Can I ask. If you're screaming about teachers taking childcare leave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is the childcare leave people are talking about. Parents have been unable to work because teachers aren't back in person. Teachers and school districts have no sympathy- they said to hire childcare. And now teachers are saying they can't work because of daycare and childcare issues.

Yes, this.

Yes, the issue is teachers saying they can't work because they have kids at home. It's mindblowing.

"Parental leave" is generally related to birth or adoption of a newborn. Is that what OP is talking about? Because I don't see anyone in the schools debate talking about preventing people from taking leave related to a newborn.

I asked if people who took Parental Leave realize the hypocrisy of then protesting when people take other types of FMLA leave.

It doesn't surprise me, I got attacked here for making a comment about taking FMLA when my child had a fatal degenerative disorder, and was told that people only supported it for healthy newborns.

Apples and oranges, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both parents and teachers are eligible for childcare leave through FMLA or the CARES Act. What’s the big deal if someone takes it? Being a parent is a nightmare right now.

Is someone mad about that? If you qualify, go take it. Who is screaming about people taking FMLA?

Strawman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you take parental leave for your children's birth? Do you think family leave is something that should only be offered to you and not other people? Or only in professions that aren't female dominated?

How does it feel, if you're a woman who has benefited from feminism to be on the other side?

I am not screaming about this or anything else. But I'd ask you, what were these teachers doing for childcare pre-Covid? Some teachers are saying they can't afford to pay for childcare, but are also saying that parents that have to work outside ( as more and more things continue to open) should go hire someone and stop complaining.

The few teachers who have had to quit are not complaining; they are taking the hit by leaving their jobs or taking a leave of absence. For many people, their pre-covid childcare plans have disappeared. Not sure why you would expect teachers to not have similar problems.

No, there is a difference between leaving the workforce and taking a leave of absence. A leave of absence is granted by an employer, giving the employee a period of time during which they continue the employment relationship, but do not have to work. A leave of absence can be paid or unpaid.

Teachers, like other professionals, have a right to do what they need to do for their families. However, teachers, like other professionals, can be judged for their level of professionalism in meeting the needs of those they serve. If a contractor took a leave of absence in the middle of your renovation or your accountant quit in the middle of doing your taxes, you would be upset.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. It might not be a teacher problem, but more of a systemic problem. For some reason, the expectation is that teachers are free to use every day of leave they have, routinely missing school to care for their children or any other reason, with regard for the impact that has on a class. It's ok because the teacher has good reasons. Unfortunately, there is no safety net in place to make sure that a class with a chronically absent teacher has an alternative consistent presence to keep children on track. I would love to see this issue addressed at a systemic level, whether through job sharing, floater teachers/subs, or better support for teachers who are chronically absent to promote better consistency for students. It is well documented that chronic absenteeism on the part of teachers is associated with lower student performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

I don't understand how you can't see the hypocrisy in what you were just arguing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you take parental leave for your children's birth? Do you think family leave is something that should only be offered to you and not other people? Or only in professions that aren't female dominated?

How does it feel, if you're a woman who has benefited from feminism to be on the other side?

I am not screaming about this or anything else. But I'd ask you, what were these teachers doing for childcare pre-Covid? Some teachers are saying they can't afford to pay for childcare, but are also saying that parents that have to work outside ( as more and more things continue to open) should go hire someone and stop complaining.

The few teachers who have had to quit are not complaining; they are taking the hit by leaving their jobs or taking a leave of absence. For many people, their pre-covid childcare plans have disappeared. Not sure why you would expect teachers to not have similar problems.

MOST of everyone's pre-covid childcare plans were public schooling. It's like the chicken or the egg problem. We all need every public school to open so that we ALL can return to work, teachers included.

People with young children did not have public school as an option. I think we seem to forget that school-aged children are not the only children out there. I know as a parent of a teenager, I sometimes do, but I see my all my friends with younger kids struggling, teachers and non-teachers. I think there needs to be more room for everyone for empathy and understanding that schools aren't closed to make our lives difficult.

But at this point, they're not closed for any good reason.

hey are opening on a hybrid basis because mitigations are required. No expert is arguing that schools can just return to normal right now. Just because people have anecdotes about people they know all over the country doing so doesn't mean it is wise or really, actually happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

I don't understand how you can't see the hypocrisy in what you were just arguing.

Point it out to me.

[Anonymous]

We are mad about teachers attempting to take a type of leave which does not exist and/or is meant for another purpose entirely.

[Anonymous]

Not all- but many teachers let their childcare lapse because they liked the savings. Now they are in a bind because childcare filled their spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

Yes, I have seen the number of women pushed out of the workforce, in no small part to schools being closed.

THE REST OF US ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS. WE WERE TOLD WE SHOULD HAVE NOT HAD CHILDREN. TEACHERS TOLD US TO HIRE CHILDCARE.

Also, you need science and to do some research on 3-year-olds covid risks, and understand why the rest of us got over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

I don't understand how you can't see the hypocrisy in what you were just arguing.

Point it out to me.

sorry, no one has time to explain it like you're five. although i do look forward to your next comment which will say "that means it doesn't exist!" as though everything you can't understand isn't real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

Yes, I have seen the number of women pushed out of the workforce, in no small part to schools being closed.

THE REST OF US ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS. WE WERE TOLD WE SHOULD HAVE NOT HAD CHILDREN. TEACHERS TOLD US TO HIRE CHILDCARE.

Also, you need science and to do some research on 3-year-olds covid risks, and understand why the rest of us got over it.

The funny part is that many of us did in fact go out to hire childcare, and the above person is complaining that there is now a dearth of childcare available for teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you take parental leave for your children's birth? Do you think family leave is something that should only be offered to you and not other people? Or only in professions that aren't female dominated?

How does it feel, if you're a woman who has benefited from feminism to be on the other side?

I am not screaming about this or anything else. But I'd ask you, what were these teachers doing for childcare pre-Covid? Some teachers are saying they can't afford to pay for childcare, but are also saying that parents that have to work outside ( as more and more things continue to open) should go hire someone and stop complaining.

The few teachers who have had to quit are not complaining; they are taking the hit by leaving their jobs or taking a leave of absence. For many people, their pre-covid childcare plans have disappeared. Not sure why you would expect teachers to not have similar problems.

No, there is a difference between leaving the workforce and taking a leave of absence. A leave of absence is granted by an employer, giving the employee a period of time during which they continue the employment relationship, but do not have to work. A leave of absence can be paid or unpaid.

Teachers, like other professionals, have a right to do what they need to do for their families. However, teachers, like other professionals, can be judged for their level of professionalism in meeting the needs of those they serve. If a contractor took a leave of absence in the middle of your renovation or your accountant quit in the middle of doing your taxes, you would be upset.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. It might not be a teacher problem, but more of a systemic problem. For some reason, the expectation is that teachers are free to use every day of leave they have, routinely missing school to care for their children or any other reason, with regard for the impact that has on a class. It's ok because the teacher has good reasons. Unfortunately, there is no safety net in place to make sure that a class with a chronically absent teacher has an alternative consistent presence to keep children on track. I would love to see this issue addressed at a systemic level, whether through job sharing, floater teachers/subs, or better support for teachers who are chronically absent to promote better consistency for students. It is well documented that chronic absenteeism on the part of teachers is associated with lower student performance.

This is why I said they are leaving the workforce OR taking a leave of absence (in most cases, unpaid). Chronic absenteeism is a red herring. An important issue, but not relevant here.

I don't see any point in judging teachers or other professionals who had to leave the workforce (one way or the other) because of the situation surrounding a PANDEMIC. The situation is not the same as it would be in ordinary times, and at any rate, I would like to think if my contractor or accountant had to take an LOA or quit, I would have some empathy for whatever precipitated that decision, even if it were inconvenient and/or detrimental.

Some problems can't be disappeared by being angry at the people experiencing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

Yes, I have seen the number of women pushed out of the workforce, in no small part to schools being closed.

THE REST OF US ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS. WE WERE TOLD WE SHOULD HAVE NOT HAD CHILDREN. TEACHERS TOLD US TO HIRE CHILDCARE.

Also, you need science and to do some research on 3-year-olds covid risks, and understand why the rest of us got over it.

The funny part is that many of us did in fact go out to hire childcare, and the above person is complaining that there is now a dearth of childcare available for teachers.

I am NOT complaining about the dearth of options, I am simply being factual and empathetic. As I was with my other non-teacher friends (I am not a schoolteacher by the way) who either had to quit their jobs or pay substantially more for childcare or accept care they were not comfortable with.

Is there not enough empathy and sympathy for everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you take parental leave for your children's birth? Do you think family leave is something that should only be offered to you and not other people? Or only in professions that aren't female dominated?

How does it feel, if you're a woman who has benefited from feminism to be on the other side?

I am not screaming about this or anything else. But I'd ask you, what were these teachers doing for childcare pre-Covid? Some teachers are saying they can't afford to pay for childcare, but are also saying that parents that have to work outside ( as more and more things continue to open) should go hire someone and stop complaining.

The few teachers who have had to quit are not complaining; they are taking the hit by leaving their jobs or taking a leave of absence. For many people, their pre-covid childcare plans have disappeared. Not sure why you would expect teachers to not have similar problems.

No, there is a difference between leaving the workforce and taking a leave of absence. A leave of absence is granted by an employer, giving the employee a period of time during which they continue the employment relationship, but do not have to work. A leave of absence can be paid or unpaid.

Teachers, like other professionals, have a right to do what they need to do for their families. However, teachers, like other professionals, can be judged for their level of professionalism in meeting the needs of those they serve. If a contractor took a leave of absence in the middle of your renovation or your accountant quit in the middle of doing your taxes, you would be upset.

This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. It might not be a teacher problem, but more of a systemic problem. For some reason, the expectation is that teachers are free to use every day of leave they have, routinely missing school to care for their children or any other reason, with regard for the impact that has on a class. It's ok because the teacher has good reasons. Unfortunately, there is no safety net in place to make sure that a class with a chronically absent teacher has an alternative consistent presence to keep children on track. I would love to see this issue addressed at a systemic level, whether through job sharing, floater teachers/subs, or better support for teachers who are chronically absent to promote better consistency for students. It is well documented that chronic absenteeism on the part of teachers is associated with lower student performance.

This is why I said they are leaving the workforce OR taking a leave of absence (in most cases, unpaid). Chronic absenteeism is a red herring. An important issue, but not relevant here.

I don't see any point in judging teachers or other professionals who had to leave the workforce (one way or the other) because of the situation surrounding a PANDEMIC. The situation is not the same as it would be in ordinary times, and at any rate, I would like to think if my contractor or accountant had to take an LOA or quit, I would have some empathy for whatever precipitated that decision, even if it were inconvenient and/or detrimental.

Some problems can't be disappeared by being angry at the people experiencing them.

A leave of absence is an employment benefit that most other professionals are not given for a reason like not having childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just odd, because the rest of us already had to make these choices (quit to care for kids, hire child care, move a family member in, etc).

I'm lost as to how this is different for teachers.

Like, before the pandemic, were teachers just allowed to not work because they had non-newborns? Obviously not.

It is different because there is a pandemic. The relative or nanny or small at home daycare people may have used before may not be available. Also, your post assumes that pre-covid, teachers didn't face these very same choices you had to make. And now, everyone's mileage varies. I would not be comfortable sending my young child to pre-school at this point (if I had one), whereas I wouldn't have thought twice about it before. People (everyone) are having to make different choices than they would have a year ago.

Have you seen how many women have been pushed out of the workforce this year either due to childcare, unemployment, or discrimination? We have a lot of problems to deal with for a lot of people.

Yes, I have seen the number of women pushed out of the workforce, in no small part to schools being closed.

THE REST OF US ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS. WE WERE TOLD WE SHOULD HAVE NOT HAD CHILDREN. TEACHERS TOLD US TO HIRE CHILDCARE.

Also, you need science and to do some research on 3-year-olds covid risks, and understand why the rest of us got over it.

The funny part is that many of us did in fact go out to hire childcare, and the above person is complaining that there is now a dearth of childcare available for teachers.

I am NOT complaining about the dearth of options, I am simply being factual and empathetic. As I was with my other non-teacher friends (I am not a schoolteacher by the way) who either had to quit their jobs or pay substantially more for childcare or accept care they were not comfortable with.

Is there not enough empathy and sympathy for everyone?

Teachers treated us without empathy for 11 months and now they want some?

No.