FCPS plans to "reform" TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pat Hynes
@VotePatHynes
·
Mar 20
Does sound like TJ. DiBlasio’s proposed solution for NY is to admit the top students from every middle school - geographic equality as a stand-in for equity. Might work. Look at SF’s experience with Lowell HS - geography-plus. FCPS will begin TJ reform plan this year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone been following this?

No, but this is a terrible idea. It came up a few years ago and a bunch of parents said outright that they'll simply rent in less-desirable school middle school boundaries to increase their kids' chances if FCPS goes this route. FCPS is loathe to admit it, but they're well-aware that the county has a vested interest in not losing the TJ and AAP parents. I think they'll talk a big game but never follow through.

LOL!

And... where exactly are these parents going to go?

Too funny pp!

Private schools. There some good, smaller parochial schools that don't break the bank. I know people who moved their kids from private to public once their kids were accepted into AAP. Parents can move the money they put into enrichment and test prep into tuition. FCPS does not want to lose those test score from their schools.

[Anonymous]

For those of you threatening to leave: why wait? Why not leave now? Bye bye!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pat Hynes
@VotePatHynes
·
Mar 20
Does sound like TJ. DiBlasio’s proposed solution for NY is to admit the top students from every middle school - geographic equality as a stand-in for equity. Might work. Look at SF’s experience with Lowell HS - geography-plus. FCPS will begin TJ reform plan this year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone been following this?

No, but this is a terrible idea. It came up a few years ago and a bunch of parents said outright that they'll simply rent in less-desirable school middle school boundaries to increase their kids' chances if FCPS goes this route. FCPS is loathe to admit it, but they're well-aware that the county has a vested interest in not losing the TJ and AAP parents. I think they'll talk a big game but never follow through.

LOL!

And... where exactly are these parents going to go?

Too funny pp!

LCPS to AOS and AET. MCPs to RMIB and Blair. Basis. Someone will give these kids the STEM education they want.

There are articles interviewing Amazon and they chose NOVA despite the high COL because of its “STEM pipeline” AAP to TJ to VT. Although VT is having issues. And VA pledged a billion dollars towards STEM education to get Amazon. Not a billion dollars in infrastructure. A billion dollars in education. TJ has a big impact on regional economic success and VA’s quest to become less dependent on the federal government. You may not like it. You may laugh. But it’s true.

It’s a governors school. Ultimately, this goes through Richmond, not the SM. Every year the Eastern County Rep bring this up because they hate the imbalance between the Carson RRMs admit numbers and Eastern country admission numbers. And every year it does in committee with the Eastern County Rep being the only vote for.

From the outside looking in, messing with TJs success in the wake of Amazon is insane. It’s meant to be 100% merit based. It is not meant to be Harvard. It’s meant to be MiT. You could change its mission, but then you get a mediocre school.

And yes. TJ moves heaven and Earth to get qualified URMs and low SES to apply. If you fit these categories, you can do a two year MS program with mentoring and summer institute and TJ and TJ prepping classes and access to things like robotics teams to prepare you. Paid for by the Jack Kent Cook Foundation. It has not moved the needle.

If FCPS wanted better representation, they pull IB out of the Eastern County HSs and make them more attractive places to send smart kids. People commuting would love to live in Annandale or Alexandria vs Herndon.

But if this did come to pass, yes. Parents would rent an apartment their kids 8th grade year. Pick the least competitive HS, and tutor their kids like heck. It would make it easier, not harder, to game the system.

Lol. You think those options are so perfect. Loudoun? Hilarious.

Why wait? Don’t let the door hit you on your way out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting because I've taught in middle schools in FCPS in three different schools. I worked in a middle class, non-TJ feeder school for 7 years (think Robinson, Fairfax, Lake Braddock or West Springfield). I enjoyed working there, taught math and the kids were bright and hard-working. A few were interested in TJ but there really wasn't much support from teachers, guidance or admin. beyond doing the bare minimum. I had zero guidance on filling out recommendations, what TJ is looking for and we basically said "good luck" with only a few kids getting in. (It's still the case for these schools).

I then went to teach at a Title I middle school. The kids had other struggles beyond only math. I spent way more time teaching the language of math, teaching and reinforcing concepts. I did have some students who were advanced and a few pursued TJ. Very rarely we had more than a handful of kids who attended. Like my previous school, there was very little support to mentor kids, write recommendations, or even pay attention to the TJ deadlines. The few kids who made it in really had to manage and advocate to get through the process.

I now teach in a major TJ feeder (home with a sick kid today). And it is like working in a completely different school system. We attend multiple meetings with admins and other teachers to discuss, coordinate and manage the TJ application process. TJ counselors and admins provide us guidance on best practices. Our teaching is accelerated as a matter of course (and sadly, our ESOL and SPED students struggle and really get the short end of the stick unless they have parents who are aggressively managing IEPs and 504's and ESOL support). It is night and day.

So, in some ways, I think spreading TJ spots to the middle school level would address some of the inequity that is sort of baked in the cake in FCPS. I look at my first school, where there were as many kids in Alg. 1 in 7th as my current school and see that there is such a different approach to TJ. Getting a more uniform approach probably would address things, but absent there being a sense of demand, schools are site run and they really do focus on the issues that impact as many kids as possible. For the rare TJ applicant, they don't get the support that they would if they went to my current school. Even though all of the schools are in FCPS.

I am not surprised that there is such a disparity across the county. How much of the difference is due to the parents level of involvement in the process?

I live in area that feeds into Carson and see the Test Prep places on Elden Street and the various enrichment centers and programs. DS is going to be participating in chess, robotics, and coding after school this session because it is available and he is interested. I have no idea how many kids end up at TJ but parents are discussing advanced math, although not too many are interested in AAP per se. My understanding is that there are schools were the PTAs are full of parents who are very involved and want to make sure their kids have a lot of STEM based enrichment options.

Do you think that the kids at your other schools would be able to handle, or want to handle, the academic pressure that comes from attending TJ? Are they prepared enough in their classes? I am not sure that I would want DS to go to TJ, the commute and the pressure strike me as crazy.

I am surprised to hear that TJ is not reaching out to all schools to provide guidance on the process for the teachers and counselors at the schools. I should think that the same meetings and training should be held annually so that all the schools have the same information on admissions.

PP here. I've actually thought a good bit about this. And I'm of two minds. For my first school, I would say that there were plenty of kids who could have done perfectly well at TJ. I base this on my assessment of students in my current school. Honestly, the biggest difference I see is that my students now walk in the door with a resume that they have spent a good bit of time developing (years, really). My current students' parents are heavily involved in the process (even though we give lip service to student based advocacy). If I took the kids I had in school one and gave them the school based support and parent support in school three, they'd probably coast into TJ in large numbers. Not to put down the parents in school one. They were incredibly involved and they spent time and money and energy on their kids. It's just that they weren't keyed into TJ the way my current parents are. What's interesting is that the kids at school one live much closer or equadistant to TJ than my current school

In my second school, I think they'd probably get more students, particularly ESOL and minority students if they invested in TJ development at the teacher and admin levels. But people really need to understand that for many decisions, it is site based management that is driven by the needs of the majority. It is hard to get attention to something that may only help 20 kids instead of netting 2-4 kids annually to TJ. Yes, I think the parents inform the process, but I think there is a feeling of why bother in a lot of these schools. So, even if I were a parent in school 1 or 2, I'd face an uphill battle to get my kids the support I think they need to get to and succeed at TJ. I think a lot of these parents just give up and clump up at the big feeders. It's a self-fulfilling cycle then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pat Hynes
@VotePatHynes
·
Mar 20
Does sound like TJ. DiBlasio’s proposed solution for NY is to admit the top students from every middle school - geographic equality as a stand-in for equity. Might work. Look at SF’s experience with Lowell HS - geography-plus. FCPS will begin TJ reform plan this year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone been following this?

No, but this is a terrible idea. It came up a few years ago and a bunch of parents said outright that they'll simply rent in less-desirable school middle school boundaries to increase their kids' chances if FCPS goes this route. FCPS is loathe to admit it, but they're well-aware that the county has a vested interest in not losing the TJ and AAP parents. I think they'll talk a big game but never follow through.

My sister lives in TX where the top 10% of every high school class gets in to UT. She has friends who moved into a less desirable school district and supplemented their children's education with tutoring in order to get them into UT.

[Anonymous]

They tried this in the 90a and the diversity students failed out of college and were losers. Sad idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting because I've taught in middle schools in FCPS in three different schools. I worked in a middle class, non-TJ feeder school for 7 years (think Robinson, Fairfax, Lake Braddock or West Springfield). I enjoyed working there, taught math and the kids were bright and hard-working. A few were interested in TJ but there really wasn't much support from teachers, guidance or admin. beyond doing the bare minimum. I had zero guidance on filling out recommendations, what TJ is looking for and we basically said "good luck" with only a few kids getting in. (It's still the case for these schools).

I then went to teach at a Title I middle school. The kids had other struggles beyond only math. I spent way more time teaching the language of math, teaching and reinforcing concepts. I did have some students who were advanced and a few pursued TJ. Very rarely we had more than a handful of kids who attended. Like my previous school, there was very little support to mentor kids, write recommendations, or even pay attention to the TJ deadlines. The few kids who made it in really had to manage and advocate to get through the process.

I now teach in a major TJ feeder (home with a sick kid today). And it is like working in a completely different school system. We attend multiple meetings with admins and other teachers to discuss, coordinate and manage the TJ application process. TJ counselors and admins provide us guidance on best practices. Our teaching is accelerated as a matter of course (and sadly, our ESOL and SPED students struggle and really get the short end of the stick unless they have parents who are aggressively managing IEPs and 504's and ESOL support). It is night and day.

So, in some ways, I think spreading TJ spots to the middle school level would address some of the inequity that is sort of baked in the cake in FCPS. I look at my first school, where there were as many kids in Alg. 1 in 7th as my current school and see that there is such a different approach to TJ. Getting a more uniform approach probably would address things, but absent there being a sense of demand, schools are site run and they really do focus on the issues that impact as many kids as possible. For the rare TJ applicant, they don't get the support that they would if they went to my current school. Even though all of the schools are in FCPS.

I am not surprised that there is such a disparity across the county. How much of the difference is due to the parents level of involvement in the process?

I live in area that feeds into Carson and see the Test Prep places on Elden Street and the various enrichment centers and programs. DS is going to be participating in chess, robotics, and coding after school this session because it is available and he is interested. I have no idea how many kids end up at TJ but parents are discussing advanced math, although not too many are interested in AAP per se. My understanding is that there are schools were the PTAs are full of parents who are very involved and want to make sure their kids have a lot of STEM based enrichment options.

Do you think that the kids at your other schools would be able to handle, or want to handle, the academic pressure that comes from attending TJ? Are they prepared enough in their classes? I am not sure that I would want DS to go to TJ, the commute and the pressure strike me as crazy.

I am surprised to hear that TJ is not reaching out to all schools to provide guidance on the process for the teachers and counselors at the schools. I should think that the same meetings and training should be held annually so that all the schools have the same information on admissions.

PP here. I've actually thought a good bit about this. And I'm of two minds. For my first school, I would say that there were plenty of kids who could have done perfectly well at TJ. I base this on my assessment of students in my current school. Honestly, the biggest difference I see is that my students now walk in the door with a resume that they have spent a good bit of time developing (years, really). My current students' parents are heavily involved in the process (even though we give lip service to student based advocacy). If I took the kids I had in school one and gave them the school based support and parent support in school three, they'd probably coast into TJ in large numbers. Not to put down the parents in school one. They were incredibly involved and they spent time and money and energy on their kids. It's just that they weren't keyed into TJ the way my current parents are. What's interesting is that the kids at school one live much closer or equadistant to TJ than my current school

In my second school, I think they'd probably get more students, particularly ESOL and minority students if they invested in TJ development at the teacher and admin levels. But people really need to understand that for many decisions, it is site based management that is driven by the needs of the majority. It is hard to get attention to something that may only help 20 kids instead of netting 2-4 kids annually to TJ. Yes, I think the parents inform the process, but I think there is a feeling of why bother in a lot of these schools. So, even if I were a parent in school 1 or 2, I'd face an uphill battle to get my kids the support I think they need to get to and succeed at TJ. I think a lot of these parents just give up and clump up at the big feeders. It's a self-fulfilling cycle then.

As a parent in one of your #2 school pyramids, if we were adamant that our child try for TJ, we would have chosen a different school in another part of the county. We don't think TJ is the right choice for our children or family though, so we purposely avoided the big TJ feeders and bought where we did. So no amount of guidance, support, or reminding us about TJ deadlines would be sufficient to move the needle for us, unless one of our children were to take on that challenge by his own initiative. In that case, I would hope that he'd be organized and on top of things enough to submit the package on time, if he wanted any chance of actually making it through 4 years of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting because I've taught in middle schools in FCPS in three different schools. I worked in a middle class, non-TJ feeder school for 7 years (think Robinson, Fairfax, Lake Braddock or West Springfield). I enjoyed working there, taught math and the kids were bright and hard-working. A few were interested in TJ but there really wasn't much support from teachers, guidance or admin. beyond doing the bare minimum. I had zero guidance on filling out recommendations, what TJ is looking for and we basically said "good luck" with only a few kids getting in. (It's still the case for these schools).

I then went to teach at a Title I middle school. The kids had other struggles beyond only math. I spent way more time teaching the language of math, teaching and reinforcing concepts. I did have some students who were advanced and a few pursued TJ. Very rarely we had more than a handful of kids who attended. Like my previous school, there was very little support to mentor kids, write recommendations, or even pay attention to the TJ deadlines. The few kids who made it in really had to manage and advocate to get through the process.

I now teach in a major TJ feeder (home with a sick kid today). And it is like working in a completely different school system. We attend multiple meetings with admins and other teachers to discuss, coordinate and manage the TJ application process. TJ counselors and admins provide us guidance on best practices. Our teaching is accelerated as a matter of course (and sadly, our ESOL and SPED students struggle and really get the short end of the stick unless they have parents who are aggressively managing IEPs and 504's and ESOL support). It is night and day.

So, in some ways, I think spreading TJ spots to the middle school level would address some of the inequity that is sort of baked in the cake in FCPS. I look at my first school, where there were as many kids in Alg. 1 in 7th as my current school and see that there is such a different approach to TJ. Getting a more uniform approach probably would address things, but absent there being a sense of demand, schools are site run and they really do focus on the issues that impact as many kids as possible. For the rare TJ applicant, they don't get the support that they would if they went to my current school. Even though all of the schools are in FCPS.

I am not surprised that there is such a disparity across the county. How much of the difference is due to the parents level of involvement in the process?

I live in area that feeds into Carson and see the Test Prep places on Elden Street and the various enrichment centers and programs. DS is going to be participating in chess, robotics, and coding after school this session because it is available and he is interested. I have no idea how many kids end up at TJ but parents are discussing advanced math, although not too many are interested in AAP per se. My understanding is that there are schools were the PTAs are full of parents who are very involved and want to make sure their kids have a lot of STEM based enrichment options.

Do you think that the kids at your other schools would be able to handle, or want to handle, the academic pressure that comes from attending TJ? Are they prepared enough in their classes? I am not sure that I would want DS to go to TJ, the commute and the pressure strike me as crazy.

I am surprised to hear that TJ is not reaching out to all schools to provide guidance on the process for the teachers and counselors at the schools. I should think that the same meetings and training should be held annually so that all the schools have the same information on admissions.

PP here. I've actually thought a good bit about this. And I'm of two minds. For my first school, I would say that there were plenty of kids who could have done perfectly well at TJ. I base this on my assessment of students in my current school. Honestly, the biggest difference I see is that my students now walk in the door with a resume that they have spent a good bit of time developing (years, really). My current students' parents are heavily involved in the process (even though we give lip service to student based advocacy). If I took the kids I had in school one and gave them the school based support and parent support in school three, they'd probably coast into TJ in large numbers. Not to put down the parents in school one. They were incredibly involved and they spent time and money and energy on their kids. It's just that they weren't keyed into TJ the way my current parents are. What's interesting is that the kids at school one live much closer or equadistant to TJ than my current school

In my second school, I think they'd probably get more students, particularly ESOL and minority students if they invested in TJ development at the teacher and admin levels. But people really need to understand that for many decisions, it is site based management that is driven by the needs of the majority. It is hard to get attention to something that may only help 20 kids instead of netting 2-4 kids annually to TJ. Yes, I think the parents inform the process, but I think there is a feeling of why bother in a lot of these schools. So, even if I were a parent in school 1 or 2, I'd face an uphill battle to get my kids the support I think they need to get to and succeed at TJ. I think a lot of these parents just give up and clump up at the big feeders. It's a self-fulfilling cycle then.

As a parent in one of your #2 school pyramids, if we were adamant that our child try for TJ, we would have chosen a different school in another part of the county. We don't think TJ is the right choice for our children or family though, so we purposely avoided the big TJ feeders and bought where we did. So no amount of guidance, support, or reminding us about TJ deadlines would be sufficient to move the needle for us, unless one of our children were to take on that challenge by his own initiative. In that case, I would hope that he'd be organized and on top of things enough to submit the package on time, if he wanted any chance of actually making it through 4 years of TJ.

Sorry, I meant #1, not #2

[Anonymous]

I hate the long quotes so I am not quoting.

Thanks to the Teacher PP. I appreciate your insight. And the parent who responded as well. Those are different insights then we normally see in this conversation and I appreciate them.

In the end, TJ is a program that requires a different type os student and mindset then most schools. While you have to be very smart to attend TJ and complete the course work you also have to be very committed to a more intense program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pat Hynes
@VotePatHynes
·
Mar 20
Does sound like TJ. DiBlasio’s proposed solution for NY is to admit the top students from every middle school - geographic equality as a stand-in for equity. Might work. Look at SF’s experience with Lowell HS - geography-plus. FCPS will begin TJ reform plan this year.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone been following this?

This is happening in MCPS right now. TJ will never be the same school.

Not at the HS level, yet. Maybe soon, but not yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You will pry FCPS’s systemic racism from its cold, dead hand.

So long as white moms roam the county, yes.

Did you fall asleep 30 years ago? It’s test-prep Asians who want to keep TJ as it is with no changes.

Seriously. Look at the school profile- it’s something like 70% Asian. Don’t Asians count as minorities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You will pry FCPS’s systemic racism from its cold, dead hand.

So long as white moms roam the county, yes.

Did you fall asleep 30 years ago? It’s test-prep Asians who want to keep TJ as it is with no changes.

Ha ha! The intensity of the TJ program right now (thanks to 30 years on "prep Asians") is so high that most of the soccer/football/basketball kids and their parents would get bent over and run back to base school before the end of the first week. Be careful what you wish for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You will pry FCPS’s systemic racism from its cold, dead hand.

So long as white moms roam the county, yes.

Did you fall asleep 30 years ago? It’s test-prep Asians who want to keep TJ as it is with no changes.

Ha ha! The intensity of the TJ program right now (thanks to 30 years on "prep Asians") is so high that most of the soccer/football/basketball kids and their parents would get bent over and run back to base school before the end of the first week. Be careful what you wish for.

yup it's how it is in most asian countries go to school and then go to test prep/hw camp to get into the elite colleges

it's sad we have let that culture permeate which was once an actual STEM magnet to now being populated by people who have been prepping since elementary school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You will pry FCPS’s systemic racism from its cold, dead hand.

So long as white moms roam the county, yes.

Did you fall asleep 30 years ago? It’s test-prep Asians who want to keep TJ as it is with no changes.

The charge was racism Asians are not racists.

[Anonymous]

Can deBlasio advise FCPS on this? He’s a good man with progressive ideas.