Did your kid not apply for to a college because of visit? Excellent School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I guess the thing that bothers me the MOST about the "perfect school" is that we've done virtual visits with other schools and NONE have treated us poorly except this particular one. The other one was larger and in the same state and treated us SO well and they were dealing with the exact same issues. We actually did back to back virtual visits (2 days in a row). The second school did a stellar job.

Isn't there a famous saying, "When people show you who they are believe them." I realize she didn't interact with the staff though and it was just the administration.

Do higher ranked schools "treat" prospective students worse? Is that a thing?

Another part to this is the whole experience is it feels like a flashback when I registered my DD for what I thought was the right private grade school. The administration was similarly snippy and my DD suffered many years before we realized it and made a change.

This is exactly why you visit schools in advance. The hope is that you come away with a deeper impression, formed more by experience than clever marketing. I think that you should pay attention to your feelings and the reality.
Once your kid is there they may be even less inclined to wine and dine her.
DO think back to how she felt at that private grade school. You fell for ranking once, and this time you should pay more attention to fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I guess the thing that bothers me the MOST about the "perfect school" is that we've done virtual visits with other schools and NONE have treated us poorly except this particular one. The other one was larger and in the same state and treated us SO well and they were dealing with the exact same issues. We actually did back to back virtual visits (2 days in a row). The second school did a stellar job.

Isn't there a famous saying, "When people show you who they are believe them." I realize she didn't interact with the staff though and it was just the administration.

Do higher ranked schools "treat" prospective students worse? Is that a thing?

Another part to this is the whole experience is it feels like a flashback when I registered my DD for what I thought was the right private grade school. The administration was similarly snippy and my DD suffered many years before we realized it and made a change.

I don’t know....now that you threw in the grade school experience, you seem a little sensitive.

[Anonymous]

PP- Maybe we are sensitive- that’s possible. I do know though the the school we transferred into years ago ended up being the right decision. It was like a night and day difference.

[Anonymous]

Our worst experience was at a large elite school (Cornell). Part of it was probably that we were used to the scale of a SLAC (which is what my child was leaning towards). But the contrast was glaring. Cornell's campus was like a city: right down to there being no parking, and what we finally found cost money! (Other schools had sent us parking passes in advance.) All other schools also provided coffee while we waited, while at Cornell there was not so much as an empty chair to sit on in the Admissions office. I think the elite schools feel like they do not need to curry favor because they are always oversubscribed.

Before you blast me, the education may well be excellent. But my DC AND I both appreciated the more curated experience offered by SLAC's (and she found that to continue after she enrolled).

[Anonymous]

OP, I won't even get into the virtual for prospective students since we are dealing with virtual orientation which is its own form of hell.

But yes we had visits where the college went off the list. The "perfect" college due to the color of the brick buildings. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

DC hated everything about Middlebury from the AD to the other families on the tour to what the guide had to say. It was picture perfect campus - I thought she would love it. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is interested in going into a very specific major. Researching schools in advance, we both thought one particular school would be “perfect” for her. Our experience with the school including the virtual visit was so bad that she’s thinking of not applying. On paper the university sounds great and has great reviews.

I’m just trying to reconcile this in my head with I am reading with what we experienced. We tried to make an appointment to visit the University back in Jan (pre-COVID). We started off on the wrong foot because we wanted to meet with an academic advisor in the department my DD will be majoring in. I called and got a very snippy receptionist who told us who to contact. DD contacted and didn’t hear back for a week. DD sent a follow up message requesting a meeting. Person setting up meeting with academic advisor made DD feel like she was impatient. FWIW- all the other schools she set up meetings with got back with her Within 24 to 48 hours. Due to COVID visit was understandably cancelled. They offered a virtual tour. It was horrible. The AV was poor, they had technical difficulties and we were unimpressed with the admission rep. We met with the academic advisor later and she cut of off and was downright rude. My daughter was in tears after the virtual visit.

I’m sure if I posted the name of the school people here would say that’s an amazing school For the major- yet our experience was anything but. The school went from being a top choice for DD to I don’t think I should apply.

I am just wondering if others had similar experiences with colleges letting them down pre-admissions but applied anyway and went. My thought is if they can’t treat DD well when she’s a prospective student, why should I think they will treat her any differently if she were to be accepted?

This is going to sound more harsh than it is meant, but your post reeks of entitlement. Universities are not structured or staffed to respond to the whims and demands of prospective students. Advisors and professors have their hands full serving their current students. No way they can also serve tens of thousands of needy prospective students. And then to cry after a poorly executed virtual visit in the middle of a global pandemic? That's some serious snowflake behavior. I would suggest telling your DD to put on her big girl pants, and make a decision based on bigger picture factors and not whether the school catered to her scheduling wishes and had slick AV.

[Anonymous]

Disagree. Universities are a business, all competing for the top (as well as full pay) students. If they do not treat them well, they will go elsewhere, with their tuition dollars.

Your attitude does, however, appear to reflect that of the school she is describing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our worst experience was at a large elite school (Cornell). Part of it was probably that we were used to the scale of a SLAC (which is what my child was leaning towards). But the contrast was glaring. Cornell's campus was like a city: right down to there being no parking, and what we finally found cost money! (Other schools had sent us parking passes in advance.) All other schools also provided coffee while we waited, while at Cornell there was not so much as an empty chair to sit on in the Admissions office. I think the elite schools feel like they do not need to curry favor because they are always oversubscribed.

Before you blast me, the education may well be excellent. But my DC AND I both appreciated the more curated experience offered by SLAC's (and she found that to continue after she enrolled).

I got my phd at Cornell which involved taking classes and working with faculty across four different schools. I also knew and interacted with grad students in other departments and we shared faculty experiences. The faculty at Cornell is just unbelievably amazing (for the most part). It is so far above what you would find at a SLAC that it's almost senseless to compare it. With that said, the administration and office workers are a mess (like at most top schools). When I was there, the entire financial aid office almost got fired (I think a couple people did) because they were FILLING OUT THE APPLICATIONS INCORRECTLY and approving loans to students who shouldn't have been eligible (it was NOT intentional - they were making the same mistake over and over and over again). Yes, you heard me. These people were literally too incompetent to fill out the one set of forms that the entire job revolved around. The finance and accounting office miscategorized my friend as a U.S. citizen instead of an immigrant in their tax withholding and it took two years to rectify the problem and get the improper THOUSANDS of dollars of withholding back (only after involving the university provost).

But, the education is PHENOMENAL. Please don't ever mistake being coddled at a SLAC for substituting for the quality of education being around far superior academic minds and classes that are at the cutting edge of their fields at an ivy league school. In some cases just one person in a department at Cornell could run circles around the entire same department at the best SLAC. And yes, many are willing to volunteer amazing amounts of time with students. You just need to accept that administrators and low level employees are often idiots. At a small school it's easier to see. But that doesn't mean the small school is better at being a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I guess the thing that bothers me the MOST about the "perfect school" is that we've done virtual visits with other schools and NONE have treated us poorly except this particular one. The other one was larger and in the same state and treated us SO well and they were dealing with the exact same issues. We actually did back to back virtual visits (2 days in a row). The second school did a stellar job.

Isn't there a famous saying, "When people show you who they are believe them." I realize she didn't interact with the staff though and it was just the administration.

Do higher ranked schools "treat" prospective students worse? Is that a thing?

Another part to this is the whole experience is it feels like a flashback when I registered my DD for what I thought was the right private grade school. The administration was similarly snippy and my DD suffered many years before we realized it and made a change.

This totally changes my opinion of your original post, OP. I think your DD definitely should NOT apply to the higher ranked school. They treated you poorly because you were being a pain in the ass. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our worst experience was at a large elite school (Cornell). Part of it was probably that we were used to the scale of a SLAC (which is what my child was leaning towards). But the contrast was glaring. Cornell's campus was like a city: right down to there being no parking, and what we finally found cost money! (Other schools had sent us parking passes in advance.) All other schools also provided coffee while we waited, while at Cornell there was not so much as an empty chair to sit on in the Admissions office. I think the elite schools feel like they do not need to curry favor because they are always oversubscribed.

Before you blast me, the education may well be excellent. But my DC AND I both appreciated the more curated experience offered by SLAC's (and she found that to continue after she enrolled).

I got my phd at Cornell which involved taking classes and working with faculty across four different schools. I also knew and interacted with grad students in other departments and we shared faculty experiences. The faculty at Cornell is just unbelievably amazing (for the most part). It is so far above what you would find at a SLAC that it's almost senseless to compare it. With that said, the administration and office workers are a mess (like at most top schools). When I was there, the entire financial aid office almost got fired (I think a couple people did) because they were FILLING OUT THE APPLICATIONS INCORRECTLY and approving loans to students who shouldn't have been eligible (it was NOT intentional - they were making the same mistake over and over and over again). Yes, you heard me. These people were literally too incompetent to fill out the one set of forms that the entire job revolved around. The finance and accounting office miscategorized my friend as a U.S. citizen instead of an immigrant in their tax withholding and it took two years to rectify the problem and get the improper THOUSANDS of dollars of withholding back (only after involving the university provost).

But, the education is PHENOMENAL. Please don't ever mistake being coddled at a SLAC for substituting for the quality of education being around far superior academic minds and classes that are at the cutting edge of their fields at an ivy league school. In some cases just one person in a department at Cornell could run circles around the entire same department at the best SLAC. And yes, many are willing to volunteer amazing amounts of time with students. You just need to accept that administrators and low level employees are often idiots. At a small school it's easier to see. But that doesn't mean the small school is better at being a school.

I think my last point was confusingly written. I mean, at a small school they can more easily identify employees who are incompetent and replace them with more competent ones. But that has nothing to do with the main point of a university which is to educate.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't sweat it - if she feels more comfortable at the safety, go with that! Who cares about school ranking. If she got a bad vibe (from whomever) then skip it. Especially since you have had a prior experience that was similar. If she's happy with safety, go with it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our worst experience was at a large elite school (Cornell). Part of it was probably that we were used to the scale of a SLAC (which is what my child was leaning towards). But the contrast was glaring. Cornell's campus was like a city: right down to there being no parking, and what we finally found cost money! (Other schools had sent us parking passes in advance.) All other schools also provided coffee while we waited, while at Cornell there was not so much as an empty chair to sit on in the Admissions office. I think the elite schools feel like they do not need to curry favor because they are always oversubscribed.

Before you blast me, the education may well be excellent. But my DC AND I both appreciated the more curated experience offered by SLAC's (and she found that to continue after she enrolled).

I got my phd at Cornell which involved taking classes and working with faculty across four different schools. I also knew and interacted with grad students in other departments and we shared faculty experiences. The faculty at Cornell is just unbelievably amazing (for the most part). It is so far above what you would find at a SLAC that it's almost senseless to compare it. With that said, the administration and office workers are a mess (like at most top schools). When I was there, the entire financial aid office almost got fired (I think a couple people did) because they were FILLING OUT THE APPLICATIONS INCORRECTLY and approving loans to students who shouldn't have been eligible (it was NOT intentional - they were making the same mistake over and over and over again). Yes, you heard me. These people were literally too incompetent to fill out the one set of forms that the entire job revolved around. The finance and accounting office miscategorized my friend as a U.S. citizen instead of an immigrant in their tax withholding and it took two years to rectify the problem and get the improper THOUSANDS of dollars of withholding back (only after involving the university provost).

But, the education is PHENOMENAL. Please don't ever mistake being coddled at a SLAC for substituting for the quality of education being around far superior academic minds and classes that are at the cutting edge of their fields at an ivy league school. In some cases just one person in a department at Cornell could run circles around the entire same department at the best SLAC. And yes, many are willing to volunteer amazing amounts of time with students. You just need to accept that administrators and low level employees are often idiots. At a small school it's easier to see. But that doesn't mean the small school is better at being a school.

I think my last point was confusingly written. I mean, at a small school they can more easily identify employees who are incompetent and replace them with more competent ones. But that has nothing to do with the main point of a university which is to educate.

There are big schools that have great faculties, student bodies, AND administrations. That's why they are more highly regarded than Cornell.

And the best environment for Ph. D students doesn't necessarily translate into what is best for undergraduate education.

[Anonymous]

<<I got my phd at Cornell >>

World of difference from being an undergrad. Tier 1 research schools exist to get grants and churn out peer-reviewed papers, that will bring honor (and more grants) to the school. Doctoral students are very much part of achieving those goals. (And this is coming from a tenured professor.)

The previous poster admitted that elite schools may well have amazing education, but they do not offer UNDERGRADUATES the individual attention that SLAC schools do. My DC is publishing her second peer-reviewed paper this summer, as a sophomore at a SLAC. At Cornell, that opportunity would probably go to a grad student.

My DC hopes to attend a Cornell-like grad school, but is VERY content with her choice for an undergrad environment. No one has to be RIGHT in this discussion...different options offer different benefits and disadvantages. Depending upon the student, they can all offer a great education.

[Anonymous]

Since my kid's original list was so long, I was happy every time she eliminated a possibilty (especially when I knew it was a school that would probably have rejected her anyway!).

Examples of schools that went downhill, based upon the visit:

Swarthmore
Bates
Colby
Allegheny
Ursinus
Vassar
Connecticut College

Schools that went up in her estimation:

Bowdoin
Mount Holyoke
Juniata
Davidson

Great schools on both lists, so let's not get into a shouting fest. But the kid's view should carry the day in this decision. They are the ones who have to move there, put it on the resume for the rest of their lives, maybe take out loans to attend. Spend hours and years working and socializing there.

I highly encourage visits when we are past the Corona era. Sleep overs really sealed the deal for some also. Best of luck everyone!