pros and cons of CES?
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Anonymous
I agree with all of this, unfortunately, because it shouldn't require a kid to be at a CES program to get this type of education. I would consider the CCES CES program on par, academically, with the best private schools in the area. It's still MCPS with the same facilities, bureaucracy, etc., but the core classes - reading, writing, social studies/science and math - are right up there. And, yes, I realize that math is not formally part of the program, but it effectively is because the CES kids at CCES all take compacted math together with one of the CES teachers dedicated to the program, and it's been one of the best parts of the experience for our DC. It might be the same compacted math curriculum, but the math teachers have not hesitated to go deeper into each area and really make the subject come alive, and assign projects that keep the kids engaged. Also, the homework at CCES hasn't been heavy at all, although your kids has to like reading as the PP noted. Most of the work is done during the school hours. Long term projects do take time, organization and focus. |
Anonymous
| Will compacted math continue under Eureka? |
Anonymous
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For my CES older kid (currently in 6th grade), it was a LOT of work at home in the 4th grade, but most work was done in school during 5th grade. In particular, the beginning of 4th grade was tough because our DD was playing catchup from having been at a sub-par elementary for the 4 years prior. We know at least one family who chose not to have their child attend a magnet middle (after being accepted) because they thought their child was too stressed at the CES.
However, you should really talk to someone with a current CES 4th or 5th grader. Both parents and CES teachers have said that a lot has changed since the "outlier" screening system. Last year's 4th grade (current 5th graders) at our CES had quite a few kids who were below grade level in reading, had all kinds of behavioral issues, were more math-oriented than in previous years (probably due to the COGAT overall score being used as the screener, instead of just verbal), and were frustrated because they were not interested in humanities as much as math. In general, the class had to move more slowly than in past years. (I haven't talked to anyone about this year's 4th grade crop, or how they're doing in 5th grade.) The compact math still mixes in kids from the local school, and the difficulty can vary by teacher. There's still the long bus ride (50 minutes in our case, after having lived in walking distance from our home school) and losing almost all old elementary school friends. We did aftercare at the CES school, which meant that we had to commute home from there quite late every evening. Don't expect that those friendships will be rekindled later when they go back to middle school. 2 years is a long time, especially at that age, and they will be very different people by middle school. Even in middle school, my DS only maintains regular contact with the few who are at the magnet with him, and only occasionally joins the group texts with other CES alums. In our case, our home elementary school was not good, so we welcomed the CES as being the only available enrichment. On the other hand, we do know at least one person who turned down the CES from that school and still ended up at a magnet middle. |
Anonymous
Yes. |
Anonymous
Maybe. School said yesterday they had not been told yes or no yet. |
Anonymous
| Anyway have recent experience with the CES at Piney Branch? |
Anonymous
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Current CCES parent here. I think it depends a lot on your home school. It's hard for me to compare because our home school has been piloting the enriched humanities program, so my child keeps saying his friends from the home school are doing a lot of the same things. I think it is marginally better at the CES, but not wildly so. The kids are all bright, but so were most of the kids at our home school, so I haven't found the peer group to be that wildly different either. If your home school is good and is doing differentiation at the 4-5 grade level, it might not be that much of a difference.
Also, I think it's a real negative to change peer groups TWICE in a 3 year period. At least from our CES, almost none of the kids get into the MS with the new weighted system. There were very few kids that went to the CES from our HS cluster (which I think is the farthest geographically from the CES, so that might be part of that), so I think there's only one of my kid's friends from CES will be going to MS with my kid. We've put a fair amount of work into making sure we didn't lose all the neighborhood friends over these two years, so I hope it won't be too terrible a transition. I think the transition back to MS might be a little rougher for girls than boys because girls tend to be more "all in" on friendships at that age, and I can see a girl getting dropped from her home school friend group if she's at a different school for two years. I think a two year program is just really not ideal. Also, I've found it hard as a parent to get very invested in a school where my kid would only be for 2 year. We were pretty involved in the community for our home school, but I really don't feel that way, even though I did volunteer for some stuff and go to the back to school picnic -- the problem is that the neighborhood parents all already know each other so it's slow going , and then by the time you feel like you know any of the parents or the teachers/administrators, you are done. So those are my thoughts. I think we're glad we did it, but I don't think it's necessarily a clear cut decision. It's not like you're choosing between Harvard and the local community college. |
Anonymous
This is a thread from last year, but has some insight. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/796266.page |
Anonymous
I have had kids in both, and there is no comparison. |
Anonymous
They are completely different programs. It depends what you and your kid are interested in. |
Anonymous
Understood, but PP commented that immersion is challenging. For a gifted kid, the challenges of immersion (such as they are in fourth grade) do not compare to the challenges of the CES. |
Anonymous
Things are improving, depending on one's perspective. Our DC is at CCES CES, too, and two years ago (spring 2018), it was true that virtually none of the CES kids got into the MS magnets. The principal specifically addressed that question at the open house for new-invited kids, and said that it was one or two kids, and then another off the waitlist (or something to that effect). You could tell she was disturbed about it. I believe that was the first year that the county added the "cohort" criteria to the selection process, and for whatever reason, it really did impact the kids at the CCES CES program. There were rumors that kids were being compared to their CES peers, so of course there was a cohort there, but I haven't seen anything confirming that. I'm not sure what the pre-change numbers were, but at least 5 kids in DC's class were accepted at both MS magnets, and we know of a few who were accepted to on or the other. But for kids in MS/HS clusters where the schools generally are strong, it appears you needed to be 99% national and MCPS (and MCPS is a misleading percentage because the county subdivided the county based on FARMS percentage, so kids were compared only with others in their FARMS band), and very high raw scores. The CCES CES program certainly isn't a feeder for the MS magnets, but probably more so than a home ES. I don't think it should impact a decision to attend any CES program, because the majority of kids are going back to their home MS after the program, and that's likely been true all along. |
Anonymous
+1 My child isn't at CCES but is at another regional CES and the situation was very different this year than two years ago. This year's 7th graders were the first group to go through the universal screening process and it did seem like being at a CES counted against those kids. That changed with last year's class (this year's 6th graders) and is even more apparent with this year's 5th graders. Out of 50 kids, I was aware of maybe 15 who were admitted to one of the two magnets (or both) before quarantine and my child reports at least four more kids in her peer group were accepted from the wait list. |
Anonymous
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Pros: The cohort, the cohort and the cohort. (They aren't perfectly behaved, but they're quick learners) If you have a school with ELC, the center is more fun, because the cohort still moves faster so they have fun projects built into the curriculum like plays and living museums and Ted Talks. The ELC is good instruction, but it is dry with no fun built into the curriculum - some fun added by teacher, if they have time.
Cons: Logistics! Many variations on logistics: The bus is mentioned frequently, but there are other logistical downsides. Hard to get together socially other than for special occasions like weekend birthday parties because of geographic spread of kids. Some separation from home school friends inveitable. Kids scattered to the winds for so many middle schools after CES. During this pandemic, it has been very apparent that the birthday parade we recently attended for a CES kids was filled with the home neighborhood friends (who happen to be a great group) rather than a bunch of CES kids |
Anonymous
I don't think that 5 number is true for round 1. You may be talking about some kids who got off the wait list. I have a child who got into one and there was exactly one child who was at one the other open house who was going to the next open house. There were some kids who were bragging they got in but they didn't. We heard from the teachers it was a hard year and some of the top students did not get in anywhere in round 1. |