transportation to TJ is a stumbling block

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone who goes to TJ faces the transportation problem. Fairfax county is large heavily populated and a traffic nightmare. It’s not just poor kids facing transportation issues: it’s almost everyone. TJ makes that clear at all orientations. It’s not a problem easily solved.

Again, the depots are recent. The fix is returning to neighborhood routes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I see eliminating the $100 test fee as a positive step, but transportation still remains a stumbling block for many in the populations they hope to reach most. If you are getting bused to an elementary school "depot," the student may still be a substantial distance from their house. A merit based lottery may not change/remove some of the biggest barriers. If it takes a student 90 minutes to get there each way and leaves you without the opportunity to participate in after-school activities, some may see that as more trouble than it's worth.

I have heard this from several families. I'm not saying there is an easy answer, but for some, that is an easier roadblock to bypass.

cool story op. so what are you proposing? door to door pick-ups and drop offs?

Or drive-by TJ instructions.. A teacher comes to your house to teach you! After all you won the lottery!

There is door to door transportation at the other end of the spectrum. Hmmm.............equity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why there's the eight period. Also, people are going to come up with millions of roadblocks as to why we should keep the status quo. Most of them are self serving attempts to keep TJ an exclusive club for their own kids, not real concern.

Any concrete suggestions vs. wishful thinking?

Yeah. Let the families figure out whether or not they want to apply, and let them figure out what they want to do if they get in. They'll do fine without your help either way. Families figure it out the way it is now, and a paternalistic need to solve their problems for them doesn't help.

[Anonymous]

You know what else is a stumbling bar? All the work you have to do there. Kids routinely do more work there than base schools... just saying since you say transportation is a stumbling block. The amount of work there pales in comparison to making transportation work.

-tj grad

[Anonymous]

Even with buses, there is a two class system. Those on the buses ride for hours. Others have parents who drive them there and pick them up to save time and give them more sleep, or give them a car when they are old enough.

Some counties don't provide bus service, or don't provide it to TJ when that county's schools are closed for snow or teacher work days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's true, but TJ is actually closer to the most under-represented Regions, and furthest from where most of the kids currently come from.

+1 Plus, there's a pilot program in a couple of the lower SES schools the gives students free metro bus passes that they can use.

[Anonymous]

^^^ I the metro bus is more direct or to get from the TJ depot stop to home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

That's one perspective. Another perspective as a URM is that my kid is very strong in STEM, has all As and is always one of the strongest math students in the grade. I did not support DC applying to TJ, despite the incredible STEM opportunities, because I've heard about how stressful and cutthroat the environment is. Maybe I would have been supportive of a less cutthroat environment. Also, why would where your high schooler goes to school affect how many hours you can log at work? Are you speaking as a hypothetical URM or are you actually a URM speaking from expeexperience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what else is a stumbling bar? All the work you have to do there. Kids routinely do more work there than base schools... just saying since you say transportation is a stumbling block. The amount of work there pales in comparison to making transportation work.

-tj grad

There is no need for the workload to be exponentially more than at the base school for TJ to provide a strong STEM curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why there's the eight period. Also, people are going to come up with millions of roadblocks as to why we should keep the status quo. Most of them are self serving attempts to keep TJ an exclusive club for their own kids, not real concern.

Any concrete suggestions vs. wishful thinking?

Yeah. Let the families figure out whether or not they want to apply, and let them figure out what they want to do if they get in. They'll do fine without your help either way. Families figure it out the way it is now, and a paternalistic need to solve their problems for them doesn't help.

+1

[Anonymous]

The faux concerns about the ability of URM students to get to TJ and back - just so their own special snowflakes in western Fairfax who went to Carson can keep going there instead - are laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

Even if they make it easier to get there and to get in, will many URMs even apply because of other reasons? I am not familiar that much with this area but am very familiar with NYC, where a lot of the URM population is Dominican or Puerto Rican and are very observant Catholics (on the other hand, most East Asian immigrants in NYC are not very religious). For them, the goal is Catholic school (many of which in NYC offer good financial aid and/or discounts for additional kids). I remember an interview where Jennifer Lopez said her parents were so excited to send her to a good Catholic school because that meant they'd made it. Different groups have different ideas of what it means to "make it."

Interesting point, but that is not one I'll buy into. There are a million kids in the NYC school system and about a dozen specialized high schools spread throughout the 5 boroughs of NY to help address the commute issue. There are *also* local catholic schools that some families would prefer. I think TJ may need to start a shadow program from the elementary school age. Maybe TJ students get encouraged to go back to their elementary school and high school once a year so they can talk about the school. You can build it right into the school year with one day per semester as outreach. You have to see the potential to want to reach it. You have to have someone tell you the commute is worth it. Perhaps also more shadow days at TJ. Maybe elementary schools and middle schools with higher URM are given an opportunity to do a field trip to TJ so they can see the building, meet with students there and participate in a lab experiment. This also gives parents an opportunity to learn more about the school before the test.

They do stuff like this in NYC and it hasn't had much impact.

Also, there may be about a dozen spread out schools, but trust me, the dedicated families/kids do NOT rank based on their location, a good chunk will ALWAYS rank Stuy first and figure out the beast of a commute later.

You are right, the dedicated families will figure out how to apply and get to Stuy. I have to say, I work with a Stuy grad and he is considered a real dud in our department. No one wants to work with him because he just isn't very good at his job. If he's any indication of Stuy grads, I'm not impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The faux concerns about the ability of URM students to get to TJ and back - just so their own special snowflakes in western Fairfax who went to Carson can keep going there instead - are laughable.

Interesting how you assume that these are parents of potential applicants - I read these inputs to be from parents of current or former TJ students. I also don't read these comments as saying don't do the merit lottery - in fact, most state the opposite - but adding that FCPS will have to make a much bigger commitment to making this effort succeed. And, honestly, lose the "snowflakes" reference - it makes you seem like an unkind and angry person, which I am sure you are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what else is a stumbling bar? All the work you have to do there. Kids routinely do more work there than base schools... just saying since you say transportation is a stumbling block. The amount of work there pales in comparison to making transportation work.

-tj grad

There is no need for the workload to be exponentially more than at the base school for TJ to provide a strong STEM curriculum.

LOL. Yeah, that must be changed too to make it open to all students, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what else is a stumbling bar? All the work you have to do there. Kids routinely do more work there than base schools... just saying since you say transportation is a stumbling block. The amount of work there pales in comparison to making transportation work.

-tj grad

There is no need for the workload to be exponentially more than at the base school for TJ to provide a strong STEM curriculum.

+1000