transportation to TJ is a stumbling block

[Anonymous]

Can’t get URM

[Anonymous]

Even if you have a SAHP, this is not really fixable given the sheer geographic size of the area TJ draws from (just in Fairfax county, but especially when you throw in Arlington, Loudoun, etc.), the state of traffic in the region, and the crappy and relatively expensive public transit/Metro coverage.

This is far bigger than "a TJ" problem. This is a problem for anyone who runs a public service here or for anyone who has employees here, frankly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unlike Stuyvesant which is located in Manhattan, TJ is actually relatively close to some of the poorest parts of the county and farther from some of the wealthier areas they draw more kids from.

Yes, I'm sure the kids out by Herndon agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike Stuyvesant which is located in Manhattan, TJ is actually relatively close to some of the poorest parts of the county and farther from some of the wealthier areas they draw more kids from.

Yes, I'm sure the kids out by Herndon agree with you.

Did the phrase "some of" trip you up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

Even if they make it easier to get there and to get in, will many URMs even apply because of other reasons? I am not familiar that much with this area but am very familiar with NYC, where a lot of the URM population is Dominican or Puerto Rican and are very observant Catholics (on the other hand, most East Asian immigrants in NYC are not very religious). For them, the goal is Catholic school (many of which in NYC offer good financial aid and/or discounts for additional kids). I remember an interview where Jennifer Lopez said her parents were so excited to send her to a good Catholic school because that meant they'd made it. Different groups have different ideas of what it means to "make it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

Even if they make it easier to get there and to get in, will many URMs even apply because of other reasons? I am not familiar that much with this area but am very familiar with NYC, where a lot of the URM population is Dominican or Puerto Rican and are very observant Catholics (on the other hand, most East Asian immigrants in NYC are not very religious). For them, the goal is Catholic school (many of which in NYC offer good financial aid and/or discounts for additional kids). I remember an interview where Jennifer Lopez said her parents were so excited to send her to a good Catholic school because that meant they'd made it. Different groups have different ideas of what it means to "make it."

Interesting point, but that is not one I'll buy into. There are a million kids in the NYC school system and about a dozen specialized high schools spread throughout the 5 boroughs of NY to help address the commute issue. There are *also* local catholic schools that some families would prefer. I think TJ may need to start a shadow program from the elementary school age. Maybe TJ students get encouraged to go back to their elementary school and high school once a year so they can talk about the school. You can build it right into the school year with one day per semester as outreach. You have to see the potential to want to reach it. You have to have someone tell you the commute is worth it. Perhaps also more shadow days at TJ. Maybe elementary schools and middle schools with higher URM are given an opportunity to do a field trip to TJ so they can see the building, meet with students there and participate in a lab experiment. This also gives parents an opportunity to learn more about the school before the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

Even if they make it easier to get there and to get in, will many URMs even apply because of other reasons? I am not familiar that much with this area but am very familiar with NYC, where a lot of the URM population is Dominican or Puerto Rican and are very observant Catholics (on the other hand, most East Asian immigrants in NYC are not very religious). For them, the goal is Catholic school (many of which in NYC offer good financial aid and/or discounts for additional kids). I remember an interview where Jennifer Lopez said her parents were so excited to send her to a good Catholic school because that meant they'd made it. Different groups have different ideas of what it means to "make it."

Interesting point, but that is not one I'll buy into. There are a million kids in the NYC school system and about a dozen specialized high schools spread throughout the 5 boroughs of NY to help address the commute issue. There are *also* local catholic schools that some families would prefer. I think TJ may need to start a shadow program from the elementary school age. Maybe TJ students get encouraged to go back to their elementary school and high school once a year so they can talk about the school. You can build it right into the school year with one day per semester as outreach. You have to see the potential to want to reach it. You have to have someone tell you the commute is worth it. Perhaps also more shadow days at TJ. Maybe elementary schools and middle schools with higher URM are given an opportunity to do a field trip to TJ so they can see the building, meet with students there and participate in a lab experiment. This also gives parents an opportunity to learn more about the school before the test.

They do stuff like this in NYC and it hasn't had much impact.

Also, there may be about a dozen spread out schools, but trust me, the dedicated families/kids do NOT rank based on their location, a good chunk will ALWAYS rank Stuy first and figure out the beast of a commute later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- calm your accusatory tone. I'm not suggesting this as a reason to keep it the way it is, but if the Board thinks this fixes the problem, it doesn't. If you think it does, you're blind and you want a quick fix to make yourself feel better. Working class families where parents are working more than one job to make ends meet and taking long commutes themselves may see it as a major roadblock. It's FAR if you don't have a car. Assuming that all "poor kids" live around TJ is also ridiculous. The county is big. And I was one of those immigrant kids in NYC going to a specialized HS with a 60+ minute commute each way. It is a different high school experience with a commute like that. Throw in potentially needing a job to help the family, and it can eliminate the option. NYC also has a far more extensive public transportation network than Fairfax. Maybe it means they need to think of multiple options or do a survey of prospective families. Maybe the school needs to help create a serious incentive for car-pools, use of public busing options (a fairfax county bus may get them closer to home than being dropped at the local elementary school and allow them to stay after school). NYC public school kids get a free bus/train pass to use on public transportation), late bus options so kids can participate in after-school activities, etc. Just because you can get in, doesn't mean it's easy to attend. Think outside the box a bit.

Agreed.

What the board is saying is that they can’t URM to even apply and they are blaming prep centers and Asians for this.

But as an URM, if my kid can excel at his base school, I’m not going to force him to go to TJ is it means that I can login more hours at work to pay the bills.
This isn’t AZ.

Even if they make it easier to get there and to get in, will many URMs even apply because of other reasons? I am not familiar that much with this area but am very familiar with NYC, where a lot of the URM population is Dominican or Puerto Rican and are very observant Catholics (on the other hand, most East Asian immigrants in NYC are not very religious). For them, the goal is Catholic school (many of which in NYC offer good financial aid and/or discounts for additional kids). I remember an interview where Jennifer Lopez said her parents were so excited to send her to a good Catholic school because that meant they'd made it. Different groups have different ideas of what it means to "make it."

Interesting point, but that is not one I'll buy into. There are a million kids in the NYC school system and about a dozen specialized high schools spread throughout the 5 boroughs of NY to help address the commute issue. There are *also* local catholic schools that some families would prefer. I think TJ may need to start a shadow program from the elementary school age. Maybe TJ students get encouraged to go back to their elementary school and high school once a year so they can talk about the school. You can build it right into the school year with one day per semester as outreach. You have to see the potential to want to reach it. You have to have someone tell you the commute is worth it. Perhaps also more shadow days at TJ. Maybe elementary schools and middle schools with higher URM are given an opportunity to do a field trip to TJ so they can see the building, meet with students there and participate in a lab experiment. This also gives parents an opportunity to learn more about the school before the test.

You are pretty naïve, aren't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I see eliminating the $100 test fee as a positive step, but transportation still remains a stumbling block for many in the populations they hope to reach most. If you are getting bused to an elementary school "depot," the student may still be a substantial distance from their house. A merit based lottery may not change/remove some of the biggest barriers. If it takes a student 90 minutes to get there each way and leaves you without the opportunity to participate in after-school activities, some may see that as more trouble than it's worth.

I have heard this from several families. I'm not saying there is an easy answer, but for some, that is an easier roadblock to bypass.

cool story op. so what are you proposing? door to door pick-ups and drop offs?

Or drive-by TJ instructions.. A teacher comes to your house to teach you! After all you won the lottery!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's why there's the eight period. Also, people are going to come up with millions of roadblocks as to why we should keep the status quo. Most of them are self serving attempts to keep TJ an exclusive club for their own kids, not real concern.

Any concrete suggestions vs. wishful thinking?

[Anonymous]

The depot system just started a few years ago. It used to be neighborhood bus stops just like base schools. They cut it to save money and appease the crowd that hates Tj. I am sire they will find the money to add neighborhood bus stops back in if they get the demographics they’re hoping for.

[Anonymous]

" Most of them are self serving attempts to keep TJ an exclusive club for their own kids, not real concern. "

Has any school overwhelmed by an abundance of over-qualified candidates flipped 'legacy' by accepting no more than one applicant per lineage?

[Anonymous]

In my country there is a problem, and that problem is transportation.

I mean if those kids are going to end up working in STEM centers or job centers like Silicon Valley, they might as well learn to deal with the sh*tshow of transit early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The depot system just started a few years ago. It used to be neighborhood bus stops just like base schools. They cut it to save money and appease the crowd that hates Tj. I am sire they will find the money to add neighborhood bus stops back in if they get the demographics they’re hoping for.

It would be great if they could drive every child home. Otherwise it would be unfair if they only bring the poor kids to their homes. It took such an effort to pick up our child from the depot stop every afternoon. I was thinking about the OP’s question myself during the last few days. Not everyone has time to pick up a child in the afternoon or has money to outsource the pick up.

[Anonymous]

Everyone who goes to TJ faces the transportation problem. Fairfax county is large heavily populated and a traffic nightmare. It’s not just poor kids facing transportation issues: it’s almost everyone. TJ makes that clear at all orientations. It’s not a problem easily solved.