Obsession of Italians to keep "Italian" food authentic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t get me started on Indian “curry”.

Indian Curry is British, Chinese food is America, and so is most of what we consider to be Italian. There's nothing inherently wrong with taking a culture taking a cuisine as a starting point and making it their own. Some of the best fine dining in America right now has a lot of Asian dishes made using French techniques by Salvadorian immigrants

[Anonymous]

Pineapple pizza reaction:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, the worst immigrated from England here? Sure, if we are talking about indentures servants, but the rest had money, no?
The rest were pretty well off, isn't that why we had Lord Baltimore?

there were a few, but most were poor, uneducate, illiterate, low skilled people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t get me started on Indian “curry”.

Indian Curry is British, Chinese food is America, and so is most of what we consider to be Italian. There's nothing inherently wrong with taking a culture taking a cuisine as a starting point and making it their own. Some of the best fine dining in America right now has a lot of Asian dishes made using French techniques by Salvadorian immigrants

my mouth is watering

Cajun/Asian is one of my favorites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read the comments on every single Tasty video ever and you will see millions of “That’s not authentic!” for every type of cuisine. This is certainly not specific to Italians. Everyone thinks their way is the only way. I think it’s sad as hell that people can’t even try other versions. Things change over time and distance. Doesn’t make it bad.

FWIW, I’m 2nd gen Italian American and love me some bastardized Italian American food.

I agree. Second-Gen Polish American. It is so silly. I found some 100 year old stuffed cabbage recipes that were nothing like what people call authentic today. Any recipe with tomatoes ... ha! They were expensive and not readily available in plenty of parts of Europe even in my grandmother’s childhood. Not sure when tomato based sauces became a staple of southern Italian fare, but I imagine it was probably less than 400-500 years ago when they were exported from the Americas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm French.

You wouldn't believe, OP, how important French-origin food and dishes are to French culture. Every day on the news, there is a dedicated food segment about authentic regional food, how lovingly it's produced using centuries old recipes or methods, how it's labeled and marketed so that consumers can distinguish it from fakes from God Knows Where (like lowly Italy or Spain, the horror!!!!!!!), how it's produced lovingly, how Chinese and/or Arab or American clients are interested, etc.

I mean, my father and his colleagues had two hour lunches where they talked about nothing but food, back in the day. My private high school had red and white wine in little individual carafes for the teachers at lunch time.

We are a food obsessed nation, but differently obsessed than the USA.

Preservation of traditional dishes is important. But so is the American tendency for fusion and change.

PP you replied to. Of course, we do it all the time. Just don't sell it as authentic, is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Chinese feel this way, but American Chinese don't tend to like to stand out and make waves as much. So they keep it within the community. American Chinese all value where the most authentic food is and talk disparagingly about "Americanized" Chinese food. But they do it in Chinese to other Chinese, infrequently to non-Chinese.

In Korea, they’ve “Koreanized” Chinese food too (and for that matter all other nation’s food) to make it more in tune with the Korean palate... It’s delicious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most cultures would be annoyed if you vulgarize their dishes, and particularly if you mistreat the ingredients, though I agree that the Italians are prouder than most.

If, for example, you put coke in a single malt, or mustard with jamon bellota, or curry inside a pierogi, the natives of these countries would have something to say. And ask Chinese-born people what they make of Chinese-American cuisine.

Sure. But, wasn't it Italian immigrants that were doing all these thing once they left? Here, in Argentina, etc...

As with England, it wasn't the best people who left. It was mostly the poor, the uneducated, and the criminal.

Omg. Right, most were criminals. Good Lord. Educate yourself, so that you don't continue to conflate poor and uneducated with mafioso. You in fact sound quite uneducated. Immigrants were often from rural, poorer areas of Italy, yes. As were many Immigrants from other countries. No, most Italians do not have criminal ties and I cannot believe I have to say this in 2021.

+1 Yes, PP is sounding so ignorant. Almost all of the Italian immigrants arriving in the late 1800's/early 1900's were dirt poor people. Their children and grandchildren became doctors, lawyers, professionals, thanks to the labors of their parents who immigrated for a better life.

[Anonymous]

'authentic' food is such f*$&_ing horseshit.

Can't stand authenticity snobbish aholes. Many dishes invented in the new world were a matter of survival for newly arrived immigrants from italy, china, etc. etc. They had to invent new dishes with ingredients that were available, and to fit the palate of a local market. There is nothing more authentic than people inventing a new take on their cuisine as a means for survival.

American italian and chinese dishes can be delicious as well if they're made well. They can just be considered another type of regional cuisine.

Screw 'authenticity'. I'll can enjoy chicken parm as much as I like food when I go to italy. Or I like general tso's chicken as much as I like food when I go to Shenzhen. The authentic snobs love to shit all over the sacrifice and history that went into making new world dishes for survival.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most cultures would be annoyed if you vulgarize their dishes, and particularly if you mistreat the ingredients, though I agree that the Italians are prouder than most.

If, for example, you put coke in a single malt, or mustard with jamon bellota, or curry inside a pierogi, the natives of these countries would have something to say. And ask Chinese-born people what they make of Chinese-American cuisine.

Sure. But, wasn't it Italian immigrants that were doing all these thing once they left? Here, in Argentina, etc...

Immigrants from everywhere adapted their food to the ingredients that were available in the country they moved to. Italian-American is really a different cuisine, even if there is a lot of overlap with Southern Italian cooking. And people from other countries are the same way. Many are very proud of their food and cooking traditions. I mean, ask a Texan about barbeque or chili, or a Cajun about jambalaya.

Personally, I think fusion is great, but I also see why calling something "carbonara" that's made with peas (looking at you, NYT) would irritate people. Experiment, make something new, fine. But words and names have meaning, and pasta with cheese and peas might be great, but it's not carbonara.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most cultures would be annoyed if you vulgarize their dishes, and particularly if you mistreat the ingredients, though I agree that the Italians are prouder than most.

If, for example, you put coke in a single malt, or mustard with jamon bellota, or curry inside a pierogi, the natives of these countries would have something to say. And ask Chinese-born people what they make of Chinese-American cuisine.

Sure. But, wasn't it Italian immigrants that were doing all these thing once they left? Here, in Argentina, etc...

Immigrants from everywhere adapted their food to the ingredients that were available in the country they moved to. Italian-American is really a different cuisine, even if there is a lot of overlap with Southern Italian cooking. And people from other countries are the same way. Many are very proud of their food and cooking traditions. I mean, ask a Texan about barbeque or chili, or a Cajun about jambalaya.

Personally, I think fusion is great, but I also see why calling something "carbonara" that's made with peas (looking at you, NYT) would irritate people. Experiment, make something new, fine. But words and names have meaning, and pasta with cheese and peas might be great, but it's not carbonara.

Thanks for replying! There is also a super funny fake "Chinese uncle Roger" on YouTube. He rips Brits making fried rice. He is a comedian though, a famous one now. So do not take it seriously!

[Anonymous]

I'm French and we want food to remain as authentic as possible.

When you see that Americans think peanut butter is healthy, you have understood how you got it all wrong - sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm French and we want food to remain as authentic as possible.

When you see that Americans think peanut butter is healthy, you have understood how you got it all wrong - sadly.

Oh come on. I am from former Yugoslavia and we sure loved Nutella, and our version of it when I was growing up. Ok, we did not eat it on bread but in crepes. I recall eating it with a spoon.
And today there are brands that are powders with fewer calories and sugar free peanut butter.
I also ate strawberries with sugar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most cultures would be annoyed if you vulgarize their dishes, and particularly if you mistreat the ingredients, though I agree that the Italians are prouder than most.

If, for example, you put coke in a single malt, or mustard with jamon bellota, or curry inside a pierogi, the natives of these countries would have something to say. And ask Chinese-born people what they make of Chinese-American cuisine.

Sure. But, wasn't it Italian immigrants that were doing all these thing once they left? Here, in Argentina, etc...

Immigrants from everywhere adapted their food to the ingredients that were available in the country they moved to. Italian-American is really a different cuisine, even if there is a lot of overlap with Southern Italian cooking. And people from other countries are the same way. Many are very proud of their food and cooking traditions. I mean, ask a Texan about barbeque or chili, or a Cajun about jambalaya.

Personally, I think fusion is great, but I also see why calling something "carbonara" that's made with peas (looking at you, NYT) would irritate people. Experiment, make something new, fine. But words and names have meaning, and pasta with cheese and peas might be great, but it's not carbonara.

Thanks for replying! There is also a super funny fake "Chinese uncle Roger" on YouTube. He rips Brits making fried rice. He is a comedian though, a famous one now. So do not take it seriously!

I know it was just for yolks, but to be fair, Hersha Patel's original fried rice video was pretty horrifically bad. I'm sure that Uncle Roger was not the only Asian person that was in pain watching her cook that rice.

The best part was that she was a good sport about it and for her redemption she invited the comedian to her house and cooked him a new batch of fried rice where she did a decent job (he gave her a 6/10). And they were best buds. And they even did other video collaborations (there's a two-parter of them touring Chinatown together),

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most cultures would be annoyed if you vulgarize their dishes, and particularly if you mistreat the ingredients, though I agree that the Italians are prouder than most.

If, for example, you put coke in a single malt, or mustard with jamon bellota, or curry inside a pierogi, the natives of these countries would have something to say. And ask Chinese-born people what they make of Chinese-American cuisine.

Sure. But, wasn't it Italian immigrants that were doing all these thing once they left? Here, in Argentina, etc...

Immigrants from everywhere adapted their food to the ingredients that were available in the country they moved to. Italian-American is really a different cuisine, even if there is a lot of overlap with Southern Italian cooking. And people from other countries are the same way. Many are very proud of their food and cooking traditions. I mean, ask a Texan about barbeque or chili, or a Cajun about jambalaya.

Personally, I think fusion is great, but I also see why calling something "carbonara" that's made with peas (looking at you, NYT) would irritate people. Experiment, make something new, fine. But words and names have meaning, and pasta with cheese and peas might be great, but it's not carbonara.

Agree. In the year of Covid, I tried to cook some of my favorite dishes that I was missing out on from not traveling, and I nearly needed a second PhD to wade through all the bad recipes online that are “adapted” for one reason or another. Fusion is fun if you want to play with flavors (I personally make a tortilla Lorraine based on a Spanish omelette) but you have to know the foundation to make it right.
Keep in mind though that many dishes that travel are also just weekday family meals and are meant to be more guidelines than rigid recipes (cassoulet; the infamous Bourguignon).