Did MCPS do a sneaky thing for the magnet lotteries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re still holding the lottery this year though. Even w kids back in school.


Anyone think they’ll raise the bar to 90% from the 85?

There is no evidence to support this.

They already posted dates for the CogAT testing.

Last year they only did the lottery when they were unable to administer the CogAT.

MCPS sent out a letter on 9/30:
https://connectdocs.blackboard.com/broadcasts/Docs/caf1a3dfb505ffed0d024130f58c5cfa/36ad00e6-f1e8-4cdf-87c1-d993c7f5ea4d.pdf?ticket=t_VvtAf85J&xythos-download=true

No CogAT this year. Lottery again. Cutoff not announced.

This link is broken but I did see their announcement a few days ago that listed the days on which CogAT would be administered to various grades. This seems to contradict the information that may have been at your broken link.

DP. The link worked fine for me.

Dear Parents/Guardians of Grade 5 Students:
Montgomery County Public Schools offers various opportunities for rising Grade 6 students who
demonstrate the potential to be successful in enriched and accelerated programming. These
opportunities are in both the local middle schools and regional middle school magnet (interest and
criteria-based) programs. Local enriched opportunities include two enriched courses in humanities and
math along with additional high school credit courses offered in middle school. The regional magnet
programs include the Middle School Magnet Consortium (MSMC/interest-based) and regional magnet
(criteria-based) programs.
The MSMC includes Argyle MS for Digital Design and Development, A. Mario Loiederman MS for
Creative and Performing Arts and Parkland MS for Aerospace Technology. Interested parents may apply
to the programs in October 2021. The MSMC parent/student information session is available on the
MCPS website.
The (criteria-based) magnet programs include the Humanities and Communication program at Dr. Martin
Luther King, Jr. (upcounty) and Eastern (downcounty); and Math, Science and Computer Science at
Roberto Clemente (upcounty) and Takoma Park (downcounty). A student’s home address determines
which regional program (upcounty) or (downcounty) they would be considered.
For these programs, the admission plan will begin with the universal review of Grade 5 students by
utilizing student performance information about how students learn. Students whose data indicate that
their overall academic profile may demonstrate the potential to succeed in enriched and accelerated
instruction will be considered for a seat in either the Humanities and Communication and/or Math,
Science, Computer Science programs and/or local enriched programming without having to submit an
application.
Multiple criteria will continue to be used to identify students for enriched services and include 2020-2021
and 2021-2022 data such as report card grades, reading level, external assessments Measures of
Academic Progress-Reading (MAP-R) and Measures of Academic Progress-Math (MAP-M) and student
services (students who receive services in ESOL- English for Speakers of Other Languages, FARMS-
Free and Reduced Meals System, IEP- Individualized Education Plan or a 504 plan). The Cognitive
Abilities Assessment (CogAT) will not be administered this year.
The universal review process will occur in December 2021 by identifying the students who demonstrate
the potential to be successful in enriched services. These students will be placed into a lottery pool. All
students in the lottery pool are guaranteed enriched instruction either in the regional magnet or local
enriched courses. Students with missing data, such as students new to MCPS for the 2021-2022 school
year, private/home schooled students may be considered for placement into the candidate pool by an
expert review panel pending all required data is submitted. See below for more information. Once the
lottery pool has been identified, a lottery will be conducted for placement into a regional magnet program.

All other students in the lottery pool will be guaranteed placement in one or both of the humanities and
math enrichment courses. Students attending the Middle School Magnet Consortium Schools—Argyle,
Loiederman and Parkland will have access to the enriched courses at those middle schools.
For more information, parents/guardians are invited to attend a parent/guardian information presentation
regarding the program and admission process. This presentation will available on the MCPS website:
● Eastern and Takoma Park MS Presentation (Virtual), November 1, 2021, at 7 p.m. (English), 8
p.m. (Spanish)
● Roberto Clemente and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Presentation (Virtual), November 1, 2021, at
5 p.m. (English), 6 p.m. (Spanish)
For additional information:
● Visit the following website for more information about the programs and admission process:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/.
● Contact a team member at the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program
Services at [e-mail] or 240-740-2540. Please allow 24 hours for a response.
● Information for students with missing data such as students new to MCPS, private/home
schooled students is here.
Sincerely,
Niki T. Hazel
Associate Superintendent for
Curriculum and Instructional Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re still holding the lottery this year though. Even w kids back in school.


Anyone think they’ll raise the bar to 90% from the 85?

There is no evidence to support this.

They already posted dates for the CogAT testing.

Last year they only did the lottery when they were unable to administer the CogAT.

MCPS sent out a letter on 9/30:
https://connectdocs.blackboard.com/broadcasts/Docs/caf1a3dfb505ffed0d024130f58c5cfa/36ad00e6-f1e8-4cdf-87c1-d993c7f5ea4d.pdf?ticket=t_VvtAf85J&xythos-download=true

No CogAT this year. Lottery again. Cutoff not announced.

This link is broken but I did see their announcement a few days ago that listed the days on which CogAT would be administered to various grades. This seems to contradict the information that may have been at your broken link.

DP. The link worked fine for me.

Dear Parents/Guardians of Grade 5 Students:
Montgomery County Public Schools offers various opportunities for rising Grade 6 students who
demonstrate the potential to be successful in enriched and accelerated programming. These
opportunities are in both the local middle schools and regional middle school magnet (interest and
criteria-based) programs. Local enriched opportunities include two enriched courses in humanities and
math along with additional high school credit courses offered in middle school. The regional magnet
programs include the Middle School Magnet Consortium (MSMC/interest-based) and regional magnet
(criteria-based) programs.
The MSMC includes Argyle MS for Digital Design and Development, A. Mario Loiederman MS for
Creative and Performing Arts and Parkland MS for Aerospace Technology. Interested parents may apply
to the programs in October 2021. The MSMC parent/student information session is available on the
MCPS website.
The (criteria-based) magnet programs include the Humanities and Communication program at Dr. Martin
Luther King, Jr. (upcounty) and Eastern (downcounty); and Math, Science and Computer Science at
Roberto Clemente (upcounty) and Takoma Park (downcounty). A student’s home address determines
which regional program (upcounty) or (downcounty) they would be considered.
For these programs, the admission plan will begin with the universal review of Grade 5 students by
utilizing student performance information about how students learn. Students whose data indicate that
their overall academic profile may demonstrate the potential to succeed in enriched and accelerated
instruction will be considered for a seat in either the Humanities and Communication and/or Math,
Science, Computer Science programs and/or local enriched programming without having to submit an
application.
Multiple criteria will continue to be used to identify students for enriched services and include 2020-2021
and 2021-2022 data such as report card grades, reading level, external assessments Measures of
Academic Progress-Reading (MAP-R) and Measures of Academic Progress-Math (MAP-M) and student
services (students who receive services in ESOL- English for Speakers of Other Languages, FARMS-
Free and Reduced Meals System, IEP- Individualized Education Plan or a 504 plan). The Cognitive
Abilities Assessment (CogAT) will not be administered this year.
The universal review process will occur in December 2021 by identifying the students who demonstrate
the potential to be successful in enriched services. These students will be placed into a lottery pool. All
students in the lottery pool are guaranteed enriched instruction either in the regional magnet or local
enriched courses. Students with missing data, such as students new to MCPS for the 2021-2022 school
year, private/home schooled students may be considered for placement into the candidate pool by an
expert review panel pending all required data is submitted. See below for more information. Once the
lottery pool has been identified, a lottery will be conducted for placement into a regional magnet program.

All other students in the lottery pool will be guaranteed placement in one or both of the humanities and
math enrichment courses. Students attending the Middle School Magnet Consortium Schools—Argyle,
Loiederman and Parkland will have access to the enriched courses at those middle schools.
For more information, parents/guardians are invited to attend a parent/guardian information presentation
regarding the program and admission process. This presentation will available on the MCPS website:
● Eastern and Takoma Park MS Presentation (Virtual), November 1, 2021, at 7 p.m. (English), 8
p.m. (Spanish)
● Roberto Clemente and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Presentation (Virtual), November 1, 2021, at
5 p.m. (English), 6 p.m. (Spanish)
For additional information:
● Visit the following website for more information about the programs and admission process:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/specialprograms/middle/.
● Contact a team member at the Division of Consortia Choice and Application Program
Services at [e-mail] or 240-740-2540. Please allow 24 hours for a response.
● Information for students with missing data such as students new to MCPS, private/home
schooled students is here.
Sincerely,
Niki T. Hazel
Associate Superintendent for
Curriculum and Instructional Programs

Entire letter. Pasted here for those who couldn't access the link.

[Anonymous]

MCPS letter link cleaned up:

https://connectdocs.blackboard.com/broadcasts/Docs/caf1a3dfb505ffed0d024130f58c5cfa/36ad00e6-f1e8-4cdf-87c1-d993c7f5ea4d.pdf

[Anonymous]

The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

[Anonymous]

Stop BS the pandemic thing, if they wanted to favor the other minority, they could have done so. This is all agenda based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

Not all kids are back in school buildings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

Not all kids are back in school buildings.

They can be invited to school just to take the test. Like some of the southern schools do with their benchmarking exams.

[Anonymous]

Since MCPS is so gung ho on lotteries to determine which children receive resources (which is called "oppression" btw), I think all MCPS Superintendent and Central Office staff should receive salaries on a "lottery" basis as well.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

I think it is considered most harmful in elementary. By middle school, and when paired with real efforts to identify talented kids who might otherwise not be receiving acceleration, it makes more sense. MCPS actually does a pretty good job of pushing opportunities for talented kids in low-income schools, to be honest. Saturday School programs for "gifted" kids in Focus and Title I schools, ELO programs offer the summer, math and science camps only availalbe to FARMS-eligible kids. I agree with all of those, and think they are great, but the trade-off is that by 6th grade, MCPS needs to stop creating heterogenous classrooms that include both kids who can hardly read in English with kids capable of doing magnet-level work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

I think it is considered most harmful in elementary. By middle school, and when paired with real efforts to identify talented kids who might otherwise not be receiving acceleration, it makes more sense. MCPS actually does a pretty good job of pushing opportunities for talented kids in low-income schools, to be honest. Saturday School programs for "gifted" kids in Focus and Title I schools, ELO programs offer the summer, math and science camps only availalbe to FARMS-eligible kids. I agree with all of those, and think they are great, but the trade-off is that by 6th grade, MCPS needs to stop creating heterogenous classrooms that include both kids who can hardly read in English with kids capable of doing magnet-level work.

Well, it sounds like they believe that the top 15% CAN do magnet-level work. This is roughly 15% of 12K, but currently, there are 400 total MS magnet spots per grade. So either it will remain a crap shoot like now or they will need to expand this programming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

So you're advocating for tracking? Isn't that considered harmful?

I think it is considered most harmful in elementary. By middle school, and when paired with real efforts to identify talented kids who might otherwise not be receiving acceleration, it makes more sense. MCPS actually does a pretty good job of pushing opportunities for talented kids in low-income schools, to be honest. Saturday School programs for "gifted" kids in Focus and Title I schools, ELO programs offer the summer, math and science camps only availalbe to FARMS-eligible kids. I agree with all of those, and think they are great, but the trade-off is that by 6th grade, MCPS needs to stop creating heterogenous classrooms that include both kids who can hardly read in English with kids capable of doing magnet-level work.

I'm really bothered by the racist undertones in many of the posts.
Being an English language learner has no bearing on your intelligence. There are kids who have limited English skills who are perfectly capable of doing magnet level work. There are actually several at Takoma this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are back in school, what’s the reason they can’t administer CogAT now?

I guess they finally realized it's easily gamed by those who prep so they decided it was doing more harm than good.

I wish we could move beyond the same back-and-forth arguments here.

Yes, some kids "prep." Other kids do not. Some kids don't prep in the sense of memorizing test strategies (and questions!), but are in such highly enriched environments that there's not much school can offer them above what their parents are already paying for in the private sector.

Some kids are already attending schools with a robust high achieving cohort. Others are outliers within their entire schools.

These are real challenges, and a lottery is not really the way to deal with any of them. It won't differentiate the extremely gifted kids from the merely highly enriched, nor will it necessarily pick up the kid who is an outlier and would not otherwise have a peer group.

The real challenge that I see, though, is that MCPS seems committed to not providing real acceleration/enrichment in home schools. If they would just agree to offer enriched classes starting in middle school, and to cohorting the kids who would otherwise have been eligible to attend the MS magnets, so much of this furor would subside.

Maybe that's the upside of the lottery? It might actually increase parental pressure on MCPS to do what they said they would do and offer cohorted enriched and accelerated classes to "gifted/advanced" kids in their home schools.

They have actually gradually started some of this, offering "advanced" courses in some middle schools. The problem is that in many of these schools they have identified almost 100% of the student body eligible for these "advanced" classes, so there is no cohort and its meaningless.

You are correct that MCPS is not committed to providing enriched instruction, but it is not just in home schools. Their actual goal is to have fully mixed ability classrooms. Those types of classrooms probably best serve the middle third of students, but not the top or bottom third and that is why you see the most complaints from parents at both ends.