Nannies and sick leave

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

Maybe. Regardless, it doesn’t matter for a nanny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

Then if you were eligible, you were not eligible just because of a cold. You were eligible because of the underlying condition which made you prone to having frequent colds.

The cold isn't the disability. The underlying condition is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

Maybe. Regardless, it doesn’t matter for a nanny.

Because nannies are robots and should be treated as such?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

Then if you were eligible, you were not eligible just because of a cold. You were eligible because of the underlying condition which made you prone to having frequent colds.

The cold isn't the disability. The underlying condition is.

And how do you know that a nanny doesn't have a similar underlying condition?

[Anonymous]

I don't. But that doesn't make a cold into a disability. It would be something else other than the cold.

(Which is still not, in itself, a disability.)

Why is this hard for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

Maybe. Regardless, it doesn’t matter for a nanny.

Because nannies are robots and should be treated as such?

What? No. Because the ADA doesn’t apply. Why is this so hard for everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How many sick days a nanny takes and number of times late are definitely things I ask during the reference check. Reliability is important to us.

Well, then you should know that you may be violating the ADA. Retaliating against someone for being sick is unethical and often illegal.

Nope. If the employer has less than 25 employees, the ADA does not apply.

You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up.

Nor is a cold a disability

Be careful with that. I have an autoimmune disorder and the medication I need to treat it causes me to be immunosuppressed. Therefore I catch colds and other illnesses more frequently than others despite taking a lot of precaution. In my case, time off needed for colds and other illnesses can be directly tied to my health condition which could be considered a disability. I am a teacher (I was diagnosed years into my teaching career), so I am exposed to lots of germs. A nanny might be in a similar situation.

A nanny might be in a similar situation. The nanny would also generally have to be able to fulfill the basic elements of the job, and any accommodations could not pose an undue burden on the employer. That's generally true for employment legislation at all levels of government, from ADA on down.

In your hypothetical situation, maybe she could fulfill the basic elements, but maybe she could not. I agree with you that it would depend on the details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP it sounds like you were in the position to offer lots of flexibility on arrival time and attendance. This is great for you and your nanny but you should be honest in providing a reference. If you lie, there is a good chance that things will not end well for your nanny and the new employer. Your nanny could very well end up fired then what will you do? Lie about her start dates to cover the gap in employment.

I think you have an idea that your nanny may have taken advantage of your generous leave benefits or you wouldn't be posting here. In over 25 years of employment, I have never taken two weeks of sick leave in a year. Honestly, I can't think of any employee who didn't develop something serious (cancer) that ever took this much and I managed multiple groups. Two weeks let alone more than two weeks of sick time without serious underlying healthy problems is a sign of a poor immune system or enjoying quite a few rest and relaxation days calling in sick. Being late 5% of the time is pretty frequent for an hourly job. OP -your job may not mind if you are late or don't have hard standard hours but many people have meetings or appointments and can't be late once or twice a month.

Your nanny either needs to find another very flexible position or she never really needed to late 5% of the time and take more than 2 weeks sick leave in a year.

OP here. These are not generous leave benefits. I get 2 weeks sick leave a year (I actually have much more because my employer rolls it over) so I give my nanny 2 weeks a year. And I give her 2 weeks annual leave - which seems absurdly short, but this is America.

And don't presume to judge that my nanny is taking advantage. I said previously that her honesty was one of the most important qualities for me. When she came back after having flu this February, she had lost about 4 kg

[Anonymous]

In 17 years I’ve taken 3 sick days and I’ve never been late. That’s something I pride myself on and something my employers appreciate. If I don’t come to work, they can’t go to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PS. To reiterate: "You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up."

But I CAN invoke state and local legislation that likely DOES apply (and in some cases is easier to invoke and gives greater damages). You're making a dumb point. The overall point is: it may be in many cases illegal to discriminate against a nanny for taking sick leave, either by refusing to hire her, or providing a bad reference because she took sick leave. This is employment law 101. What would you think if YOUR employer told a reference that you took all your sick leave as a way to suggest you were not a good employee?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't. But that doesn't make a cold into a disability. It would be something else other than the cold.

(Which is still not, in itself, a disability.)

Why is this hard for you?

why is it so hard for YOU to understand that any employer is wading into a minefield if they make employment decisions based on an employees use of sick leave (when apparently that sick leave was approved and used in the agreed upon manner?) obviously I know that run of the mill illnesses are not disabilities. But the point is that in many cases they could be - you just don't know the facts. AND in DC employees (including part-time) have a right to paid sick leave, and cannot be retaliated against for taking it. it's just dumb, dumb, dumb to inform a reference that your nanny took her CONTRACTUALLY AND/OR LEGALLY APPROVED sick leave. You should not say a word about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't. But that doesn't make a cold into a disability. It would be something else other than the cold.

(Which is still not, in itself, a disability.)

Why is this hard for you?

why is it so hard for YOU to understand that any employer is wading into a minefield if they make employment decisions based on an employees use of sick leave [1] (when apparently that sick leave was approved and used in the agreed upon manner?) obviously I know that run of the mill illnesses are not disabilities. But the point is that in many cases they could be - you just don't know the facts. AND in DC employees (including part-time) have a right to paid sick leave, and cannot be retaliated against for taking it. it's just dumb, dumb, dumb to inform a reference that your nanny took her CONTRACTUALLY AND/OR LEGALLY APPROVED sick leave. You should not say a word about it.

[1] Yeah, it is. I never said it wasn't. (???)

I said private nannies aren't covered by the ADA, and they aren't. I agreed with another poster that a mere cold doesn't count as a disability, and it doesn't. You seem -- unhinged? Kind of rant-y?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS. To reiterate: "You can argue about what she should and shouldn't do, but you can't invoke ADA legislation to back you up."

But I CAN invoke state and local legislation that likely DOES apply (and in some cases is easier to invoke and gives greater damages). You're making a dumb point. The overall point is: it may be in many cases illegal to discriminate against a nanny for taking sick leave, either by refusing to hire her, or providing a bad reference because she took sick leave. This is employment law 101. What would you think if YOUR employer told a reference that you took all your sick leave as a way to suggest you were not a good employee?

If they told me that I was covered by the ADA, as their single employee, I'd think they were a moron.

If they were wrong about something and too butthurt to admit it, I'd think they were a twit.

If they wanted to discuss the actual legislation pertaining to my status, then we'd have a good conversation. I certainly wouldn't be pointing out where they are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't. But that doesn't make a cold into a disability. It would be something else other than the cold.

(Which is still not, in itself, a disability.)

Why is this hard for you?

why is it so hard for YOU to understand that any employer is wading into a minefield if they make employment decisions based on an employees use of sick leave [1] (when apparently that sick leave was approved and used in the agreed upon manner?) obviously I know that run of the mill illnesses are not disabilities. But the point is that in many cases they could be - you just don't know the facts. AND in DC employees (including part-time) have a right to paid sick leave, and cannot be retaliated against for taking it. it's just dumb, dumb, dumb to inform a reference that your nanny took her CONTRACTUALLY AND/OR LEGALLY APPROVED sick leave. You should not say a word about it.

[1] Yeah, it is. I never said it wasn't. (???)

I said private nannies aren't covered by the ADA, and they aren't. I agreed with another poster that a mere cold doesn't count as a disability, and it doesn't. You seem -- unhinged? Kind of rant-y?

again, the ADA is a red herring since nannies absolutely are covered by many state & local anti-discrimination laws. Why do you keep on fixating on the ADA? you sound like a nightmare employer.