A serious question for my fellow Black DCUMers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of it has been systematic disenfranchisement of African Americans. This recent Propublica/New Yorker article covers one example--black families passed down land to descendants, and the land is sometimes later taken from them by courts, developers, etc. I'm black (although 1st-gen American) and I had no idea stuff like this had occurred recently and is still ongoing.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/22/kicked-off-the-land?utm_brand=tny&utm_source=facebook&utm_social-type=owned&mbid=social_facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1O7GdqtpMZK7fjhGnTFgzNfrm3ShGBmRmydq0pG7c11bKpcTi0zsnNtDc

This is an interesting piece. But you should know seizing land and valuables happens in small towns too. Texas has a huge problem with this, and it’s not just against Blacks. I only skimmed the piece but it’s seems it’s a lack of education of how laws are in flux that results in land losing.

I’m Hispanic (2nd generation), I’m the pp poster with my family idea. I think Op that the ones that do this have drugs and nothing to lose. Most people are good if they aren’t on drugs. If they had a good family unit even poor, there would be something to turn to. Money does buy opportunities. But love care and togetherness is not bought with money. If they could turn to church, they could turn around. I don’t think they are past rehab. But it can’t be the government fixing this. Yes there’s millions of issues they can fix. But you can’t fix instrisic value with a law. Foster children have the same issue.

OP here.

Yes, the drug and alcohol mix has a lethal history in our communities. These twin demons take more lives than just about anything else. And you're right, they are powerful enough to change genuinely good people into shells of their former selves. But I've seen rehabilitation even among these desperate circumstances. I'm sure you can think of individuals who were lost on drugs or alcohol and have since been reclaimed either by wise counselors, by religious conversion, or by personal epiphanies that lead them to come to themselves and to go straight.

But I'm talking about a different breed, here. Those who commit "senseless" killings: accounts of robbers who kill their unresisting victims; accounts of killings for such trivial affronts as an odd look or being cut off in traffic; accounts of wild-firing killers (Google: Makiyah Wilson) who pursue their targets through streets, playgrounds and schools, with utter disregard for innocent bystanders. I feel like these individuals are on a very different level and I question whether it's possible to reach them through any means.

I can’t figure out how you decided this group is a widespread problem. It’s a tiny percentage of the black population. You can go to many poor white communities and find young men like this. It just doesn’t make the news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, studies show black and Latino men are more involved fathers than white men.

Those out of wedlock births are just that. The parents aren’t married but they are often living together.

That’s not it.

I don’t know what black men or boys you think are horrible. I worked in Baltimore City jail and will attest anyone can get locked up. Most who are arrested are good guys who have done something bad. They should t be judged on the worst they’ve done without taking into consideration all they have done.

Most people are good, OP. By far.

I'm OP.

I agree with you that many Black and Latino men are involved fathers. We love our children as much as any other racial/ethnic group. When a child is old enough to understand, I do believe it makes a difference whether their parents are married, or not. I never set eyes on my father and often wondered (still do at 50 yo) if he even loved my mother. That has impacted me in certain ways.

It was difficult to read your comment that I think our boys horrible. I don't. But there are some, a small number, that seem beyond reach. We likely read the same news (Google: Tony Antoine McClam) - these examples, specifically, are too common in our community and I'm sure you'll agree that they are "horrible". I really do hear you, but this isn't about selling weed on the corner stuff.

I know, firsthand, that most Black men are good and I think most people are good, too. I tried to make that clear in the opening post. But I also know we've got to face it that these heinous killings in our community occur way too frequently. I believe we, as a race, have to get serious about what to do about it.

I am that PP and I did your OP a disservice. I’m white and I guess my intended audience for my post was white. I’m so tired of white people thinking there is something inherently wrong or bad about black kids. As I said, I worked in Baltimore City where lead poisoning was a widespread problem and it has neurological effects on children, including damaging their impulse control. Think of a kid with ADHD x 10. Lead was in the paint and it was in the gas all our cars used. I’m close to your age. You likely remember leaded gas, too.

I can’t speak to the role the black community should take. I can only advocate for our role as a community as a whole. We can’t just dismiss racism. I watched who got arrested. I made associations based on race about who got arrested. You know who got locked up for child molestation all the time? White people from Armistead Gardens. What did that make my 20-something self think in the 90s? It was that white people, more than any other race, were more likely to molest their kids in horrible ways. Is my anecdote true? What about the possibility that it takes a crime “that” bad to get shitty white men locked up, vs. the black man at the corner who was hanging out in a no-loitering zone? Remember those? They were just used to do to massive arrests of guys hanging out on the corner, because in parts of Baltimore City, there’s nothing to do and no way to get to something fun without money. Add the heat of the summer and no air in a row house. I’m not saying many didn’t have drugs on them. Many did. But many white men do, too. And they just go through life untouched by the criminal justice system.

And what does that do to a man? Getting locked up, possibly multiple times? It sure doesn’t instill a sense of healthy self esteem. What does it do, when he can’t get a job later, because of that stupid crap on his record? Why keep trying when you don’t succeed? Why not just do what everyone else is doing? Why not make the money selling drugs because a drug dealer doesn’t do a background check and tell you sorry but no thanks. Then a man feels worth something. He can support himself, and maybe his girlfriend, and his kids.

It’s not right. But when paths to legitimate success close early, what else is there?

God help the black kid who has ADHD or depression or anxiety or a learning disability and his parents don’t have access to health insurance or therapy or meds. My son does. He’s hand-held through therapies and I go to parenting classes, because I can. He’s going to be ok. Will he be some neurosurgeon or business leader? Maybe not. But he will be able to support himself and have healthy relationships with others. And frankly this is what all kids need. Health insurance, good medical care, parents who have the time and knowledge to see there is a problem and be able to access resources to fix it. A decent school. A safe school. Scaffolded support until the young teen is an adult and can take care of him or herself.

This happens in my black friends’ homes. But my black friends are middle to upper income and educated. So wealth absolutely has a protective effect. That’s one reason liberal policies won’t to extend those luxuries-that-should-be-rights to lower income people. On the long run, it does our entire society good.

So if churches are the center of many black communities, maybe churches can pool together for health insurance co-ops. Or offer free parenting classes on Sunday’s after church. Or relationship classes. Anger management classes. Employment skill classes. Sex Ed classes. Birth control. Create Leadership opportunities for young men to feel valued and important. A summer bible camp where young teens can be counselors in training. There are a lot of lower cost ideas that could help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an optimist and tend to seek the bright side of even the most troubling problems. I’m energized when people get together to look for solutions and quickly lose patience with fault finding efforts.

So my question to Black people is especially difficult for me: Do we have problems -- serious, widespread, community-threatening problems -- that can't be fixed? I particularly have in mind the young men (mostly) who may be irredeemable. To be clear, I’m not talking here about mere street toughs or even gang-bangers. I’m specifically focused on youngsters in our community who, I fear, have no inner self to come to, who indiscriminately maim, kill and even die without remorse. These are our children (and not always children) who are missing something at the core of their being, who have no feeling for others and who seem to have no feelings at all except rage. We’re all unfortunately familiar with this, in the DC area alone it’s customary to read about these violent offenders in our local communities.

Of course we know full-well that young Black men are not the only ones who commit these crimes. In fact, we know most Black men never commit any crimes at all. We also know other races have their own deep-seated problems. But I’m asking us about us (White folks, you’re welcome to weigh in, too). What can we do about this problem? The young Black men who seem to plaque our communities without a conscience. Is it pointless to speak of rehabilitating them, when they were never habilitated in the first place?

As I said, I tend to be optimistic and believe there are answers, but I don’t know. I really don’t know.

No, and as a fellow black woman- YOU and black communities are the problem. DAMMIT. YOU believe these kids can't succeed, YOU believe "we" have systemic problems that are too big to fix. So you have literally GIVEN UP on our babies, our UTURES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass.

+1 this website has so many racist and prejudice people.
I’m not about to have normal black get together convo on here. I call troll

+1, I'm starting to think so too. Don't think most black people would bring this up on DCUM and title it "my fellow Black DCUMers" knowing how few of us there are on this site, and how racist the responses will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, studies show black and Latino men are more involved fathers than white men.

Those out of wedlock births are just that. The parents aren’t married but they are often living together.

That’s not it.

I don’t know what black men or boys you think are horrible. I worked in Baltimore City jail and will attest anyone can get locked up. Most who are arrested are good guys who have done something bad. They should t be judged on the worst they’ve done without taking into consideration all they have done.

Most people are good, OP. By far.

I'm OP.

I agree with you that many Black and Latino men are involved fathers. We love our children as much as any other racial/ethnic group. When a child is old enough to understand, I do believe it makes a difference whether their parents are married, or not. I never set eyes on my father and often wondered (still do at 50 yo) if he even loved my mother. That has impacted me in certain ways.

It was difficult to read your comment that I think our boys horrible. I don't. But there are some, a small number, that seem beyond reach. We likely read the same news (Google: Tony Antoine McClam) - these examples, specifically, are too common in our community and I'm sure you'll agree that they are "horrible". I really do hear you, but this isn't about selling weed on the corner stuff.

I know, firsthand, that most Black men are good and I think most people are good, too. I tried to make that clear in the opening post. But I also know we've got to face it that these heinous killings in our community occur way too frequently. I believe we, as a race, have to get serious about what to do about it.

I am that PP and I did your OP a disservice. I’m white and I guess my intended audience for my post was white. I’m so tired of white people thinking there is something inherently wrong or bad about black kids. As I said, I worked in Baltimore City where lead poisoning was a widespread problem and it has neurological effects on children, including damaging their impulse control. Think of a kid with ADHD x 10. Lead was in the paint and it was in the gas all our cars used. I’m close to your age. You likely remember leaded gas, too.

I can’t speak to the role the black community should take. I can only advocate for our role as a community as a whole. We can’t just dismiss racism. I watched who got arrested. I made associations based on race about who got arrested. You know who got locked up for child molestation all the time? White people from Armistead Gardens. What did that make my 20-something self think in the 90s? It was that white people, more than any other race, were more likely to molest their kids in horrible ways. Is my anecdote true? What about the possibility that it takes a crime “that” bad to get shitty white men locked up, vs. the black man at the corner who was hanging out in a no-loitering zone? Remember those? They were just used to do to massive arrests of guys hanging out on the corner, because in parts of Baltimore City, there’s nothing to do and no way to get to something fun without money. Add the heat of the summer and no air in a row house. I’m not saying many didn’t have drugs on them. Many did. But many white men do, too. And they just go through life untouched by the criminal justice system.

And what does that do to a man? Getting locked up, possibly multiple times? It sure doesn’t instill a sense of healthy self esteem. What does it do, when he can’t get a job later, because of that stupid crap on his record? Why keep trying when you don’t succeed? Why not just do what everyone else is doing? Why not make the money selling drugs because a drug dealer doesn’t do a background check and tell you sorry but no thanks. Then a man feels worth something. He can support himself, and maybe his girlfriend, and his kids.

It’s not right. But when paths to legitimate success close early, what else is there?

God help the black kid who has ADHD or depression or anxiety or a learning disability and his parents don’t have access to health insurance or therapy or meds. My son does. He’s hand-held through therapies and I go to parenting classes, because I can. He’s going to be ok. Will he be some neurosurgeon or business leader? Maybe not. But he will be able to support himself and have healthy relationships with others. And frankly this is what all kids need. Health insurance, good medical care, parents who have the time and knowledge to see there is a problem and be able to access resources to fix it. A decent school. A safe school. Scaffolded support until the young teen is an adult and can take care of him or herself.

This happens in my black friends’ homes. But my black friends are middle to upper income and educated. So wealth absolutely has a protective effect. That’s one reason liberal policies won’t to extend those luxuries-that-should-be-rights to lower income people. On the long run, it does our entire society good.

So if churches are the center of many black communities, maybe churches can pool together for health insurance co-ops. Or offer free parenting classes on Sunday’s after church. Or relationship classes. Anger management classes. Employment skill classes. Sex Ed classes. Birth control. Create Leadership opportunities for young men to feel valued and important. A summer bible camp where young teens can be counselors in training. There are a lot of lower cost ideas that could help.

I have taught in a high FARMS school for 15 years. I've noticed that it's very difficult to convince parents of black kids (boys especially) that their child could benefit from mental health support. These are kids with severe behavior issues that continue despite all the interventions that we're capable of providing that don't require parent permission. We're required to document and communicate with parents when there are incidents, but many times the parents can be hostile. Parents tell us to stop calling them and they don't have time to deal with the school. Many will refuse to allow their kids to meet with the counselor, participate in the mentor program or meet with the Linkages to Learning therapist housed in our school building. Sometimes parents choose to seek services outside of school, but many won't allow their child to receive any services at all. There is definitely still a stigma attached to receiving mental health help and support.

We want to see these students succeed. They have some amazing qualities that can be developed with the proper guidance and support, but a lot of them are in survival mode all the time. They don't feel safe anywhere. Building solid stable relationships is very important, and sometimes these kids don't have many solid stable relationships in their lives. I really don't know what the answer is, but I know it has to start when kids are young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an optimist and tend to seek the bright side of even the most troubling problems. I’m energized when people get together to look for solutions and quickly lose patience with fault finding efforts.

So my question to Black people is especially difficult for me: Do we have problems -- serious, widespread, community-threatening problems -- that can't be fixed? I particularly have in mind the young men (mostly) who may be irredeemable. To be clear, I’m not talking here about mere street toughs or even gang-bangers. I’m specifically focused on youngsters in our community who, I fear, have no inner self to come to, who indiscriminately maim, kill and even die without remorse. These are our children (and not always children) who are missing something at the core of their being, who have no feeling for others and who seem to have no feelings at all except rage. We’re all unfortunately familiar with this, in the DC area alone it’s customary to read about these violent offenders in our local communities.

Of course we know full-well that young Black men are not the only ones who commit these crimes. In fact, we know most Black men never commit any crimes at all. We also know other races have their own deep-seated problems. But I’m asking us about us (White folks, you’re welcome to weigh in, too). What can we do about this problem? The young Black men who seem to plaque our communities without a conscience. Is it pointless to speak of rehabilitating them, when they were never habilitated in the first place?

As I said, I tend to be optimistic and believe there are answers, but I don’t know. I really don’t know.

PREACH
No, and as a fellow black woman- YOU and black communities are the problem. DAMMIT. YOU believe these kids can't succeed, YOU believe "we" have systemic problems that are too big to fix. So you have literally GIVEN UP on our babies, our UTURES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an optimist and tend to seek the bright side of even the most troubling problems. I’m energized when people get together to look for solutions and quickly lose patience with fault finding efforts.

So my question to Black people is especially difficult for me: Do we have problems -- serious, widespread, community-threatening problems -- that can't be fixed? I particularly have in mind the young men (mostly) who may be irredeemable. To be clear, I’m not talking here about mere street toughs or even gang-bangers. I’m specifically focused on youngsters in our community who, I fear, have no inner self to come to, who indiscriminately maim, kill and even die without remorse. These are our children (and not always children) who are missing something at the core of their being, who have no feeling for others and who seem to have no feelings at all except rage. We’re all unfortunately familiar with this, in the DC area alone it’s customary to read about these violent offenders in our local communities.

Of course we know full-well that young Black men are not the only ones who commit these crimes. In fact, we know most Black men never commit any crimes at all. We also know other races have their own deep-seated problems. But I’m asking us about us (White folks, you’re welcome to weigh in, too). What can we do about this problem? The young Black men who seem to plaque our communities without a conscience. Is it pointless to speak of rehabilitating them, when they were never habilitated in the first place?

As I said, I tend to be optimistic and believe there are answers, but I don’t know. I really don’t know.

No, and as a fellow black woman- YOU and black communities are the problem. DAMMIT. YOU believe these kids can't succeed, YOU believe "we" have systemic problems that are too big to fix. So you have literally GIVEN UP on our babies, our UTURES.

I feel the pain in your response. I knew this discussion would elicit these emotions because we care. I understand where you're coming from. Thank you for being real with me.

But I would like to know if you believe the issue I've raised in the OP regarding those that maim and kill without remorse is a systemic problem in our community? If the issue isn't too big to fix, what are the solutions?

I love us too much to ever give up on our babies (I have 4 of my own) and our future. That will never happen. But the hard reality is that too many of our babies are born without the structure and support they need and that is playing out in very damaging, and oftentimes deadly, ways.


I was born in environments where I know some kids were not properly cared for - for whatever reason. I was one of them. And like the PP, I was fortunate to make it out ok, but scarred, for sure.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, as a black person, I have just accepted that racism is a real thing and that there is a huge, huge effort by many white people to deny its existence. So, I see the truth in things.

I see it. I accept that it's not a fair playing field. I accept that professionally I will struggle and have struggled in ways my white coworkers simply never will. I accept the study that demonstrates big law partners rate the writing of black attorneys more harshly than white attorneys. I accept things will never really change because most white people are fine with the ways things are. I accept that many white people refuse to admit that the past 50-75 years in this country is a minimal amount of time compared to the hundreds of years of horror black people have suffered through. I accept that wealth is probably unequal due to discriminatory hiring, lending, housing that benefited white people's grand parents and parents. I accept it all.

Then I get up, send my children to the best school we could find, go to work and do good work, go home, work with my children and drive them to classes and sports and activities. I make healthy food. I meditate. I practice self-care. I do all of the things to thrive. And I keep the rest out of my mind. Because I know it's there and I know there is no strong incentive to change things (if anything there is an incentive to deny, ignore and deflect).

I can't give it any more power or influence in my life. I can't change it. I refuse to engage it. It's not my doing or responsibility. And the premise that black people or minorities should speak to racism, own racism, fix racism is a farce. This is a white people's problem that many of them have little interest in fixing.

I choose to thrive. I choose to live.

[Anonymous]

OP, I reject your premise that there are more people in the black community who "maim and kill without remorse" than in the larger community. I mean really, given the s*** we deal with that other people do not need to concern themselves with, I'm heartened there aren't MORE people maiming and killing without remorse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I reject your premise that there are more people in the black community who "maim and kill without remorse" than in the larger community. I mean really, given the s*** we deal with that other people do not need to concern themselves with, I'm heartened there aren't MORE people maiming and killing without remorse.

Just to be clear/fair, the OP never said there are more people in the black community who commit these acts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I reject your premise that there are more people in the black community who "maim and kill without remorse" than in the larger community. I mean really, given the s*** we deal with that other people do not need to concern themselves with, I'm heartened there aren't MORE people maiming and killing without remorse.

Just to be clear/fair, the OP never said there are more people in the black community who commit these acts.

If OP didn't say it directly, that was certainly the strong implication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I reject your premise that there are more people in the black community who "maim and kill without remorse" than in the larger community. I mean really, given the s*** we deal with that other people do not need to concern themselves with, I'm heartened there aren't MORE people maiming and killing without remorse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I reject your premise that there are more people in the black community who "maim and kill without remorse" than in the larger community. I mean really, given the s*** we deal with that other people do not need to concern themselves with, I'm heartened there aren't MORE people maiming and killing without remorse.

Just to be clear/fair, the OP never said there are more people in the black community who commit these acts.

If OP didn't say it directly, that was certainly the strong implication.

Respectfully disagree. This isn't a case of "if". Just read through the thread and it's clear that what you're saying was never suggested.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, as a black person, I have just accepted that racism is a real thing and that there is a huge, huge effort by many white people to deny its existence. So, I see the truth in things.

I see it. I accept that it's not a fair playing field. I accept that professionally I will struggle and have struggled in ways my white coworkers simply never will. I accept the study that demonstrates big law partners rate the writing of black attorneys more harshly than white attorneys. I accept things will never really change because most white people are fine with the ways things are. I accept that many white people refuse to admit that the past 50-75 years in this country is a minimal amount of time compared to the hundreds of years of horror black people have suffered through. I accept that wealth is probably unequal due to discriminatory hiring, lending, housing that benefited white people's grand parents and parents. I accept it all.

Then I get up, send my children to the best school we could find, go to work and do good work, go home, work with my children and drive them to classes and sports and activities. I make healthy food. I meditate. I practice self-care. I do all of the things to thrive. And I keep the rest out of my mind. Because I know it's there and I know there is no strong incentive to change things (if anything there is an incentive to deny, ignore and deflect).

I can't give it any more power or influence in my life. I can't change it. I refuse to engage it. It's not my doing or responsibility. And the premise that black people or minorities should speak to racism, own racism, fix racism is a farce. This is a white people's problem that many of them have little interest in fixing.

I choose to thrive. I choose to live.

Different black PP, but this is spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass.

+1 this website has so many racist and prejudice people.
I’m not about to have normal black get together convo on here. I call troll

+1, I'm starting to think so too. Don't think most black people would bring this up on DCUM and title it "my fellow Black DCUMers" knowing how few of us there are on this site, and how racist the responses will be.

Black guy here.
I agree.

OP, the black delegation has chosen to vacate and remand your case back to the lower courts.