U12 girls Herndon Youth Soccer All-Star Tournament on November 16-17th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is scouting these tournaments for anything other than wondering if a club can get its kids from rec to travel. No one is scouting in general. I mean really ... "So your child seems good, you've opted not to do travel in your club ... would you like to commute further and pay more to play travel with our club?" ???

Exactly! But I think the scouting comment was made in jest and to mock the OP. No one wants to discuss a random rec age group, especially as old as u12, where any extraordinary talent would already be siphoned off to travel.

Pretty sure that's in jest. Let's face it - at U8, most of the kids there are travel quality. At U9, probably about one-third to one-half of the kids could play travel. Once you get to U10, it's maybe one to two kids per team at best who could be playing low to mid level travel. All the talent more or less gets siphoned off after U9. The U8 age group is the only one at a rec all star tournament with all the best players in tact still.

Well as you know, there are clubs with so many travel teams that just about anyone can make a travel team if they wanted, I would have to say that more than 2 kids per team U10 and older can play on a travel team, but I get your point. But you just never know what you'll get. last year, I refereed several U12 boys games and there were some teams that would definitely beat some weaker travel teams. There were some very, very good players out there. Maybe can't play travel due to cost, logistics, prefers another sport, etc. Never know what you'll get. But yes, I agree with your thoughts on the U8s.

Why won't the clubs allow All-star vs travel scrimmage games? (unless some do; I have never heard of one in the area).

Scrimmages are, by definition, un-sanctioned un-ranked practice games. Nothing is stopping any Rec coach from reaching out to a travel coach to set up a scrimmage. But the Herndon All-Stars is a Rec soccer tournament and as such, including travel teams would go against the intent and competitive balance of the tournament.

Absolutely no question about that. I think we all agree they should be separate - as far as games. I only asked about scrimmages - because I personally believe some all-star teams might well beat local travel teams (although the question is completely academic, until someone actually arranges a scrimmage).

Your response raises another, unpleasant possibility: travel "ringers" in All-stars. My hope is that such instances do not exist.

Would never happen because the rec parents of the other players on that team would not stand for it. Rec people aren't insane like travel people.

Now, some people dislike including "Academy" teams in Rec tournaments since they aren't really rec but I don't know if Herndon lets Academy teams participate or not.

LOL, ok. Rec parents can be far worse than travel parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is scouting these tournaments for anything other than wondering if a club can get its kids from rec to travel. No one is scouting in general. I mean really ... "So your child seems good, you've opted not to do travel in your club ... would you like to commute further and pay more to play travel with our club?" ???

Exactly! But I think the scouting comment was made in jest and to mock the OP. No one wants to discuss a random rec age group, especially as old as u12, where any extraordinary talent would already be siphoned off to travel.

I hope all this is in jest. It's kids playing rec soccer, for pete's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is scouting these tournaments for anything other than wondering if a club can get its kids from rec to travel. No one is scouting in general. I mean really ... "So your child seems good, you've opted not to do travel in your club ... would you like to commute further and pay more to play travel with our club?" ???

Exactly! But I think the scouting comment was made in jest and to mock the OP. No one wants to discuss a random rec age group, especially as old as u12, where any extraordinary talent would already be siphoned off to travel.

Pretty sure that's in jest. Let's face it - at U8, most of the kids there are travel quality. At U9, probably about one-third to one-half of the kids could play travel. Once you get to U10, it's maybe one to two kids per team at best who could be playing low to mid level travel. All the talent more or less gets siphoned off after U9. The U8 age group is the only one at a rec all star tournament with all the best players in tact still.

Well as you know, there are clubs with so many travel teams that just about anyone can make a travel team if they wanted, I would have to say that more than 2 kids per team U10 and older can play on a travel team, but I get your point. But you just never know what you'll get. last year, I refereed several U12 boys games and there were some teams that would definitely beat some weaker travel teams. There were some very, very good players out there. Maybe can't play travel due to cost, logistics, prefers another sport, etc. Never know what you'll get. But yes, I agree with your thoughts on the U8s.

Why won't the clubs allow All-star vs travel scrimmage games? (unless some do; I have never heard of one in the area).

Scrimmages are, by definition, un-sanctioned un-ranked practice games. Nothing is stopping any Rec coach from reaching out to a travel coach to set up a scrimmage. But the Herndon All-Stars is a Rec soccer tournament and as such, including travel teams would go against the intent and competitive balance of the tournament.

Absolutely no question about that. I think we all agree they should be separate - as far as games. I only asked about scrimmages - because I personally believe some all-star teams might well beat local travel teams (although the question is completely academic, until someone actually arranges a scrimmage).

Your response raises another, unpleasant possibility: travel "ringers" in All-stars. My hope is that such instances do not exist.

Would never happen because the rec parents of the other players on that team would not stand for it. Rec people aren't insane like travel people.

Now, some people dislike including "Academy" teams in Rec tournaments since they aren't really rec but I don't know if Herndon lets Academy teams participate or not.

LOL, ok. Rec parents can be far worse than travel parents.

Anything's possible. I had two play travel for a few years each and one play rec all the way up to high school. Rec parents overall were much, much less insane. Your experience may be different.

[Anonymous]

My kids have participated in this tournament for several years and it has always been well-run and fun. Looking forward to this weekend (but not the cold!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is scouting these tournaments for anything other than wondering if a club can get its kids from rec to travel. No one is scouting in general. I mean really ... "So your child seems good, you've opted not to do travel in your club ... would you like to commute further and pay more to play travel with our club?" ???

Exactly! But I think the scouting comment was made in jest and to mock the OP. No one wants to discuss a random rec age group, especially as old as u12, where any extraordinary talent would already be siphoned off to travel.

I hope all this is in jest. It's kids playing rec soccer, for pete's sake.

Well, it is in truth rec, and not the exalted "travel" soccer.

But I like to think of it as "rec +" since selection for the teams is by try-out, and the only time the team actually plays is during the All-Star tournament.

Not every talented player is on a travel team, you know. And there are many, many reasons not to choose travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Loudoun will be kicking ass and taking names watch ?

In this age group, one of the GFRS teams has consistently finished in 2nd or 1st in past All-Stars, along with McLean.

But in the recent Friendship League tournament, a Springfield rec team came out on top by a wide margin. Not sure how many of those players are on their All Stars team. I would not dismiss this year's Springfield team's chances.

the 3 GFR teams in SFL top division only lost 3 games over 30 games in season and tournament, 2 of those 3 losses were to GFR teams. Chantilly beat them once.

those teams should be able to do well along with Loudoun SYC may be good too, hard to tell with uneven scheduling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is scouting these tournaments for anything other than wondering if a club can get its kids from rec to travel. No one is scouting in general. I mean really ... "So your child seems good, you've opted not to do travel in your club ... would you like to commute further and pay more to play travel with our club?" ???

Exactly! But I think the scouting comment was made in jest and to mock the OP. No one wants to discuss a random rec age group, especially as old as u12, where any extraordinary talent would already be siphoned off to travel.

Pretty sure that's in jest. Let's face it - at U8, most of the kids there are travel quality. At U9, probably about one-third to one-half of the kids could play travel. Once you get to U10, it's maybe one to two kids per team at best who could be playing low to mid level travel. All the talent more or less gets siphoned off after U9. The U8 age group is the only one at a rec all star tournament with all the best players in tact still.

simply not true, although agree that there is a natural siphoning off
I think people paying travel like to think that some natural selection has occurred to verify and validify their expense/self esteem
reality is you can't identify all talent at U8-U12 as it hasnt all developed linearly

there is a girl in U13 playing in this tournament who is very talented, parent played professionally in Latin america, she has played on boys academy teams in Latin America and is very technical and good, she plays with her friends on a SFL team that perenially loses. She is an exceptional noticeable talent. There are lots of similar situations and other talented players that do not play travel for many different reasons.

parents that are former elite players do not always need/afford travel dynamics at these ages

[Anonymous]

wow there sees to be a lot of interest in a U12 allstar rec tournament

good luck

[Anonymous]

so if mclean rec beats loudoun rec then does that
prove mclean club is better than loudoun club?

is that what is at stake? do the kids understand the responsibility on them in these games?

[Anonymous]

this is a great thread. Satire at its best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:so if mclean rec beats loudoun rec then does that
prove mclean club is better than loudoun club?

is that what is at stake? do the kids understand the responsibility on them in these games?

I am not sure if it necessarily proves one team is consistently better than the other. Its only one weekend; single elimination on Sunday. Things happen.


As far as "responsibility" on them, I think U12 All-Star players do understand they are responsible for doing their very best for their team on tournament weekend. And that is perfectly OK at this level.

The only part I feel terrible about are the shootouts; there is just so much pressure on the poor goalies; and I have seen players leave the field in tears when their shots went wide and missed the goal entirely. I don't have a better suggestion for deciding ties; just pointing out all the pressure and attention on those 2 players at that moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so if mclean rec beats loudoun rec then does that
prove mclean club is better than loudoun club?

is that what is at stake? do the kids understand the responsibility on them in these games?

I am not sure if it necessarily proves one team is consistently better than the other. Its only one weekend; single elimination on Sunday. Things happen.


As far as "responsibility" on them, I think U12 All-Star players do understand they are responsible for doing their very best for their team on tournament weekend. And that is perfectly OK at this level.

The only part I feel terrible about are the shootouts; there is just so much pressure on the poor goalies; and I have seen players leave the field in tears when their shots went wide and missed the goal entirely. I don't have a better suggestion for deciding ties; just pointing out all the pressure and attention on those 2 players at that moment.

I have often thought that the shootouts should be performed by parents rather than kids.
I think each coach should be able to pick 5 parents from the OPPOSING team to shoot along with a keeper parent - much like basketball when a free throw shooter is injured the opposing coach picks the shooter

To me, this would be appropriate, no pressure on the kids as they played a fair tie.
To the parents that obsessively care, and have obnoxiously been screaming all game long, they get to take the field and disappoint their children
and the kids get to see their parents are'nt very good

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so if mclean rec beats loudoun rec then does that
prove mclean club is better than loudoun club?

is that what is at stake? do the kids understand the responsibility on them in these games?

I am not sure if it necessarily proves one team is consistently better than the other. Its only one weekend; single elimination on Sunday. Things happen.


As far as "responsibility" on them, I think U12 All-Star players do understand they are responsible for doing their very best for their team on tournament weekend. And that is perfectly OK at this level.

The only part I feel terrible about are the shootouts; there is just so much pressure on the poor goalies; and I have seen players leave the field in tears when their shots went wide and missed the goal entirely. I don't have a better suggestion for deciding ties; just pointing out all the pressure and attention on those 2 players at that moment.

I have often thought that the shootouts should be performed by parents rather than kids.
I think each coach should be able to pick 5 parents from the OPPOSING team to shoot along with a keeper parent - much like basketball when a free throw shooter is injured the opposing coach picks the shooter

To me, this would be appropriate, no pressure on the kids as they played a fair tie.
To the parents that obsessively care, and have obnoxiously been screaming all game long, they get to take the field and disappoint their children
and the kids get to see their parents are'nt very good

or a parent dance off would also work

[Anonymous]

I have often thought that the shootouts should be performed by parents rather than kids.
I think each coach should be able to pick 5 parents from the OPPOSING team to shoot along with a keeper parent - much like basketball when a free throw shooter is injured the opposing coach picks the shooter

To me, this would be appropriate, no pressure on the kids as they played a fair tie.
To the parents that obsessively care, and have obnoxiously been screaming all game long, they get to take the field and disappoint their children
and the kids get to see their parents are'nt very good



yes some of the larger waddling parents should have to stand in the goal like large sea lions or king walruses and face the shots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have often thought that the shootouts should be performed by parents rather than kids.
I think each coach should be able to pick 5 parents from the OPPOSING team to shoot along with a keeper parent - much like basketball when a free throw shooter is injured the opposing coach picks the shooter

To me, this would be appropriate, no pressure on the kids as they played a fair tie.
To the parents that obsessively care, and have obnoxiously been screaming all game long, they get to take the field and disappoint their children
and the kids get to see their parents are'nt very good



or a parent dance off would also work

hmmm this could be very bad or very good, a twerk off between McLean and Loudoun for all the marbles