants. That process can be (and will be) a huge community discussion. But in the near term, please use your voice to advocate for just moving things along for the Class of 2026 in a reasonable way. They need to hear from us.

Read the judge’s order. It’s short and simple. What you suggest involves using pieces of the illegal admissions reform. They cannot use any part of the new system.

Lottery it is then.

I would tend to agree. It would be the safest path for FCPS to simply use a lottery of the qualified, thus more or less ensuring a demographic distribution that mirrored the applicant pool.

I don't think that's the best solution, but in the event that a stay is not granted, I think it's the most likely outcome. Ironically, that would result in a final process that would be even LESS likely to fall in favor of the Plaintiffs, one of whom has already had two children admitted by both the old and the new process.

What you will absolutely NOT have - and what no further breath should be wasted on here - is a situation where no freshman class of 2026 is seated. That's not something that's within the realm of possibility.

+1, agreed on all counts. I wonder what would happen if the public posture of FCPS were to announce that if the appeal is unsuccessful they will revert to a straight lottery among the remaining 2500 applicants of the 2940 who originally entered the process. There can be no doubt that HJ and YM would be putting their kids in a worse position by allowing the case to move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, they'll just use what they have without the proxy discrimination of the 1.5% and experience factors.

The geographic distribution was the best part of the new admissions plan. The experience factors should certainly be left out.