Why do some women pick men who treat them shabbily?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh and also, blames the women for “picking” these men rather than asking the question “why do so many men treat women shabbily”

We all need self responsibility though. There are women who treat men poorly too. The only way to protect yourself is not to put up with poor behaviour to start with. If women refused to date men like this, the men would be forced to be single or change. Why would men change when there are so many women prepared to put up with their crazy behaviour.

I know people don't like hearing this but you don't walk through Rome with your wallet in your back pocket, you should be able to but you can't so you protect yourself.

In relationships you have to protect yourself as well. For me the question is why are women so afraid to speak up, still today, why do they have such low self esteem, why do they put up with that behaviour, they should be walking away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and also, blames the women for “picking” these men rather than asking the question “why do so many men treat women shabbily”

We all need self responsibility though. There are women who treat men poorly too. The only way to protect yourself is not to put up with poor behaviour to start with. If women refused to date men like this, the men would be forced to be single or change. Why would men change when there are so many women prepared to put up with their crazy behaviour.

I know people don't like hearing this but you don't walk through Rome with your wallet in your back pocket, you should be able to but you can't so you protect yourself.

In relationships you have to protect yourself as well. For me the question is why are women so afraid to speak up, still today, why do they have such low self esteem, why do they put up with that behaviour, they should be walking away.

Yup. You've cracked the code. Men are terrible because women put up with them. You've solved the mystery

Why are women so afraid to speak up? It can't be because we live in a society where women aren't believed when they report crimes to the police. It can't be because crimes against women are taken So Seriously that the overwhelming majority of rape kits are not tested. There's no way it's because men with a known history of sexual harassment is moved around, even in a major West Coast company, until a former AG gets involved in the investigation. The problem must be the women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you why I did. Really shitty examples growing up. It took FOREVER to unlearn. Seriously, some of the hardest work I've ever done. I could write a book about the effects of crap dads and the fallacy of "staying together for the kids."

I'd like to hear your thoughts on The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce.

[/quote
I will happily delve into this at some point when I have more time.

[Anonymous]

Girls are taught to be nice and always consider how what they do affects others' feelings. They also worry about making mistakes when presenting facts and often caveat statements. Men (often) bluster ahead without worry about making mistakes. This is a setup for women to be vulnerable to gaslighting.

I think the most critical skill I can teach my daughters is how to have hard conversations with people they care about. I demonstrate how to do this in my interactions with them and with their dad (my husband).

I don't expect to be taken care of and treated like a queen. I do expect to be respected and loved. My husband and I are pretty equitable in our relationship and we talk about it when we are not.

[Anonymous]

I do think it goes back to a strong father figure or other male role model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think it goes back to a strong father figure or other male role model.

Nope. And honestly the misogyny is strong in this statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think it goes back to a strong father figure or other male role model.

Nope. And honestly the misogyny is strong in this statement.

Not at all. It’s well known that if you’re abused by your parents, you’re likely to do the same, unless you actively try to prevent it. This is similar. If you watch your father being an a-hole, you’re conditioned to believe all men are like that.

[Anonymous]

The sad thing is that if you speak up and ask for better treatment in a relationship, the guy may decide you're too much trouble or high maintenance and go find a different woman who thinks he's awesome just the way he is. And holding out for the great guy may mean you end up alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that if you speak up and ask for better treatment in a relationship, the guy may decide you're too much trouble or high maintenance and go find a different woman who thinks he's awesome just the way he is. And holding out for the great guy may mean you end up alone.

Correct. We all need to understand that it is better to be alone than to be with someone that treats you like crap. People seek out what they are comfortable with, an abuser and a person that is used to being abused with find each other in a crowd. This is all learned behavior but it is a cycle of abuse/poor treatment that is hard to break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and also, blames the women for “picking” these men rather than asking the question “why do so many men treat women shabbily”

We all need self responsibility though. There are women who treat men poorly too. The only way to protect yourself is not to put up with poor behaviour to start with. If women refused to date men like this, the men would be forced to be single or change. Why would men change when there are so many women prepared to put up with their crazy behaviour.

I know people don't like hearing this but you don't walk through Rome with your wallet in your back pocket, you should be able to but you can't so you protect yourself.

In relationships you have to protect yourself as well. For me the question is why are women so afraid to speak up, still today, why do they have such low self esteem, why do they put up with that behaviour, they should be walking away.

Yup. You've cracked the code. Men are terrible because women put up with them. You've solved the mystery

Why are women so afraid to speak up? It can't be because we live in a society where women aren't believed when they report crimes to the police. It can't be because crimes against women are taken So Seriously that the overwhelming majority of rape kits are not tested. There's no way it's because men with a known history of sexual harassment is moved around, even in a major West Coast company, until a former AG gets involved in the investigation. The problem must be the women.

Great so eyeroll because you have gone from 0 to 1000 in one leap. Take it to the top, to women reporting sexual assault.

How about you take it down a notch to maybe 0-100 and women can start say expecting respect in relationships. My point is that as soon as a man shows red flags, they should be running. As soon as he lies, as soon as he stands them up for a date, disrespects them, they walk away. How about the first time he hits them, they leave, they don't get married to him, then stay in an abusive relationship and then a few years down the track, die at his hands. It really is that simple, if a man gets violent to you or throws things at you, you leave, you don't stay in that relationship. You do not ask him to change, or go to counselling, no, you pack your bag and you leave because it's unacceptable and women do this the very first time it happens.

That is the point I am making. Men have a problem, even men are afraid of other men and their anger and violence. Women cannot make them change but they can simply not accept this BS and perhaps slowly men may realise that this behaviour is not acceptable not only to women but to other men.

While women continue to stay in these relationships they will continue to be the victim when they don't need to be, they can walk away. It is a start but you eyeroll and come up with problems. I am not saying women are the problem, I am saying women should protect themselves and staying with a man who hits them isn't protecting themselves. How can you not see that?

How can you not see that numerous women would still be alive today if they had of walked away at the first punch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sad thing is that if you speak up and ask for better treatment in a relationship, the guy may decide you're too much trouble or high maintenance and go find a different woman who thinks he's awesome just the way he is. And holding out for the great guy may mean you end up alone.

And this is the worst thing I have ever read on DCUM. Scaring women into thinking if they hold out for someone who is kind to them and treats them right they will end up alone.

This very belief that women should take what they get because being with anyone is better than being alone.

The belief that expecting respect in a relationship is high maintenance.

This belief is misogyny at its finest. The sad fact is that women shouldn't be in a relationship unless they are getting treated fine to start with and yet women for some reason believe they are worth less than a man. Its 2021 and women still believe they are less than, they still question whether they should stay in a relationship that is clearly abusive, just go to the Relationships forum and you see it all the time, the question of should I stay and the numerous answers of run.

If a man wants you to think he is awesome just the way he is, and just the way he is means he is insulting, violent, abusive, controlling nah there are plenty of other men. Why is that considered awesome, why is that considered ok or normal, its not, why is that ok at all. It really isn't normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and also, blames the women for “picking” these men rather than asking the question “why do so many men treat women shabbily”

We all need self responsibility though. There are women who treat men poorly too. The only way to protect yourself is not to put up with poor behaviour to start with. If women refused to date men like this, the men would be forced to be single or change. Why would men change when there are so many women prepared to put up with their crazy behaviour.

I know people don't like hearing this but you don't walk through Rome with your wallet in your back pocket, you should be able to but you can't so you protect yourself.

In relationships you have to protect yourself as well. For me the question is why are women so afraid to speak up, still today, why do they have such low self esteem, why do they put up with that behaviour, they should be walking away.

Yup. You've cracked the code. Men are terrible because women put up with them. You've solved the mystery

Why are women so afraid to speak up? It can't be because we live in a society where women aren't believed when they report crimes to the police. It can't be because crimes against women are taken So Seriously that the overwhelming majority of rape kits are not tested. There's no way it's because men with a known history of sexual harassment is moved around, even in a major West Coast company, until a former AG gets involved in the investigation. The problem must be the women.

Great so eyeroll because you have gone from 0 to 1000 in one leap. Take it to the top, to women reporting sexual assault.

How about you take it down a notch to maybe 0-100 and women can start say expecting respect in relationships. My point is that as soon as a man shows red flags, they should be running. As soon as he lies, as soon as he stands them up for a date, disrespects them, they walk away. How about the first time he hits them, they leave, they don't get married to him, then stay in an abusive relationship and then a few years down the track, die at his hands. It really is that simple, if a man gets violent to you or throws things at you, you leave, you don't stay in that relationship. You do not ask him to change, or go to counselling, no, you pack your bag and you leave because it's unacceptable and women do this the very first time it happens.

That is the point I am making. Men have a problem, even men are afraid of other men and their anger and violence. Women cannot make them change but they can simply not accept this BS and perhaps slowly men may realise that this behaviour is not acceptable not only to women but to other men.

While women continue to stay in these relationships they will continue to be the victim when they don't need to be, they can walk away. It is a start but you eyeroll and come up with problems. I am not saying women are the problem, I am saying women should protect themselves and staying with a man who hits them isn't protecting themselves. How can you not see that?

How can you not see that numerous women would still be alive today if they had of walked away at the first punch?

Incorrect. They would still be alive today if the man hadn’t killed them. Stop trying to make them complicit in their own deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Girls are taught to be nice and always consider how what they do affects others' feelings. They also worry about making mistakes when presenting facts and often caveat statements. Men (often) bluster ahead without worry about making mistakes. This is a setup for women to be vulnerable to gaslighting.

I think the most critical skill I can teach my daughters is how to have hard conversations with people they care about. I demonstrate how to do this in my interactions with them and with their dad (my husband).

I don't expect to be taken care of and treated like a queen. I do expect to be respected and loved. My husband and I are pretty equitable in our relationship and we talk about it when we are not.

I love this. ITA agree that women are socialized to be people-pleasers and hyper-aware of the needs of others more so than their own. I still struggle with having hard conversations and being able to recognize how I am feeling. You sound like a good mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I almost went down this road. It was like the analogy of the frog in the pot of water. It started fine, and the warning signs and trouble came on so gradually, so subtly, they were easy to ignore. I was gaslighting myself.

Yep

Most of the time the guy doesn’t start out being a jerk

+100

The love bombing can go on quite some time ...and by then you already have a ring on your finger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you why I did...

He was great until I was pregnant with our 2 nd child. He had a metal health breakdown. There were no signs that he would end up being terrible to me.

As soon as I noticed an issues I sought therapy.

Everybody missed it, my therapist, my family, my friends.

I would describe his behavior and I was told... marriage is work, everybody has ups and downs, it gets better when the kids are older, this is totally normal with young kids, you are being too sensitive, you need to fulfill his emotional needs.

After a few years I did my own research, diagnosed him, found and fired many therapist until I found one that could help (lots of bad therapists out there).

Same!