Harvard or Columbia - Where would you go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Boston is a great college town.

It's beautiful! DS found NYC to be very exciting, but a bit overwhelming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

[Anonymous]

Harvard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

If you don't mind me asking, what field are you in? I'm not so naive as to think names don't matter, but DS was wondering about the comparative weakness of engineering/STEM programs at a liberal arts college.

Legal field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

Thanks for the input! Final Clubs crowd is something DS is wary of. His interviewer told him about the "other" culture, and he's still debating how much it actually matters (in general and to him). The same interviewer also warned him that the academic environment is really what you make of it.

I'm pretty sure I've heard him mutter "do I want to sell my soul to finance" just last night, haha! It's undeniably lucrative, but for a family like ours, that scene is still an abstract concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

I'm not sh#tting on the university at all. But if you're looking for intense academics and to be around a crowd of savants, it's not at Harvard undergrad.

I ran around the crowd at Harvard that literally funds the school. We are talking annual donations of 6 and 7-figures. A sizable portion of the class is there through sheer financial firepower and they are more prominent at Harvard than most other US universities. There are also legit frictions between that element of Harvard and the students who got there through raw intellect. Some students move easily between those two crowds, but for many others it's like oil and water.

I will say that the smartest and nicest people I met who came out of Harvard were those from middle class backgrounds who ended up pledging Final Clubs. They didn't go into finance, but instead end up at CIA, DoJ, and other public facing jobs. It was an interesting and noticeable trend.

[Anonymous]

Harvard all day long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

Thanks for the input! Final Clubs crowd is something DS is wary of. His interviewer told him about the "other" culture, and he's still debating how much it actually matters (in general and to him). The same interviewer also warned him that the academic environment is really what you make of it.

I'm pretty sure I've heard him mutter "do I want to sell my soul to finance" just last night, haha! It's undeniably lucrative, but for a family like ours, that scene is still an abstract concept.

This is absolutely true. And keep in mind that Columbia doesn't provide your son with that option.

As someone who works in the financial sector, the "sell your soul" aspect is really what you make of it. If your son is tech inclined, he should consider quantitative finance. It's waaaaaaaaaay less bro'y and mostly composed of PhD mathematicians, statisticians, and computer scientists who look for arbitrage opportunities or other price trends. Alternatively, he can go on the research side of the bank, explore working for a financial regulator (excellent work-life balance and pay is solid), or asset management. There's so many areas of finance that a person who is quasi-interested in the sector can find a niche that suits their personality.

But I totally understand that it's an "abstract concept" at the age of 18. I was in the same boat at his age (tho I did not have an offer from Harvard!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

Not sure what your last sentence meant, but I agree that PP wrote a very long post that implied some unique insight, based on what appear to be anecdotes and a lack of direct experience.

I don't think Harvard or Columbia come close to offering the best undergraduate education in the country, compared to several other Ivies and SLACs, but between the two you aren't going to find many who wouldn't pick Harvard over Columbia, for all the reasons OP likely already knows - greater resources, a more prestigious name, a larger campus, and a location that's chock full of college students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Boston is a great college town.

Not if you're black,. Every single one of my black friends who has been to Boston has experienced racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Boston is a great college town.

Not if you're black,. Every single one of my black friends who has been to Boston has experienced racism.

Here we go again...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Boston is a great college town.

Not if you're black,. Every single one of my black friends who has been to Boston has experienced racism.

White person here who lived in Boston: it's hella racist. That said, you're fine when you stick around Cambridge. White racist townies don't drink in Cambridge. All bets are off when you venture elsewhere, however. Especially if Boston sports fans have been drinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

I'm not sh#tting on the university at all. But if you're looking for intense academics and to be around a crowd of savants, it's not at Harvard undergrad.

I ran around the crowd at Harvard that literally funds the school. We are talking annual donations of 6 and 7-figures. A sizable portion of the class is there through sheer financial firepower and they are more prominent at Harvard than most other US universities. There are also legit frictions between that element of Harvard and the students who got there through raw intellect. Some students move easily between those two crowds, but for many others it's like oil and water.

I will say that the smartest and nicest people I met who came out of Harvard were those from middle class backgrounds who ended up pledging Final Clubs. They didn't go into finance, but instead end up at CIA, DoJ, and other public facing jobs. It was an interesting and noticeable trend.

As a legacy, alum and a parent you are full of yourself and know a small group of people!! Most students are not in final clubs!! Most students are not legacies and most are not rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd probably go to Harvard. We can debate whether it should be true, but I've done enough hiring at this point to know that having that word on your resume is a huge difference maker.

Ditto. It's a leg up in life and is massively helpful if your son ever desires to work overseas. Instant credibility, even though it's not deserved IMHO. Columbia and Harvard are diametrically opposite experiences.

I've worked with and spent a lot of time around the Harvard crowd - my ex went there and I'm still close with much of their network, spent a lot of time around the Final Clubs crowd. Out of the hundreds of Harvard folks I've met, I'd say less than 20% really wowed me with their intellectual prowess. Harvard churns out a lot of grad with solid 'soft skills.' Most are wealthy kids who have successful parents and ride those connections into finance, law, politics, or med school. To be frank, the vast majority of Harvard grads are not any better than those who go to Duke, NYU, U of Michigan, or any other selective college. There also continues to be a vert strong tradition at Harvard that it's a "finishing school" for young wealthy women who intend to drop out of the work force by the time they are 30. Take that for what you will.

If your son wants a career in finance, he should absolutely go to Harvard. There is no reason for him to ever get an MBA after Harvard. All the individuals I know who went to Harvard undergrad and straight into finance did well and did not bother with MBAs. A few are partners at Goldman, but most end up at smaller boutique firms in leadership roles or running their family office. All are making high 6 figures or low 7 figures annually. The crowd I know graduated right after the tech downturn, so there are less of those folks in my network. I know that more recent classes do well at placing grads in established tech giants - Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc where soft skills now matter more than raw coding talent.

I'm consistently impressed with people who went to Yale, MIT, and Smith College. I've never met a slacker or dummy who came out of either of those schools. I can't say the same about Harvard undergrad.

You did not attend Harvard correct? Your ex wife was primarily in the final club circle correct? So basically you know some people from 5% of the student body and have generalized the whole place. What is wrong with you??? Is you goal to shit on your ex’s world?? That microcosm is not “Harvard”. Moreover,
Your access meant of people appears extreme.

I'm not sh#tting on the university at all. But if you're looking for intense academics and to be around a crowd of savants, it's not at Harvard undergrad.

I ran around the crowd at Harvard that literally funds the school. We are talking annual donations of 6 and 7-figures. A sizable portion of the class is there through sheer financial firepower and they are more prominent at Harvard than most other US universities. There are also legit frictions between that element of Harvard and the students who got there through raw intellect. Some students move easily between those two crowds, but for many others it's like oil and water.

I will say that the smartest and nicest people I met who came out of Harvard were those from middle class backgrounds who ended up pledging Final Clubs. They didn't go into finance, but instead end up at CIA, DoJ, and other public facing jobs. It was an interesting and noticeable trend.

As a legacy, alum and a parent you are full of yourself and know a small group of people!! Most students are not in final clubs!! Most students are not legacies and most are not rich.

Instead of attacking someone, why don't you just comment on the OP's post who started this thread? Obviously every person is going to have a different experience at ANY university.

There are legit differences at Harvard and Columbia. Try providing some insight on your personal experience instead of posting hyperbolic attacks that contribute nothing to a parent who is soliciting information.

[Anonymous]

Harvard.

(And I went there, and hated it. )