Harvard or Columbia - Where would you go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

I'm not sh#tting on the university at all. But if you're looking for intense academics and to be around a crowd of savants, it's not at Harvard undergrad.

I ran around the crowd at Harvard that literally funds the school. We are talking annual donations of 6 and 7-figures. A sizable portion of the class is there through sheer financial firepower and they are more prominent at Harvard than most other US universities. There are also legit frictions between that element of Harvard and the students who got there through raw intellect. Some students move easily between those two crowds, but for many others it's like oil and water.

I will say that the smartest and nicest people I met who came out of Harvard were those from middle class backgrounds who ended up pledging Final Clubs. They didn't go into finance, but instead end up at CIA, DoJ, and other public facing jobs. It was an interesting and noticeable trend.

As a legacy, alum and a parent you are full of yourself and know a small group of people!! Most students are not in final clubs!! Most students are not legacies and most are not rich.

Instead of attacking someone, why don't you just comment on the OP's post who started this thread? Obviously every person is going to have a different experience at ANY university.

There are legit differences at Harvard and Columbia. Try providing some insight on your personal experience instead of posting hyperbolic attacks that contribute nothing to a parent who is soliciting information.

What’s the point when this guy who knows a women and her friends post a page?
Harvard is not easy and most students work hard. But it is a lively place to go to school, has lots of traditions and many fun activities. Besides the final clubs (which have financial aid and a diverse membership now), there is the crimson, the lampoon and a host of other clubs or activities that students who participate form life long bonds. Think late night comedy and think lampoon. There are also wonderful professors and the school will fund just about anything you want to study. They may even make a class for two students with an interest. If you are smart you will be able to work directly for top professors on research that can lead to permanent jobs. The entire institutions goal is to make your experience good and there are a ton of adults of all kinds there to help with whatever issue you have.

It’s a residential college so you know most people. All freshman live in one part of the campus so you know your class. Many people marry classmates. The percentage of rich/legacies decreases every year and the percentage of first gen increases. It really is not a huge issue because everyone lives together and all dorm rooms cost the same. Everyone pays for food and there are no suites with kitchens= everyone eats together unless you are rich enough that your parents don’t care about buying two dinners. Kids pick roommates for sophomore year and there is little movement of rooming groups after sophomore year.

Most kids do not do semesters abroad or take time off. You come and go with your class so in general parents pay for 4 years. There is no crazy pressure because most students have little to prove and everyone is getting into grad school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Boston is a great college town.

Not if you're black,. Every single one of my black friends who has been to Boston has experienced racism.

Sadly that is American colleges in many states and towns.

[Anonymous]

OP I would choose Harvard over Columbia. And I'd recommend the same to my kids. If when I was college age I'd had the choice between these two, I'd have definitely chosen Columbia for the location and the opportunities that Manhattan offered. But 20 years later, no, I'd opt for the quieter town (ok marginally).

[Anonymous]

Harvard, from an overseas perspective. We lived in Asia and it is said "Harvard" is probably the most valuable 'brand name' in all of Asia. It's an instant door opener in the business community in some countries.

I think I'd also rather be a student in Cambridge than in New York. I love NY, but the idea of four years there in 'student mode' would be a bit rough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

Thanks for the input! Final Clubs crowd is something DS is wary of. His interviewer told him about the "other" culture, and he's still debating how much it actually matters (in general and to him). The same interviewer also warned him that the academic environment is really what you make of it.

I'm pretty sure I've heard him mutter "do I want to sell my soul to finance" just last night, haha! It's undeniably lucrative, but for a family like ours, that scene is still an abstract concept.

This is absolutely true. And keep in mind that Columbia doesn't provide your son with that option.

As someone who works in the financial sector, the "sell your soul" aspect is really what you make of it. If your son is tech inclined, he should consider quantitative finance. It's waaaaaaaaaay less bro'y and mostly composed of PhD mathematicians, statisticians, and computer scientists who look for arbitrage opportunities or other price trends. Alternatively, he can go on the research side of the bank, explore working for a financial regulator (excellent work-life balance and pay is solid), or asset management. There's so many areas of finance that a person who is quasi-interested in the sector can find a niche that suits their personality.

But I totally understand that it's an "abstract concept" at the age of 18. I was in the same boat at his age (tho I did not have an offer from Harvard!)

This was very helpful, thank you! DS was wondering if some of the "less bro'y" sides of these finance sub-sectors tend to also be involved in more humanities related subjects? For example, international relations, development, the like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I would choose Harvard over Columbia. And I'd recommend the same to my kids. If when I was college age I'd had the choice between these two, I'd have definitely chosen Columbia for the location and the opportunities that Manhattan offered. But 20 years later, no, I'd opt for the quieter town (ok marginally).

OP here. Mind asking why you made the switch? Is it just the location factor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, from an overseas perspective. We lived in Asia and it is said "Harvard" is probably the most valuable 'brand name' in all of Asia. It's an instant door opener in the business community in some countries.

I think I'd also rather be a student in Cambridge than in New York. I love NY, but the idea of four years there in 'student mode' would be a bit rough.

That's interesting! We're a rather "Americanized" Asian family, so what we know about the Asian perspective on name brands has really only been hearsay. And yes, NYC really is quite overwhelming. DS's main concern is if all his Columbia classmates opt for NYC-based socializing instead of on-campus fun.

[Anonymous]

I would certainly not do Engineering at Harvard. That would be a bad idea

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly not do Engineering at Harvard. That would be a bad idea

Terrible advice. Harvard engineering is ABET certified, which is where the rubber meets the road:

https://www.seas.harvard.edu/about-us/school-overview/accreditation-abet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard.

(And I went there, and hated it. )

I’m not the OP, but I’d love to hear more about why you hated it. The Harvard boosters are willing to always speak out because, duh, they loved Harvard and are generally the loudest voices in the room. It would be good to get some more nuanced views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, from an overseas perspective. We lived in Asia and it is said "Harvard" is probably the most valuable 'brand name' in all of Asia. It's an instant door opener in the business community in some countries.

I think I'd also rather be a student in Cambridge than in New York. I love NY, but the idea of four years there in 'student mode' would be a bit rough.

That's interesting! We're a rather "Americanized" Asian family, so what we know about the Asian perspective on name brands has really only been hearsay. And yes, NYC really is quite overwhelming. DS's main concern is if all his Columbia classmates opt for NYC-based socializing instead of on-campus fun.

As a white man who lived and worked in China, if you have Harvard on your resume basically any door is opened to you. Very strong network of alumni in the region and you get immediate acceptance into a very elite circle of policy makers and business leaders. It’s absolutely crazy how much currency you can get out of Harvard undergrad if you’re living and working in the China sphere of influence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly not do Engineering at Harvard. That would be a bad idea

Terrible advice. Harvard engineering is ABET certified, which is where the rubber meets the road:

https://www.seas.harvard.edu/about-us/school-overview/accreditation-abet

Uhm, good advice? Harvard only has six departments and 1/2 aren’t abet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would certainly not do Engineering at Harvard. That would be a bad idea

Terrible advice. Harvard engineering is ABET certified, which is where the rubber meets the road:

https://www.seas.harvard.edu/about-us/school-overview/accreditation-abet

Uhm, good advice? Harvard only has six departments and 1/2 aren’t abet.

No, bad advice since the post quoted at top didn't mention that at all, which is why I posted the link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS is still trying to get over the shock of getting into both incredible schools. Commitment deadline is coming soon, and while the decision is his entirely, I was curious to see what insight people might give.

DS has flip-flopped between engineering and liberal arts for over a year now. If he goes to Columbia, he'll do engineering for sure (with a minor in humanities, probably). If he goes to Harvard, everything's up in the air.

Costs are very similar.

Congrats! Don't you have to specify your intended majors in the application to Harvard? Harvard doesn't have engineering, so I guess everyone is in one big college. Go to Harvard for liberal arts and Columbia for Engineering.

[Anonymous]

Always Harvard. Unless, Stanford.