I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID

“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.

"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.

The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047

Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?

So you think that a man who was once third in line to the Presidency, just like Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan should be denied his right to vote because he's too old to have a driver's license as well as administrative BS. OK.

Truly the greatest country in the world. /s

He should have to follow the rules like anyone else. Are you suggesting the elites get special privileges over ordinary people?

Those rules are completely unnecessary. Texas had ONE occurrence of in person voter fraud in the dozen years before this stupid legislation was passed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID

“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.

"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.

The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047

Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?

I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.

I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.

Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.

Why do people need to make this so difficult? 1) Birth certificate or passport, 2) social security card or W2 and 3) two current bills or driver's license or mortgage/rent statement. You can order a birth certificate online if you don't have yours (it's not expensive or difficult), everyone should have #2 and #3. Why are people so flustered by this?

You haven’t read all the examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These examples of having trouble getting an ID are not compelling.

Yes, you have to have proper documentation and yes it can be a pain in the butt to get it straight. But when something is important enough to you, you will get it done.

I had a similar issue as one of the examples. My maiden name was swapped for my middle name on my drivers license. But my original name was on my passport. I could not pass the requirements to get an ID at my new place of work. No other place in the 20 years I’d been married cared. Not for global entry, not for previous employment that did background checks, nothing. But now I was not going to be issued this work ID, thus would not remain employed, if I could not get it fixed.

It took effort. But it was important enough to get it all straightened out.

Paperwork is a b$&ch but it’s also pretty fundamental to having a society that functions optimally.

Sorry, but +1

-2

Regardless of whether it's Real ID or not there is still a ton of bureaucracy involved.
The extreme bureaucracy and dysfunction of DMVs makes it highly likely that people will end up losing out on voting, for example even the time it takes to get an appointment with the DMV.

And still none of the pro-ID proponents have made any sort of compelling case whatsoever for why this is actually such a necessity. The number of proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely low, nowhere near enough to even influence election outcomes. And some of the laws are completely inconsistent. If a gun carry permit is allowed then why not a student ID? What gives a gun owner more right to easily vote than a college student?

One does not have to register to vote at a DMV. There are multiple options in order to register to vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These examples of having trouble getting an ID are not compelling.

Yes, you have to have proper documentation and yes it can be a pain in the butt to get it straight. But when something is important enough to you, you will get it done.

I had a similar issue as one of the examples. My maiden name was swapped for my middle name on my drivers license. But my original name was on my passport. I could not pass the requirements to get an ID at my new place of work. No other place in the 20 years I’d been married cared. Not for global entry, not for previous employment that did background checks, nothing. But now I was not going to be issued this work ID, thus would not remain employed, if I could not get it fixed.

It took effort. But it was important enough to get it all straightened out.

Paperwork is a b$&ch but it’s also pretty fundamental to having a society that functions optimally.

Sorry, but +1

-2

Regardless of whether it's Real ID or not there is still a ton of bureaucracy involved.
The extreme bureaucracy and dysfunction of DMVs makes it highly likely that people will end up losing out on voting, for example even the time it takes to get an appointment with the DMV.

And still none of the pro-ID proponents have made any sort of compelling case whatsoever for why this is actually such a necessity. The number of proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely low, nowhere near enough to even influence election outcomes. And some of the laws are completely inconsistent. If a gun carry permit is allowed then why not a student ID? What gives a gun owner more right to easily vote than a college student?

One does not have to register to vote at a DMV. There are multiple options in order to register to vote.

That totally did not answer the question.

And, with regard to DMVs, do you still not get it? They are making it such that the only acceptable forms of ID to allow you to vote must be obtained from the dysfunctional DMVs, many of which have had months-long waitlists for appointments to get ID.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Does he really believe that discrimination ended in Louisiana in 1964? If you don’t know, he is a Hoover Institute anti-affirmative action huckster.

[Anonymous]

Sinema and Manchin are both funded by the Koch brothers. While they are democrats and at least have Schumer as leader so we can get some stuff done, when it comes to the truly important legislation needed to save our republic, they are lapdogs to the same folks the GOP have been beholden to for decades.

And research the Koch's - they go back to Stalinist Russia in terms of their world view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that you’re coming at this from the perspective. You want people to prove to you that specific voting restrictions shouldn’t be allowed. Buying voting is a constitutional right. The burden should be on people who want the restrictions to prove that they are necessary to protect an important interest. If you want to outlaw drive up voting, what compelling interest is that serving?

Probably not intended.

I agree with PP though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID

“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.

"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.

The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047

Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?

I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.

I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.

Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.

Why do people need to make this so difficult? 1) Birth certificate or passport, 2) social security card or W2 and 3) two current bills or driver's license or mortgage/rent statement. You can order a birth certificate online if you don't have yours (it's not expensive or difficult), everyone should have #2 and #3. Why are people so flustered by this?

You haven’t read all the examples.

Acquaintance was staying with me while trying to get a CDL and was required to provide bills/rent statement. He had no bills associated with the property and there was no written rental agreement so I wrote a statement and signed it. It was rejected because it didn't look official enough. So I downloaded a lease template online and filled it out and it made them happy. It was hilarious because it had all these provisions that did not apply to an extended stay guest who did not have another residence. I've actually hosted a number of people through the years because of connections to people leaving DV situations and such. W2s can go astray when people move a lot, employers can go out of business or change the company who does their payroll and one can be left in the dark replacing a W2, it can take weeks to confirm an IRS account online (I was not able to, had to wait for something in the mail), wallets get lost or stolen.

No even talking about online access which is not a fact of life for all people. I know of rural areas where internet is extremely expensive.

Incidentally, it wasn't until 1987-88 that SS started issuing SS numbers at birth. I got mine when I was 15.

[Anonymous]

Acquaintance was staying with me while trying to get a CDL and was required to provide bills/rent statement. He had no bills associated with the property and there was no written rental agreement so I wrote a statement and signed it. It was rejected because it didn't look official enough. So I downloaded a lease template online and filled it out and it made them happy. It was hilarious because it had all these provisions that did not apply to an extended stay guest who did not have another residence. I've actually hosted a number of people through the years because of connections to people leaving DV situations and such. W2s can go astray when people move a lot, employers can go out of business or change the company who does their payroll and one can be left in the dark replacing a W2, it can take weeks to confirm an IRS account online (I was not able to, had to wait for something in the mail), wallets get lost or stolen.

No even talking about online access which is not a fact of life for all people. I know of rural areas where internet is extremely expensive.

Incidentally, it wasn't until 1987-88 that SS started issuing SS numbers at birth. I got mine when I was 15.

It is impossible to do almost anything without a SS card. Why did you get one when you were fifteen? Probably, because you needed it.

Those people who fall on hard times and domestic abuse are sad cases, but,even they are able to get ID. As for the tenant agreement, you just disproved your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID

“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.

"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.

The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047

Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?

I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.

I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.

Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.

Why do people need to make this so difficult? 1) Birth certificate or passport, 2) social security card or W2 and 3) two current bills or driver's license or mortgage/rent statement. You can order a birth certificate online if you don't have yours (it's not expensive or difficult), everyone should have #2 and #3. Why are people so flustered by this?

You haven’t read all the examples.

Acquaintance was staying with me while trying to get a CDL and was required to provide bills/rent statement. He had no bills associated with the property and there was no written rental agreement so I wrote a statement and signed it. It was rejected because it didn't look official enough. So I downloaded a lease template online and filled it out and it made them happy. It was hilarious because it had all these provisions that did not apply to an extended stay guest who did not have another residence. I've actually hosted a number of people through the years because of connections to people leaving DV situations and such. W2s can go astray when people move a lot, employers can go out of business or change the company who does their payroll and one can be left in the dark replacing a W2, it can take weeks to confirm an IRS account online (I was not able to, had to wait for something in the mail), wallets get lost or stolen.

No even talking about online access which is not a fact of life for all people. I know of rural areas where internet is extremely expensive.

Incidentally, it wasn't until 1987-88 that SS started issuing SS numbers at birth. I got mine when I was 15.

So you lied and provided fraudulent evidence of a "lease" to get ID?

[Anonymous]

I still haven't seen a compelling rationale for why the right wing needed to pass a slew of bills to make it harder to vote.

Still waiting...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling rationale for why the right wing needed to pass a slew of bills to make it harder to vote.

Still waiting...

Kicking poor minorities to keep them in their place is what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling rationale for why the right wing needed to pass a slew of bills to make it harder to vote.

Still waiting...

Most of them started right after the 2010 elections. Draw your own conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still haven't seen a compelling rationale for why the right wing needed to pass a slew of bills to make it harder to vote.

Still waiting...

I hate to break it to you, but has been posted multiple times in this thread. Passing laws that make it harder to vote helps Republicans electorally. I know it's not the answer you were looking for (I admire your persistence in getting a good-faith answer from a Republican, but your time is better spent teaching your dog to talk!), but it's God's honest truth.