Covid throwing monkey wrenches into relationships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry OP.

Yes, unfortunately, this new social pressure is here to stay for awhile. Just be clear and kind. You can say nicely but firmly you are not willing to up the risk. I think the pp who made it sound like an extra two people are no big deal demonstrates the problem. Some people realize, it is no longer “2 more people”. It is everyone the two people interacted with the week before you have to worry about. So adding 2 more people has a multiplier effect.

This is a good way (IMO the correct way) to think about it. But OP is correct that many people are sensitive about others' risk tolerance and some are getting offended to the point where friendships and family relationships are getting strained at best. It's a sad collateral damage of COVID. I'm always surprised to see people mention they were "comfortable" in a particular venue. Yes, masks or PPE help and you can see those, but you can't see or feel exposure to a virus, so I wouldn't take that much comfort in how you feel based on visual observation.

OP here. I agree. There is a misguided sense that if you "feel" ok, it's ok. I haven't seen my own parents nor siblings since March, and that's because we've all realized it has nothing to do with how we "feel." This is a highly contagious virus that doesn't take into consideration how comfortable we feel with each other. That's why I'm so suprised by my friend altering the plans. She's known people who fell deathly ill from Covid. And things are getting worse out there. We're at record numbers and that tells me now is not the time to bring people into our home we don't know well. We didn't do that back in April, so why now? For the life of me I don't understand why my friend thinks DH and I should be ok with this. If my own siblings, who I haven't seen for months, visited, I certainly wouldn't bring them to anyone else's house. That's the last thing I'd do, especially knowing that one of them is always on public transportation.

Thank you for all of the advice. This is not easy to navigate, and not something I expected to have to navigate seeing how bad this winter may be. DH is leaning towards just calling off the whole thing, and I'm starting to think for the sake of keeping the peace, and staying healthy, that may be the best thing to do. Oh well. There's always next year.

Because she misses her brother and wants to include him. The only reason this is breaking relationships is because people see any difference in risk evaluation or tolerance as a character flaw, or as totally incomprehensible, or as some kind of judgment on them. Is your friend generally reckless? Do you think she's taking proper precautions generally? If so, then this is a relatively minor difference of opinion. If you see it that way, and see your friend's desire to include her brother as born of love (including love for her kids -- perhaps they'd LOVE to see their aunt and uncle), then it's a lot easier to navigate it. You can drop all the judgment, just tell you what you are or are not willing to do, and accept whatever decision she makes without holding a grudge.

[Anonymous]

Oh sorry Jane, I really don't feel comfortable hosting any additional people. I understand if you want to have Thanksgiving with your brother, but then our family will probably just hang out on our own this year.

This is not hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're talking about giving up on a relationship because a friend wanted to invite two extra people? "Sigh," indeed.

No, but shes talking about giving up her thanksgiving plans because of different levels of fear or safety concerns. That cant be something she can mourn without your criticism?

OP here. It's not about an extra two people. It's about making it nice for the kids and my friend's brother and SO will probably be just fine psychologically if they spend the holiday together. That's all I was asking for. The point is to avoid a bigger party with people DH and I don't know. She can have dessert with them if she needs to see her brother. There's enough information out there about Covid and how contagious it is and the number of people falling ill. I've spend Thanksgiving with only a handful of friends. Her brother is an adult with an SO. Again, this was for the kids, not everyone else.

OK fine, but she might think that making something nice for her kids is ranked as them spending time with their uncle over having this holiday with you. I am DEEPLY committed to my friends but my sibling I am ride or die for- if I have to choose its never going to be the friends, even though they are almost as close to me or more so than many other family members. TBH OP your post reads a little jealous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend and I were planning to hold Thanksgiving together because our kids are close and we've all been socializing since restrctions started. I thought we were all on the same page about keeping things small until my friend said she wants to invite her brother and his SO because they have nowhere to go. Sigh. I told her DH and I were under the impression it would just be our little group. The conversation ended uncomfortably with her asking what's really the big deal. He's fine. Yes, we're all fine but still, based on the numbers, it could be wishful thinking.

Is this how it's going to be until the pandemic is over? I feel like a few friendships have already started to wither due to varying levels of comfort, willingness to Zoom, discomfort with mask wearing. Then, there are the indignant grandparents you have to warn against flying on a plane for Christmas because they're well over 70 and if they get Covid, you're going to have to fly out there to go to the hospital and God forbid, arrange for a burial... I'm so sick of this.

You sound a little nutty. There is a 95% survival rate for 70 somethings who get COVID. I’m not saying they should travel, but it isn’t an automatic death sentence.

...if someone told you your 70-something mother had a 1-in-20 chance of being killed if she went out to dinner, would you advise her to go to that dinner? That's what 5% means.

Would it help to know that she also has a, say, 3-in-20 chance of being very ill and hospitalized *alone* for a while without dying, and-- heck-- another 6-in-20 chance of being miserable at home for a couple of weeks? Does that... sound worth it to you?

I'm a NP by the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're talking about giving up on a relationship because a friend wanted to invite two extra people? "Sigh," indeed.

No, but shes talking about giving up her thanksgiving plans because of different levels of fear or safety concerns. That cant be something she can mourn without your criticism?

OP here. It's not about an extra two people. It's about making it nice for the kids and my friend's brother and SO will probably be just fine psychologically if they spend the holiday together. That's all I was asking for. The point is to avoid a bigger party with people DH and I don't know. She can have dessert with them if she needs to see her brother. There's enough information out there about Covid and how contagious it is and the number of people falling ill. I've spend Thanksgiving with only a handful of friends. Her brother is an adult with an SO. Again, this was for the kids, not everyone else.

OK fine, but she might think that making something nice for her kids is ranked as them spending time with their uncle over having this holiday with you. I am DEEPLY committed to my friends but my sibling I am ride or die for- if I have to choose its never going to be the friends, even though they are almost as close to me or more so than many other family members. TBH OP your post reads a little jealous

Then only plan dinner with family. Make that the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clairfy, we were planning to hold it at my house. If it were at her house, well, then this would be easier.

Well then, you should say no.

Personally, I dont think you should be hosting her either. Stay home with your own household like the public health experts are begging people to do.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think Thanksgiving should be postponed until next spring/summer (or whenever all the members of your family are vaccinated). THAT will be something to be thankful for and warrants celebration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know op. You trust these friends enough so that you include them in “your bubble”. You do know that you have no way to know how “fine” they are right? You only think you know because you trust them.

That being said, you can host or not host anybody you’d like. That hasn’t changed with covid.

You did say that you want Thanksgiving to be “fun for the kids”. The people you are excluding are the uncle and maybe future aunt of kids whom you like and trust enough to include in your bubble.

Don’t think for a minute that your decision whatever you do won’t impact them.

The kids may really want to see their uncle and aunt. I know mine would. We also have two sets of aunts and uncles who do not have children, a status you seem to frown upon. Know that there isn’t much for people to do this Thanksgiving and that the brother and girlfriend may really be looking forward to seeing their nieces and nephews if not your own kids.


It sounds creepy to say it given all the uncle niece jokes, but I can tell by watching my kids’ aunts and uncles, they’d be sad if not hurt at not being able to see their nieces and nephews. I don’t talk about it much, and the world treats people without children as “well, they have all this free time, they don’t need family time” when these aunts and uncles may need time with nieces and nephews in a way that is very deep and personal.

If you don’t host them due to covid, plan on something like the following happening.

You say “happy Thanksgiving” and one of the kids says “no it isn’t, Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane aren’t here”.
Or “one of your friends kids brings a book and says to your kid “I’m not playing with you, your mom told my mom Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane might have covid so they aren’t allowed to enjoy Thanksgiving”.


Or, when the kids are old enough, they will tell their parents they don’t want to see you.
My kids can and probably would do all of these. Actually, my kids would probably start coughing and talking about how they feel like they have a fever just to f**ck with you.


Or, you will think everything is fine only to have one of the kids as an adult tell their children about Covid and say “I remember Covid, we hung out with Sally and Jack and their kids. In many ways it wasn’t too bad. Then Thanksgiving happened, and I’ll never forget how they wouldn’t host Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane, saying they weren’t sure they were healthy… and I’ve never forgotten how mean that was, yes they were allowed not to host, but when I think of it, I go right back to my little kid self and I’ve hated Sally ever since”.

Pain isn’t rational and you can’t predict who you will hurt, in what way and how they will feel about you.

If I were you, and you really didn’t want to host the family members of people you claim to really like, (something that puzzles me) I’d tell this friend your oven or your furnace broke and you can’t host.


In other words, find a way to get out of hosting by blaming your house, blaming something that can happen to anybody. I’d vote for the furnace, that way nobody can say “but we’ll just bring lots of food” or “we’ll eat off paper plates”.

You aren’t wrong for not hosting the brother and girlfriend, you just need to find a way to do it in a way that is socially acceptable and won’t damage the friendship. I can guarantee you that if you go about it in the “my house my rules” method, this friendship will never be the same. You can treat people how you’d like but nobody has to agree to remain in a relationship with you if they feel that you have treated them or their family poorly. Your friendship and your bubble aren’t that awesome.

are you kidding pp???
you and your kids sound quite obnoxious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know op. You trust these friends enough so that you include them in “your bubble”. You do know that you have no way to know how “fine” they are right? You only think you know because you trust them.

That being said, you can host or not host anybody you’d like. That hasn’t changed with covid.

You did say that you want Thanksgiving to be “fun for the kids”. The people you are excluding are the uncle and maybe future aunt of kids whom you like and trust enough to include in your bubble.

Don’t think for a minute that your decision whatever you do won’t impact them.

The kids may really want to see their uncle and aunt. I know mine would. We also have two sets of aunts and uncles who do not have children, a status you seem to frown upon. Know that there isn’t much for people to do this Thanksgiving and that the brother and girlfriend may really be looking forward to seeing their nieces and nephews if not your own kids.


It sounds creepy to say it given all the uncle niece jokes, but I can tell by watching my kids’ aunts and uncles, they’d be sad if not hurt at not being able to see their nieces and nephews. I don’t talk about it much, and the world treats people without children as “well, they have all this free time, they don’t need family time” when these aunts and uncles may need time with nieces and nephews in a way that is very deep and personal.

If you don’t host them due to covid, plan on something like the following happening.

You say “happy Thanksgiving” and one of the kids says “no it isn’t, Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane aren’t here”.
Or “one of your friends kids brings a book and says to your kid “I’m not playing with you, your mom told my mom Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane might have covid so they aren’t allowed to enjoy Thanksgiving”.


Or, when the kids are old enough, they will tell their parents they don’t want to see you.
My kids can and probably would do all of these. Actually, my kids would probably start coughing and talking about how they feel like they have a fever just to f**ck with you.


Or, you will think everything is fine only to have one of the kids as an adult tell their children about Covid and say “I remember Covid, we hung out with Sally and Jack and their kids. In many ways it wasn’t too bad. Then Thanksgiving happened, and I’ll never forget how they wouldn’t host Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane, saying they weren’t sure they were healthy… and I’ve never forgotten how mean that was, yes they were allowed not to host, but when I think of it, I go right back to my little kid self and I’ve hated Sally ever since”.

Pain isn’t rational and you can’t predict who you will hurt, in what way and how they will feel about you.

If I were you, and you really didn’t want to host the family members of people you claim to really like, (something that puzzles me) I’d tell this friend your oven or your furnace broke and you can’t host.


In other words, find a way to get out of hosting by blaming your house, blaming something that can happen to anybody. I’d vote for the furnace, that way nobody can say “but we’ll just bring lots of food” or “we’ll eat off paper plates”.

You aren’t wrong for not hosting the brother and girlfriend, you just need to find a way to do it in a way that is socially acceptable and won’t damage the friendship. I can guarantee you that if you go about it in the “my house my rules” method, this friendship will never be the same. You can treat people how you’d like but nobody has to agree to remain in a relationship with you if they feel that you have treated them or their family poorly. Your friendship and your bubble aren’t that awesome.

I wouldn't share with people that you raised kids who behave this way and that you think it's ok... Yikes.

[Anonymous]

I'd blame it on my DH.

He's been my fall-guy during covid quandary.

In reality, he is much more relaxed about transmission risk than I am. But no one knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd blame it on my DH.

He's been my fall-guy during covid quandary.

In reality, he is much more relaxed about transmission risk than I am. But no one knows that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know op. You trust these friends enough so that you include them in “your bubble”. You do know that you have no way to know how “fine” they are right? You only think you know because you trust them.

That being said, you can host or not host anybody you’d like. That hasn’t changed with covid.

You did say that you want Thanksgiving to be “fun for the kids”. The people you are excluding are the uncle and maybe future aunt of kids whom you like and trust enough to include in your bubble.

Don’t think for a minute that your decision whatever you do won’t impact them.

The kids may really want to see their uncle and aunt. I know mine would. We also have two sets of aunts and uncles who do not have children, a status you seem to frown upon. Know that there isn’t much for people to do this Thanksgiving and that the brother and girlfriend may really be looking forward to seeing their nieces and nephews if not your own kids.


It sounds creepy to say it given all the uncle niece jokes, but I can tell by watching my kids’ aunts and uncles, they’d be sad if not hurt at not being able to see their nieces and nephews. I don’t talk about it much, and the world treats people without children as “well, they have all this free time, they don’t need family time” when these aunts and uncles may need time with nieces and nephews in a way that is very deep and personal.

If you don’t host them due to covid, plan on something like the following happening.

You say “happy Thanksgiving” and one of the kids says “no it isn’t, Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane aren’t here”.
Or “one of your friends kids brings a book and says to your kid “I’m not playing with you, your mom told my mom Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane might have covid so they aren’t allowed to enjoy Thanksgiving”.


Or, when the kids are old enough, they will tell their parents they don’t want to see you.
My kids can and probably would do all of these. Actually, my kids would probably start coughing and talking about how they feel like they have a fever just to f**ck with you.


Or, you will think everything is fine only to have one of the kids as an adult tell their children about Covid and say “I remember Covid, we hung out with Sally and Jack and their kids. In many ways it wasn’t too bad. Then Thanksgiving happened, and I’ll never forget how they wouldn’t host Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane, saying they weren’t sure they were healthy… and I’ve never forgotten how mean that was, yes they were allowed not to host, but when I think of it, I go right back to my little kid self and I’ve hated Sally ever since”.

Pain isn’t rational and you can’t predict who you will hurt, in what way and how they will feel about you.

If I were you, and you really didn’t want to host the family members of people you claim to really like, (something that puzzles me) I’d tell this friend your oven or your furnace broke and you can’t host.


In other words, find a way to get out of hosting by blaming your house, blaming something that can happen to anybody. I’d vote for the furnace, that way nobody can say “but we’ll just bring lots of food” or “we’ll eat off paper plates”.

You aren’t wrong for not hosting the brother and girlfriend, you just need to find a way to do it in a way that is socially acceptable and won’t damage the friendship. I can guarantee you that if you go about it in the “my house my rules” method, this friendship will never be the same. You can treat people how you’d like but nobody has to agree to remain in a relationship with you if they feel that you have treated them or their family poorly. Your friendship and your bubble aren’t that awesome.

There is a pandemic and you want OP to come up with ridicules, you sound stupid and obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're talking about giving up on a relationship because a friend wanted to invite two extra people? "Sigh," indeed.

There's a pandemic going on, Susan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know op. You trust these friends enough so that you include them in “your bubble”. You do know that you have no way to know how “fine” they are right? You only think you know because you trust them.

That being said, you can host or not host anybody you’d like. That hasn’t changed with covid.

You did say that you want Thanksgiving to be “fun for the kids”. The people you are excluding are the uncle and maybe future aunt of kids whom you like and trust enough to include in your bubble.

Don’t think for a minute that your decision whatever you do won’t impact them.

The kids may really want to see their uncle and aunt. I know mine would. We also have two sets of aunts and uncles who do not have children, a status you seem to frown upon. Know that there isn’t much for people to do this Thanksgiving and that the brother and girlfriend may really be looking forward to seeing their nieces and nephews if not your own kids.


It sounds creepy to say it given all the uncle niece jokes, but I can tell by watching my kids’ aunts and uncles, they’d be sad if not hurt at not being able to see their nieces and nephews. I don’t talk about it much, and the world treats people without children as “well, they have all this free time, they don’t need family time” when these aunts and uncles may need time with nieces and nephews in a way that is very deep and personal.

If you don’t host them due to covid, plan on something like the following happening.

You say “happy Thanksgiving” and one of the kids says “no it isn’t, Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane aren’t here”.
Or “one of your friends kids brings a book and says to your kid “I’m not playing with you, your mom told my mom Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane might have covid so they aren’t allowed to enjoy Thanksgiving”.


Or, when the kids are old enough, they will tell their parents they don’t want to see you.
My kids can and probably would do all of these. Actually, my kids would probably start coughing and talking about how they feel like they have a fever just to f**ck with you.


Or, you will think everything is fine only to have one of the kids as an adult tell their children about Covid and say “I remember Covid, we hung out with Sally and Jack and their kids. In many ways it wasn’t too bad. Then Thanksgiving happened, and I’ll never forget how they wouldn’t host Uncle Joe and Aunt Jane, saying they weren’t sure they were healthy… and I’ve never forgotten how mean that was, yes they were allowed not to host, but when I think of it, I go right back to my little kid self and I’ve hated Sally ever since”.

Pain isn’t rational and you can’t predict who you will hurt, in what way and how they will feel about you.

If I were you, and you really didn’t want to host the family members of people you claim to really like, (something that puzzles me) I’d tell this friend your oven or your furnace broke and you can’t host.


In other words, find a way to get out of hosting by blaming your house, blaming something that can happen to anybody. I’d vote for the furnace, that way nobody can say “but we’ll just bring lots of food” or “we’ll eat off paper plates”.

You aren’t wrong for not hosting the brother and girlfriend, you just need to find a way to do it in a way that is socially acceptable and won’t damage the friendship. I can guarantee you that if you go about it in the “my house my rules” method, this friendship will never be the same. You can treat people how you’d like but nobody has to agree to remain in a relationship with you if they feel that you have treated them or their family poorly. Your friendship and your bubble aren’t that awesome.

Good GOD this is a lot of ridiculously speculative melodrama over the OP politely asserting her right not to have people outside her bubble in her house during a pandemic.

You should write for soap operas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To clairfy, we were planning to hold it at my house. If it were at her house, well, then this would be easier.

Well honestly that is super rude to be inviting other people to a Thanksgiving you're not even hosting. Like even in non covid times. I would just say, 'I don't feel comfortable hosting people outside of our POD, I hope you understand and I totally get it if you decide you would rather spend the day with your brother.'

+1

Kids aside, she’s asking to include other folks that you have no idea what they have been doing socially, and what their risk tolerance is.

The script above is perfect...but then what are you going to do after Thanksgiving?

I'm also wondering if she felt okay asking because she and OP were planning the Thanksgiving together, so that, while OP was technically hosting at her house, it was really a joint endeavor.

I would add -- if she's already seeing her brother, I think the risk is already partially baked in.

I think she felt okay because she realizes that Thanksgiving is not a "kid holiday" (though OP is trying to steer it that way) and thought the other couple might be lonely. Thanksgiving with just two does get that way.