Teaching in the U.S. vs. the rest of the world

[Anonymous]

It's not pay. I was a teacher and I left for a lower-paying job. It was lack of autonomy, lack of respect (from administrators), and a job that ultimately didn't even allow me to do anything that resembled actual teaching and often forced me to do things that were contrary to the interests of my students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the administration who send teachers to mostly BS training/PDs during the school year. My district won't approve time off before or after a holiday so no 3 day weekends for us. I work in a Title 1 school and I occasionally take mental health days in addition to actual sick days. I'm sure my friends who aren't teachers do too. Nobody thinks it is their business to comment about their time off.

Well, teachers in the US may be absent more than in other countries, according to at least one study, and they are absent more than college educated workers in other industries. There may be valid reasons, but teacher absenteeism is a documented systemic problem that should be examined and addressed.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/01/27/we-should-be-focusing-on-absenteeism-among-teachers-not-just-students/

https://fee.org/articles/whats-behind-the-epidemic-of-chronic-teacher-absenteeism/

Love how someone always manages to take a huge systemic problem and find a way to blame it on lazy teachers.

Teacher absenteeism has zero to do with the problems in the American educational system. Even if every teacher were present every day, it would not improve the ranking of the US compared to other systems one single bit, because the problem is how and what teachers are expected to (forced to) teach and how the institution is structured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in three countries (Japan, USA, and Cameroon, Africa in the Peace Corps). We have “low power distance” culture in the U.S. children are taught that they should have the same rights as adults. Look at movies here. Parents and teachers are usually treated as bumbling idiots while the kids are in charge. Students are taught to disrespect authority and education in general. Our social structure has also destroyed upward mobility for most kids, so it is hard to argue that education guarantees success in life unless you have the means to pay for college.

You don’t think children should have the same rights as an adult? WTF?! Children are just as human as adults and deserve the same rights and respect. I really hope you no longer work in education.

I answered the topic of the thread. Teachers in other countries benefit from cultures of filial piety, high power distance, confuscism
, and strong family traditions. All of these reinforce traditional respect in the classroom even if a student doesn’t like the teacher or material.

Here is the U.S. teachers are expected to entertain and/or engage students to “earn” respect. This not easy to do because certain topics/ content and individual teacher and student personalities never align perfectly. If a disruptive student is having a bad day and is able to pull a couple of peers off task a lesson can go downhill pretty quickly through no fault of the teacher. Teachers end up teaching the same content three times to counter a lot of this. So, we never up reaching the higher level creative thinking and engagement. The end result is that student “ lose respect” for the teacher and think class is not fun. Again, not the teacher’s fault. Although after a long time it can lead to teachers giving up on being engaging.

This PP seems to be confusing all countries with a couple of Asian countries. I don't think Norway, Finland, or New Zealand have a history of confuscism. And yet they are way better than the US in education. Having been a public school teacher and also worked overseas and with foreign students in the USA, I can promise you that the poor ranking of our educational system is not due to lack of respect among students, although that is what many ignorant teachers and parents will say. It is due to curriculum design, management structure, school day structure, behavior management, government interference, and lack of respect for teachers by other adults. In other words, everything about our schools is pretty much the opposite of what makes for good education. Except for the students - good education does not require good students, or it isn't good education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

I’m a teacher and this is the problem.

Yep. Just left my previous position since I didn’t feel the school had adequate safety protocols for certain student populations. Basically safety and security would come to handle certain students anymore after a security guard got fired.

[Anonymous]

Edit: Safety and security wouldnt come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the administration who send teachers to mostly BS training/PDs during the school year. My district won't approve time off before or after a holiday so no 3 day weekends for us. I work in a Title 1 school and I occasionally take mental health days in addition to actual sick days. I'm sure my friends who aren't teachers do too. Nobody thinks it is their business to comment about their time off.

Well, teachers in the US may be absent more than in other countries, according to at least one study, and they are absent more than college educated workers in other industries. There may be valid reasons, but teacher absenteeism is a documented systemic problem that should be examined and addressed.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2020/01/27/we-should-be-focusing-on-absenteeism-among-teachers-not-just-students/

https://fee.org/articles/whats-behind-the-epidemic-of-chronic-teacher-absenteeism/

Love how someone always manages to take a huge systemic problem and find a way to blame it on lazy teachers.

Teacher absenteeism has zero to do with the problems in the American educational system. Even if every teacher were present every day, it would not improve the ranking of the US compared to other systems one single bit, because the problem is how and what teachers are expected to (forced to) teach and how the institution is structured.

I posted about teacher absenteeism and don't necessarily attribute excessive absences to laziness. Some are. However, absenteeism can be a function of a toxic work environment caused by the problems you identify. Treat teacher absenteeism as a concern and look at the reasons for absences in order to improve conditions. It's no secret that miserable people tend not to excel at their jobs - that is true in every profession.

[Anonymous]

My take after a failed MCPS experience. It's the lack of direct instruction or frankly any focus on evidence based curricula, particularly K-5 -- the most important years. (Curriculum 2.0 is prime example) Lord knows the County spends enough money on their teachers (2.8 billion and 90% goes to salaries, healthcare, and pensions) I think this article from Australia is indicative that we are not the only system to miss this.

https://www.cis.org.au/app/uploads/2021/07/op182.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP- Teacher here and I suspect the rampant absenteeism will be a huge problem next year when students are expected to show up to school every day. So many of them took advantage of the lax rules last year. The attendance committee at our school worked their tails off last year trying to contact the parents whose kids just did nothing.

Yes. This happened at our school way before Covid. The truancy officer basically threw up his hands and said there was nothing he could do. It’s almost impossible to retain students who fail and you can’t track families down and force them to send their kids to school.

Why is this?

Homeschoolers doing a great job of raising their kids live in constant fear of not doing "enough" to show enough good work or progress at the end of the year, terrified of a trip from CPS. Even though studies show that homeschoolers outperform traditionally schooled children in tests across the board.

I wonder why homeschoolers bother jumping through these hoops at all, when apparently the states don't care if kids aren't learning or even attending school. Why aren't those people getting visits from CPS and getting their kids taken away?

Such a double standard.

Cite for this? That sounds anecdotal. And not my experience.

In my experience a lot of the home school students are basically the equivalent of high school drop outs. There a few very popular scammy websites promoting very simple workbooks to complete and get a high school diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP- Teacher here and I suspect the rampant absenteeism will be a huge problem next year when students are expected to show up to school every day. So many of them took advantage of the lax rules last year. The attendance committee at our school worked their tails off last year trying to contact the parents whose kids just did nothing.

Yes. This happened at our school way before Covid. The truancy officer basically threw up his hands and said there was nothing he could do. It’s almost impossible to retain students who fail and you can’t track families down and force them to send their kids to school.

Why is this?

Homeschoolers doing a great job of raising their kids live in constant fear of not doing "enough" to show enough good work or progress at the end of the year, terrified of a trip from CPS. Even though studies show that homeschoolers outperform traditionally schooled children in tests across the board.

I wonder why homeschoolers bother jumping through these hoops at all, when apparently the states don't care if kids aren't learning or even attending school. Why aren't those people getting visits from CPS and getting their kids taken away?

Such a double standard.

Cite for this? That sounds anecdotal. And not my experience.

“Research suggests homeschooled children tend to do better on standardized tests, stick around longer in college, and do better once they're enrolled. A 2009 study showed that the proportion of homeschoolers who graduated from college was about 67%, while among public school students it was 59%.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/reasons-homeschooling-is-the-smartest-way-to-teach-kids-today-2018-1%3famp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP- Teacher here and I suspect the rampant absenteeism will be a huge problem next year when students are expected to show up to school every day. So many of them took advantage of the lax rules last year. The attendance committee at our school worked their tails off last year trying to contact the parents whose kids just did nothing.

Yes. This happened at our school way before Covid. The truancy officer basically threw up his hands and said there was nothing he could do. It’s almost impossible to retain students who fail and you can’t track families down and force them to send their kids to school.

Why is this?

Homeschoolers doing a great job of raising their kids live in constant fear of not doing "enough" to show enough good work or progress at the end of the year, terrified of a trip from CPS. Even though studies show that homeschoolers outperform traditionally schooled children in tests across the board.

I wonder why homeschoolers bother jumping through these hoops at all, when apparently the states don't care if kids aren't learning or even attending school. Why aren't those people getting visits from CPS and getting their kids taken away?

Such a double standard.

Cite for this? That sounds anecdotal. And not my experience.

“Research suggests homeschooled children tend to do better on standardized tests, stick around longer in college, and do better once they're enrolled. A 2009 study showed that the proportion of homeschoolers who graduated from college was about 67%, while among public school students it was 59%.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/reasons-homeschooling-is-the-smartest-way-to-teach-kids-today-2018-1%3famp

DP: Research on homeschooling DOES generally find positive outcomes BUT the research is really self-selecting--the people who participate in research do not represent the full body of homeschoolers. Also, there are few controls in the study for the effects of income, parental education etc. that are known to impact educational outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elementary education in US is fine. It's the middle and high school education that cannot compete with many other countries.
School does start a little too early here, but it's because the US doesn't have free daycare for all. This early learning cuts into play time, which is learning for young children.
Middle and high school classes are taught by chemists, historians and linguists in the old country. It makes a big difference.

Actually the problems in elementary education bleed into middle and high school education. Kids aren't taught to read properly. They don't have good background knowledge for science and social studies. Elementary math teachers (in general) are not good mathematicians. One thing the video doesn't say is that Finish teachers are generally top of their class in college. US teachers are generally not. Highly educated college students go into teaching in Finland. Highly educated college students in the US go into tech or finance.

Hence - more respect and financial compensation in Finland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

I’m a teacher and this is the problem.

Yep. Just left my previous position since I didn’t feel the school had adequate safety protocols for certain student populations. Basically safety and security would come to handle certain students anymore after a security guard got fired.

+1

the kids know there are zero consequences for any actions. Late to school everyday? Push a teacher? Curse at a teacher? Fail every test? Do no homework? Learn no content? No consequences, you’ll be given a ‘packet of makeup work’ and a C. This is why no one wants to hire DCPS high school graduates. They don’t even learn how to show up on time or interact appropriately with other adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's the pay. I think it's that teachers have no autonomy, have to teach to the test and can't kick disruptive students out of their classrooms.

I’m a teacher and this is the problem.

Yep. Just left my previous position since I didn’t feel the school had adequate safety protocols for certain student populations. Basically safety and security would come to handle certain students anymore after a security guard got fired.

+1

the kids know there are zero consequences for any actions. Late to school everyday? Push a teacher? Curse at a teacher? Fail every test? Do no homework? Learn no content? No consequences, you’ll be given a ‘packet of makeup work’ and a C. This is why no one wants to hire DCPS high school graduates. They don’t even learn how to show up on time or interact appropriately with other adults.

Cite an actual source.