MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't share what was happening in your school.

Ok, that's fair. Students who yell and curse at you. Students who are allowed by admin to not follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, which causes a domino effect as soon as one doesn't have to follow a rule. Once admin tells them they don't have to follow a rule, then they have zero respect for you as the adult in charge whereas admin comes in to "fix" the problem but then is nowhere to be found once they've created this detrimental dynamic between you and the student. Students who scream directly in your ear when they don't like what you ask for them to do. Students who throw objects at you. Admins who encourage teachers to put themselves between students who are physically fighting. Students who disrupt the learning environment nearly every day for the 20 something other students in the room and we're told to not do anything that will set them off --like complete their assigned work--but we're held responsible when they haven't completed assignments.

These are not students with IEPs or students who are allowed to be brought up for EMTs. Elementary school. -OP

OMG, this is untenable. You should not have to suffer, and what’s worse, the other students suffer. Can you get the other teachers and the union together to organize a sit-out?

This happens in so many schools. Ask your kids! Ask whether there were any issues in the classroom today? If you’re willing to listen, I bet your kid will report back on all sorts of horror stories.

Teachers are in a really bad position. Students know that they can get away with terrible behavior. And principals don’t want to acknowledge anything that reflects poorly on the school.

This is it in a nutshell. Especially princials not wanting to acknowledge anything that would reflect poorly on their school, because then they have to be held accountable for it. So many spineless administrators currently in school buildings.

Honestly, the biggest issue is the parents. The parents of troublemakers and bullies who don't want to accept any kind of responsibility or who refuse to admit that their child is a problem. I've seen entitled or ignorant parents fight with administrators to keep their kid in a classroom where the child has clearly have been violent or disruptive.

I agree with this as well. What we hear from parents of these kids is crazy. They accuse us of lying, of targeting their kid, of framing their kid etc. Kids flat out lie to their parents to get their parents to come in with guns blazing and the parents don't even want to hear what the school has to say--they take what their kid tells them as gospel.

We get "You have it in for Larlo! You didn't give him a PBIS ticket when every other kid got one! You're racist!"
Me: "Mrs. Larla, the reason Larlo didn't earn a ticket during whole group was because he was standing up and shouting while I was teaching a lesson. He was preventing the other students from accessing the lesson, and refused to sit down and stop shouting even after I had asked him 3 times."
Mrs. Larla: "That's not true at all. Larlo said he was sitting quietly just like all the other students."
Me: "Unfortunately he didn't tell you the truth. I had two other adults in the classroom who also witnessed what happened."
Mrs. Larla: "You all must think he's shouting when he's just talking. He's just a loud talker."
Me: "This was not his speaking voice. He was shouting so loud that teachers in classrooms down the hall could hear."
Mrs. Larla: "That's not even possible. He never shouts at home. It must have been someone else they heard and you're blaming it on him. I expect that if he's in the classroom for the lesson that he gets the same rewards as the other students do. You have it in for him and I don't know why. This school is racist. I'm going to the news to expose you all."

When I told admin about this conversation, they told me to not contact the mother anymore and ignore Larlo's behavior to get mom to back down. So now I'm not supposed to document Larlo's disruptive behavior at all and of course it has now escalated because Larlo knows that he can do whatever he wants because his mom will believe him and has completely discredited us. Never mind the 20 something other kids who are entitled to an education. Avoiding issues with Larlo's mom takes priority. Then others see that students like Larlo don't face any consequences and they start seeing what they can get away with as well. It's a terrible learning environment.

[Anonymous]

Administrator here who has gone to bat for my staff more than once with my director. It’s very difficult to get a student suspended. Even more so if the student is not white. Teachers are absolutely correct in saying that hands are tied. I’ll bring parents in to meet with them regarding their children’s behavior and most of them see the same struggles at home but lack the skill set to actually parent their children and hold them accountable. Our society is a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an MCPS teacher and trying to find out how systemic of an issue this is. Our admin says their hands are tied due to the student code of conduct. We are expected to put up with verbal and physical abuse from students. In my opinion it's because administrators are spineless and don't want their bosses at central office to know what's really going on in their buildings because it reflects poorly on them. MCEA has been useless. What is going on in your building? Is my building an anomaly or the norm in MCPS?

OP,

I could give you scenario after scenario that would make you feel better - at least temporarily - and I'm HS. While I won't go into detail, you can imagine how hardened kids get once they hit middle and high school. Many are also dangerous.

I'll share this one story, however, b/c it's one of my successes. I had a transfer from a PG alternative. He made my skin crawl. He was sexually aggressive and violent. After following "protocol" for three months, I finally took matters into my own hands by saying something (I knew his triggers.) that made him threaten me. It wasn't what I said; it was how I said it. So you can imagine how many triggers he had. His threat was so vile that he was out the next day.

The girls in my class (9th grade) were so relieved. I did it for them. I'm no stranger to bad behavior - and I'm also not a pushover. But he exhausted me, as it took almost a semester to get rid of him.

We can blame the Code of (mis)Conduct for our current (hopeless) situation. And the union is a joke. If you want to get anything done, work on mobilizing your colleagues. Collect data (observational, no tone!!!!) and log EVERYTHING into the comm log. There's power and safety in numbers.

Exactly. And maybe figure out a way for the kids to tell their parents what is going on. I posted back in ‘08 or ‘09 about getting rid of a bad actor in 1st or 2nd grade (thankfully I can’t remember now) but the kid was removed after parents got involved and threatened to call police.

Sad, isn't it?

So many kids can suffer due to the actions of 1 or 2 kids.

I know there are good administrators out there. I've had a quite a few, but those were dying breeds. The few today who still have a spine are working against their directors to keep their schools safe. Central office is a joke - another layer of people paid too much money to protect themselves.

It's beyond disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The union is worthless. They will pretend like they are interested in hearing about it, but then will turn right around and tell your admin who talked to them.

That's really a shame. Who elects the leaders of the union, and how do they keep getting re-elected? Seems like the issue is widespread.

[Anonymous]

Isn't this all happening because the Board of Ed shut down the school for kids with behavioral problems? Twain or RICA I think it was called?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In ES would be the time when so many special needs are identified. So it surprises me to hear that you can’t bring them up for EMTs. Sounds like a bad principal.

Do you read the SN boards? So many of us have to fight for services and spend a fortune on evaluations and advocates and other of us, like me, just give up as we know the teachers and principal (except the rare gem of a teacher) will not help and just ignore it if its not making them look bad. They don't care if our kids are struggling.

To the poster that the child has a lot of late.. my child has therapy sessions and doesn't want anyone to know. So, yes, I don't give a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Administrator here who has gone to bat for my staff more than once with my director. It’s very difficult to get a student suspended. Even more so if the student is not white. Teachers are absolutely correct in saying that hands are tied. I’ll bring parents in to meet with them regarding their children’s behavior and most of them see the same struggles at home but lack the skill set to actually parent their children and hold them accountable. Our society is a mess.

As a parent of a child who has faced significant harm from this-both physical and mental-it really is not that hard to suspend someone. Having a principal or other administrator not due the right thing is child abuse. You have an obligation to protect students from this period. The harm that you are doing, from a parent that has gone through this is life changing for the children that are hurt. Please do the right thing. Thank you for going to bat for your students but really please stop letting innocent kids like mine get hurt. Unacceptable plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our Focus ES, we have had so many issues. Kids who start fights IN class. Right in front of the teacher. Kids throwing chairs and desks. Definitely kids who run out of the classroom.

Admin is terrible and there are zero meaningful consequences. Just a useless focus on PBIS. And more conferences on how to implement PBIS properly.

We had a 4th grader last year who was acting out constantly. One of the young teachers (well-meaning) asked the other students in the class to actually write a note to this kid because he obviously wasn’t ‘feeling well’.

As a mom with two young teen girls, I was horrified. Are they trying to teach the girls in that class that when your spouse acts out or acts violently, the appropriate response is to make sure he’s feeling okay?

Again, parents who know this abuse goes on bed to rally other parents, document, and push up the chain. Get the Dads involved. If anyone is injured - physically or emotionally - you have reason to demand these kids be removed. There are many kids entering the system who have experienced trauma - they are not magically going to act like well adjusted MCPS students. They need deeper interventions with psychologists and educators before being put in regular classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't share what was happening in your school.

Ok, that's fair. Students who yell and curse at you. Students who are allowed by admin to not follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, which causes a domino effect as soon as one doesn't have to follow a rule. Once admin tells them they don't have to follow a rule, then they have zero respect for you as the adult in charge whereas admin comes in to "fix" the problem but then is nowhere to be found once they've created this detrimental dynamic between you and the student. Students who scream directly in your ear when they don't like what you ask for them to do. Students who throw objects at you. Admins who encourage teachers to put themselves between students who are physically fighting. Students who disrupt the learning environment nearly every day for the 20 something other students in the room and we're told to not do anything that will set them off --like complete their assigned work--but we're held responsible when they haven't completed assignments.

These are not students with IEPs or students who are allowed to be brought up for EMTs. Elementary school. -OP

OMG, this is untenable. You should not have to suffer, and what’s worse, the other students suffer. Can you get the other teachers and the union together to organize a sit-out?

The union is worthless. They will pretend like they are interested in hearing about it, but then will turn right around and tell your admin who talked to them. Then it's game over. There are always martyr teachers in the building who believe that they are betraying their students if they put their own safety and needs first, so not all teachers in the building would go along with a sit out or something of that nature. Then it creates a huge divide in the school and those people are praised while the others get labeled with being selfish and not caring enough about the students. -OP

I’m the pp. This is worse than I thought. Have parents of the affected kids complained and pushed this up the ladder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Administrator here who has gone to bat for my staff more than once with my director. It’s very difficult to get a student suspended. Even more so if the student is not white. Teachers are absolutely correct in saying that hands are tied. I’ll bring parents in to meet with them regarding their children’s behavior and most of them see the same struggles at home but lack the skill set to actually parent their children and hold them accountable. Our society is a mess.

As a parent of a child who has faced significant harm from this-both physical and mental-it really is not that hard to suspend someone. Having a principal or other administrator not due the right thing is child abuse. You have an obligation to protect students from this period. The harm that you are doing, from a parent that has gone through this is life changing for the children that are hurt. Please do the right thing. Thank you for going to bat for your students but really please stop letting innocent kids like mine get hurt. Unacceptable plain and simple.

If only it were that simple. My SIL is an elementary principal in the county and she's been in very heated arguments with her director about needing to get certain kids suspended and it's been denied time after time. When these requests are denied, she will have the student stay in the front office the next day doing school work to try and maintain some normalcy for the teacher and students. However, it becomes next to impossible to handle all of her other obligations like visiting classrooms to ensure quality instruction is happening. Teachers think principals are the enemy, principals think directors are the enemy. Stuff rolls down hill. Whoever is sitting at the top needs to spend a week in an elementary school and see that the code of conduct is a joke and restorative justice doesn't mean anything to a 8 year old suffering from trauma.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a teacher problem. You have to make the students respect you. You are not their friend. You are their teacher. Say this on the first day and repeat every day. Students do what you allow them to do. When a child gets crazy with me or gets an attitude with me, I get crazier right back at them. They know I do not play. The “troubled” kids get sent to my class. They don’t mess up with me because I set the tone and the environment in which they are in. I hold them accountable. When my door closes, it is me against the children. Forget rules and regulations, I do what is in the best interest of the children. You play around in my class when you are supposed to be working, then you owe me recess considering you already had your time to free play in my class.

[Anonymous]

We need school board members who will run on a promise to dump this disciplinary system or to reform it. And the parents of the 98% of students who want to learn to hold the system accountable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Administrator here who has gone to bat for my staff more than once with my director. It’s very difficult to get a student suspended. Even more so if the student is not white. Teachers are absolutely correct in saying that hands are tied. I’ll bring parents in to meet with them regarding their children’s behavior and most of them see the same struggles at home but lack the skill set to actually parent their children and hold them accountable. Our society is a mess.

So then what are schools with a large population of non white students supposed to do? Do you work in such a school? What DO you do with these students as an administrator if you can't suspend them, but a white student would have been? Do you understand just how disruptive this behavior is to the other students in the classroom and how it impacts them? And then you ask why students aren't meeting proficiency? Newsflash--classrooms where students have disruptive behavior means that it impacts EVERY child in that class. A student's "right" to be disruptive and abusive does not supercede the rights of every other child in that class, not to mention the teacher who has to deal with the abuse every day. More teachers are being diagnosed with anxiety disorders and PTSD for a reason.

This is what happens when MCPS cares more about being able to put out a press release about how they've decreased their suspension rate (which doesn't mean the behaviors have decreased AT ALL) than what's actually going on in classrooms and schools. All administrators who are not actively trying to put an end to the current situation in MCPS are guilty of being part of the problem. Don't just sit there and tell me your hands are tied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn't this all happening because the Board of Ed shut down the school for kids with behavioral problems? Twain or RICA I think it was called?

Alt isn't for ED kids. The ED students are sent (if schools are successful in getting them in) to an ED program housed either in their own schools or in another school.

Alt Programs is for level 2 and 3 kids who chronically misbehave or who have "popped" and committed a violent act (a bad fight, for example).

RICA is still in existence, but it's a state and local day and residential program. Twain closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a teacher problem. You have to make the students respect you. You are not their friend. You are their teacher. Say this on the first day and repeat every day. Students do what you allow them to do. When a child gets crazy with me or gets an attitude with me, I get crazier right back at them. They know I do not play. The “troubled” kids get sent to my class. They don’t mess up with me because I set the tone and the environment in which they are in. I hold them accountable. When my door closes, it is me against the children. Forget rules and regulations, I do what is in the best interest of the children. You play around in my class when you are supposed to be working, then you owe me recess considering you already had your time to free play in my class.

They also do what their "parents" allow them to do. They do it for five years before they enter the school system. Then, they continue to do what their "parents" allow them to do. When they come up against a different system (school), many of them react badly. This is what we teachers get to experience every day. I've had students cuss me out, spit at me, throw stuff (it is amazing how strong young kids can be!), attack other students, threaten me and other students and destroy my classroom. These are elementary students. Many, many months later, some of these students are moved into different placements but not all of them. These students don't care about missed recess.