Teaching in the U.S. vs. the rest of the world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

I agree, and I was a teacher. A lot of teachers are just plain ignorant. A LOT. Education classes are a joke. And if a teacher is intelligent and well-educated, she will probably not last long in the public school system, being treated like a child by administrators and told exactly what to say and do every second of every day, never allowed to actually use any of that education or intelligence.

Yes! Ed school Classes were terrible. My history prof focused on a curriculum that FCPS never bought and we were not allowed to use. No independent behavior management classes. I had to hustle that summer after my first year to squeeze in as much continuing Ed as possible, but I had friends who needed to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

You don’t think children should have the same rights as an adult? WTF?! Children are just as human as adults and deserve the same rights and respect. I really hope you no longer work in education.

I answered the topic of the thread. Teachers in other countries benefit from cultures of filial piety, high power distance, confuscism
, and strong family traditions. All of these reinforce traditional respect in the classroom even if a student doesn’t like the teacher or material.

Here is the U.S. teachers are expected to entertain and/or engage students to “earn” respect. This not easy to do because certain topics/ content and individual teacher and student personalities never align perfectly. If a disruptive student is having a bad day and is able to pull a couple of peers off task a lesson can go downhill pretty quickly through no fault of the teacher. Teachers end up teaching the same content three times to counter a lot of this. So, we never up reaching the higher level creative thinking and engagement. The end result is that student “ lose respect” for the teacher and think class is not fun. Again, not the teacher’s fault. Although after a long time it can lead to teachers giving up on being engaging.

[Anonymous]

Education is an aspect of culture. I don't believe we will find that another country's education system is more suitable for implementation in the US just because that country's students score higher on a standardized test.

I don't know to what extent the performance of students in other schools track SES, but this is a pronounced effect here in the US, even for close-by neighborhoods separated by a street. Parental involvement significantly sway the performance of students to a very significant degree. I wonder if there is also such a wide gap in countries like those referenced in the Vox video.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

You don’t think children should have the same rights as an adult? WTF?! Children are just as human as adults and deserve the same rights and respect. I really hope you no longer work in education.

I answered the topic of the thread. Teachers in other countries benefit from cultures of filial piety, high power distance, confuscism
, and strong family traditions. All of these reinforce traditional respect in the classroom even if a student doesn’t like the teacher or material.

Here is the U.S. teachers are expected to entertain and/or engage students to “earn” respect. This not easy to do because certain topics/ content and individual teacher and student personalities never align perfectly. If a disruptive student is having a bad day and is able to pull a couple of peers off task a lesson can go downhill pretty quickly through no fault of the teacher. Teachers end up teaching the same content three times to counter a lot of this. So, we never up reaching the higher level creative thinking and engagement. The end result is that student “ lose respect” for the teacher and think class is not fun. Again, not the teacher’s fault. Although after a long time it can lead to teachers giving up on being engaging.

great points

[Anonymous]

In the US parents have a bigger say in what is happening inside schools.

In Europe the schools have greater authority and often ignore the parents who aren't expected to interfere as much as they do here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the US parents have a bigger say in what is happening inside schools.

In Europe the schools have greater authority and often ignore the parents who aren't expected to interfere as much as they do here.

Helicopter parents can be annoying, but the bigger problem is the opposite. There are parents out there that take no responsibility for the education of their children. Some kids don’t show up for half the school year and nothing happens because the parents don’t do anything and the school is powerless.

[Anonymous]

PP- Teacher here and I suspect the rampant absenteeism will be a huge problem next year when students are expected to show up to school every day. So many of them took advantage of the lax rules last year. The attendance committee at our school worked their tails off last year trying to contact the parents whose kids just did nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP- Teacher here and I suspect the rampant absenteeism will be a huge problem next year when students are expected to show up to school every day. So many of them took advantage of the lax rules last year. The attendance committee at our school worked their tails off last year trying to contact the parents whose kids just did nothing.

Yes. This happened at our school way before Covid. The truancy officer basically threw up his hands and said there was nothing he could do. It’s almost impossible to retain students who fail and you can’t track families down and force them to send their kids to school.

[Anonymous]

Attendance doesn't really matter in high school anymore. The kids can't fail due to attendance/lateness/playing hooky unless parents give permission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Attendance doesn't really matter in high school anymore. The kids can't fail due to attendance/lateness/playing hooky unless parents give permission.

But they can not earn enough credits to graduate. Did you read about the Baltimore high school student who was in 12th grade but had only passed 3 classes? Eventually kids like that drop out on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

I agree, and I was a teacher. A lot of teachers are just plain ignorant. A LOT. Education classes are a joke. And if a teacher is intelligent and well-educated, she will probably not last long in the public school system, being treated like a child by administrators and told exactly what to say and do every second of every day, never allowed to actually use any of that education or intelligence.

Yes! Ed school Classes were terrible. My history prof focused on a curriculum that FCPS never bought and we were not allowed to use. No independent behavior management classes. I had to hustle that summer after my first year to squeeze in as much continuing Ed as possible, but I had friends who needed to work.

Not everyone is this way. I earned a masters in my subject area 5 years before I considered public school teaching. I’ve never taken a single undergrad ed course. I took 10 grad level courses for the certification process, but I was never under the impression that those would actually prepare me for classroom teaching. Undergrad ed majors were high school students less than 5 years ago. They know what public school is like and what was boring, effective, confusing, or helpful. They should speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

Teachers where I live only work around 180 days a year and get great benefits and can retire with an amazing pension. The compensation seems in line with the market given the amount of time worked and quality of the benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

lol, teaching to the test is the entire point of the educational system in counties where high school and university admission is decided solely by the test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

I agree, and I was a teacher. A lot of teachers are just plain ignorant. A LOT. Education classes are a joke. And if a teacher is intelligent and well-educated, she will probably not last long in the public school system, being treated like a child by administrators and told exactly what to say and do every second of every day, never allowed to actually use any of that education or intelligence.

Yes! Ed school Classes were terrible. My history prof focused on a curriculum that FCPS never bought and we were not allowed to use. No independent behavior management classes. I had to hustle that summer after my first year to squeeze in as much continuing Ed as possible, but I had friends who needed to work.

Not everyone is this way. I earned a masters in my subject area 5 years before I considered public school teaching. I’ve never taken a single undergrad ed course. I took 10 grad level courses for the certification process, but I was never under the impression that those would actually prepare me for classroom teaching. Undergrad ed majors were high school students less than 5 years ago. They know what public school is like and what was boring, effective, confusing, or helpful. They should speak up.

This is actually true of most Virginia public school teachers--they major in a content area and then get their master's degree in education. Only recently have there even been undergraduate education programs being started--as a route to address the teacher shortage before the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

Teachers where I live only work around 180 days a year and get great benefits and can retire with an amazing pension. The compensation seems in line with the market given the amount of time worked and quality of the benefits.

Are you sure about that?

If teachers only work 180 days, does that mean school is in session less than 180 days? Otherwise, teachers either are 1) never planning, grading, meeting with colleagues or parents outside of class (unlikely) or they are doing these things unpaid (much more likely). But in all probability, teachers are actually working between 185 and 190 days on the clock and probably another 30-45 days off the clock.