MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having the kid go to therapy or talk about their feelings with an adult all day as part of a restorative approach is much more of a consequence than suspending. Suspensions are just days off for them with no consequence. Unless the kid is a true psychopath or has extremely low intellectual capacity, they can really benefit from therapy and talking about their problems. Unfortunately, the admin has to really embrace the process and put in the time to build that relationship. It takes really compassionate and committed admin.

Public schools don’t have the funding and it is not their responsibility for kids to have therapy. That falls on the parents, which it should.

Do you know how hard it is to find child therapists who are accessible to low or even moderate income families? And that’s if the family believes in therapy and trusts the therapist. There are huge structural barriers to families getting their child therapy. Just getting the child to and from appointments is a challenge for anyone who works full time. The schools can’t just give up on these kids. I don’t know what the answer is, and there are problems with MCPS’s current policies and how they are implemented. But just giving up on small kids, calling them “bad” and kicking them out is NOT an acceptable answer.

Once again, it is not the school's job to parent children and I certainly don't want my taxes to go towards therapy for kids when schools are literally falling apart and the teacher/student ratio is too high.

You know what is free to the poor? Condoms and birth control. Even abortions are free. Putting kids up for adoption is free too. Abandoning a child at a police station, fire house, or hospital is too. No questions asked.

If you are going to have a baby, be ready to raise it. If you going to pop out 5, you better be able to afford them all too.


Once again, the school's job is to educate children and they can barely do that at this point. If you feel so strongly about this, I would suggest reaching out to social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists and ask if they can donate their time to work with kids in the school for free. Maybe donate half of your paycheck on this. Ask the public if they would be okay with raising taxes again to support it. Go at it. See how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

Because just like a corrupt business anywhere, they are looking to move up in their jobs and get out of where they are now. The only way to do that is to appease the people above them, not below them.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

Because just like a corrupt business anywhere, they are looking to move up in their jobs and get out of where they are now. The only way to do that is to appease the people above them, not below them.

Of course, but that was my point because teachers cannot do anything publicly, parents who are not financially tied to the system yet have a high stake in their children's education, can do a lot IF they can come together as an organized group. It's a matter of putting pressure on the principals, pressure will get them to budge and do the right thing (or risk losing their jobs because they come off as not in control and incompetent). For example, in a situation similar to the one described by the teacher earlier in the thread, the teacher should privately document whatever they can. Many of the kids have also witnessed the events and can and do provide information to the parents. This is primarily how the parents and DCUM, etc. are aware of these things. Parents can then send an organized message to the principal/administration about what was seen and what is being done to address it. It's a matter of numbers; one parent will not sway anyone, but a larger group of them can (and have done it). For example the Haycock Elementary (over in FCPS in VA) PTA/parent group was able to replace a new principal within a matter of months. But there has to be a tight knit community of parents who stand up for their school to start (in Haycock's case the parent group is very active). On the teacher side, I'm confident that if they see a strong group of parents representing the school and speaking out, they will join in to assist whenever they can (subversively if they have to, as to not risk their job). But it absolutely can be done as a team, parents have to initiate it as a group and lead. There is no other way to uproot corruption; it has to be done slowly and targeted to one school at a time whenever large issues affecting learning/teaching pop up at specific school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

Because just like a corrupt business anywhere, they are looking to move up in their jobs and get out of where they are now. The only way to do that is to appease the people above them, not below them.

Of course, but that was my point because teachers cannot do anything publicly, parents who are not financially tied to the system yet have a high stake in their children's education, can do a lot IF they can come together as an organized group. It's a matter of putting pressure on the principals, pressure will get them to budge and do the right thing (or risk losing their jobs because they come off as not in control and incompetent). For example, in a situation similar to the one described by the teacher earlier in the thread, the teacher should privately document whatever they can. Many of the kids have also witnessed the events and can and do provide information to the parents. This is primarily how the parents and DCUM, etc. are aware of these things. Parents can then send an organized message to the principal/administration about what was seen and what is being done to address it. It's a matter of numbers; one parent will not sway anyone, but a larger group of them can (and have done it). For example the Haycock Elementary (over in FCPS in VA) PTA/parent group was able to replace a new principal within a matter of months. But there has to be a tight knit community of parents who stand up for their school to start (in Haycock's case the parent group is very active). On the teacher side, I'm confident that if they see a strong group of parents representing the school and speaking out, they will join in to assist whenever they can (subversively if they have to, as to not risk their job). But it absolutely can be done as a team, parents have to initiate it as a group and lead. There is no other way to uproot corruption; it has to be done slowly and targeted to one school at a time whenever large issues affecting learning/teaching pop up at specific school.

Maybe this is why the BOE likes to mess with the schools so much. We have a CES at our school and it totally affects the sense of community. Kids come and go so it’s definitely not as tight-knit as if it were the same groups of families year after year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

As a teacher, I really appreciate parents like you. Maybe I've been in the system for too long and have seen too many things happen like this, but in my experience something like this will just come back to bite teachers. The BOE, central office and school administrators will find a way to put it all on teachers. They will NEVER take accountability for putting teachers in this position. They also know how to spin public opinion of teachers so we'll all just wind up looking like uncaring, incompetent, greedy people. It's lose lose because the corruption is so pervasive.

I've had the opportunity to be on committees with BOE members in attendance and central office staff serving on the committees. Without fail, they *all* are self-serving and have their own agendas. Every single one of the BOE members have higher political aspirations or other agendas to further their own careers. Central office administrators are also politicians in training. They really don't give a crap about the people working under them, and will absolutely throw teachers under the bus if it means preserving their own agendas. No sweat off their back because they know the public will buy whatever they're selling. Just look at how most of the people on this site write about teachers--MCPS will know exactly how to spin it to turn the public against teachers instead of addressing the root cause of the issue and the corruption surrounding it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

As a teacher, I really appreciate parents like you. Maybe I've been in the system for too long and have seen too many things happen like this, but in my experience something like this will just come back to bite teachers. The BOE, central office and school administrators will find a way to put it all on teachers. They will NEVER take accountability for putting teachers in this position. They also know how to spin public opinion of teachers so we'll all just wind up looking like uncaring, incompetent, greedy people. It's lose lose because the corruption is so pervasive.

I've had the opportunity to be on committees with BOE members in attendance and central office staff serving on the committees. Without fail, they *all* are self-serving and have their own agendas. Every single one of the BOE members have higher political aspirations or other agendas to further their own careers. Central office administrators are also politicians in training. They really don't give a crap about the people working under them, and will absolutely throw teachers under the bus if it means preserving their own agendas. No sweat off their back because they know the public will buy whatever they're selling. Just look at how most of the people on this site write about teachers--MCPS will know exactly how to spin it to turn the public against teachers instead of addressing the root cause of the issue and the corruption surrounding it.

I agree with you about the admins being the root cause of most of the issues in schools (teachers a very small part by comparison). I also think that by having discussions here on large public forums, and by having parents mobilize, it will educate parents on where the real problems in our schools lie (i.e some teachers not doing a good enough job teaching is small problem compared to the safety and disruption issues brought up on this board). Also, my general impression from reading all these threads is that most parents are already fed up with the school system, (i.e the administration that runs the schools; NOT the teachers). Sure there's some teacher hating due to specific teachers not doing a good job, (and sometimes a few crazy parents), but the overwhelming number of pressing issues brought up on these education forums is with the administration and how schools are run. I think the key fact is that most parents already understand that teachers are no longer in control of their environment and are not allowed to autonomously teach Effectively, teachers do not have a voice and cannot take part in helping run the school or making teaching decisions and they've already experienced that when admins make teaching decisions on their behalf, the results are poor.

I agree with you that while almost all high ups are political and prefer the status quo to serving the public,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

As a teacher, I really appreciate parents like you. Maybe I've been in the system for too long and have seen too many things happen like this, but in my experience something like this will just come back to bite teachers. The BOE, central office and school administrators will find a way to put it all on teachers. They will NEVER take accountability for putting teachers in this position. They also know how to spin public opinion of teachers so we'll all just wind up looking like uncaring, incompetent, greedy people. It's lose lose because the corruption is so pervasive.

I've had the opportunity to be on committees with BOE members in attendance and central office staff serving on the committees. Without fail, they *all* are self-serving and have their own agendas. Every single one of the BOE members have higher political aspirations or other agendas to further their own careers. Central office administrators are also politicians in training. They really don't give a crap about the people working under them, and will absolutely throw teachers under the bus if it means preserving their own agendas. No sweat off their back because they know the public will buy whatever they're selling. Just look at how most of the people on this site write about teachers--MCPS will know exactly how to spin it to turn the public against teachers instead of addressing the root cause of the issue and the corruption surrounding it.

I think your description suggests that many teachers have already given up. To me this is sad because it means things will not get any better. But I want to reiterate that most parents have minimal issues with teachers as compared to the administration running the schools. I think this is a fact based on all the data on these boards. This is why parents (not teachers) need to spearhead movements to empower teachers and work for what is right in schools, starting with their own schools. Mobilized parents are the ONLY group that the high ups running the school are afraid of.

I don't think you should give up here. I want to come back to my earlier example of Haycock Elementary in VA: One large reason they were able to push out the principal was because many great teachers there did not agree to the types of changes he wanted to enforce (related to watering down excellent programs that had proven themselves over time, etc.). Many veteran teachers spoke out and even announced they would leave. The parent group respected and stood with the teachers on this issue. It is not the principal's right to make a teaching decision on behalf of the teachers and without teacher support. Because they had a good partnership with teachers, the parent group was able to make themselves heard and call out the issues. Now, I realize that this example is pretty ideal and the level of support for teachers combined with driven parents is NOT found at every school, but I don't see why we can't take small steps in that direction for every school. The community (teachers and parents) need to come together as a team, not only because it benefits children and serves the public, but it also can prevent things from slipping from bad to worse at schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.

I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.

If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.

Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.

Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!

And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.

This is telling, because it suggests to me the school system is corrupt at the principal level and above. How can a principal allow this to happen to their teachers? I know that teachers that speak up are at fear of losing their job, but it is completely unacceptable to ignore verbal and physical abuse. This is a clear line that the principal needs to draw and initiate suspension, followed by expulsion if repeated. Multiple posts here are suggesting that they don't want to do that because it would look bad in the books and they don't want inconvenient data points. But that is exactly what full blown corruption is.

Teachers and others, what can we as parents do to help here? Are there options for parents to come together and help the teachers take back their school? If multiple parents at schools organize and protest when things like this happen, it should result in pressure on the principal to do the right thing. I definitely think that parents as a group need to make the principal accountable through any means, including legal action if necessary. If the principal is not assigning consequences to threats or violence against teachers (never mind other kids), they are not promoting a safe environment. If teachers have to worry about safety, and they cannot speak up for what's right, who else can do it but the parents?

As a teacher, I really appreciate parents like you. Maybe I've been in the system for too long and have seen too many things happen like this, but in my experience something like this will just come back to bite teachers. The BOE, central office and school administrators will find a way to put it all on teachers. They will NEVER take accountability for putting teachers in this position. They also know how to spin public opinion of teachers so we'll all just wind up looking like uncaring, incompetent, greedy people. It's lose lose because the corruption is so pervasive.

I've had the opportunity to be on committees with BOE members in attendance and central office staff serving on the committees. Without fail, they *all* are self-serving and have their own agendas. Every single one of the BOE members have higher political aspirations or other agendas to further their own careers. Central office administrators are also politicians in training. They really don't give a crap about the people working under them, and will absolutely throw teachers under the bus if it means preserving their own agendas. No sweat off their back because they know the public will buy whatever they're selling. Just look at how most of the people on this site write about teachers--MCPS will know exactly how to spin it to turn the public against teachers instead of addressing the root cause of the issue and the corruption surrounding it.

I think your description suggests that many teachers have already given up. To me this is sad because it means things will not get any better. But I want to reiterate that most parents have minimal issues with teachers as compared to the administration running the schools. I think this is a fact based on all the data on these boards. This is why parents (not teachers) need to spearhead movements to empower teachers and work for what is right in schools, starting with their own schools. Mobilized parents are the ONLY group that the high ups running the school are afraid of.

I don't think you should give up here. I want to come back to my earlier example of Haycock Elementary in VA: One large reason they were able to push out the principal was because many great teachers there did not agree to the types of changes he wanted to enforce (related to watering down excellent programs that had proven themselves over time, etc.). Many veteran teachers spoke out and even announced they would leave. The parent group respected and stood with the teachers on this issue. It is not the principal's right to make a teaching decision on behalf of the teachers and without teacher support. Because they had a good partnership with teachers, the parent group was able to make themselves heard and call out the issues. Now, I realize that this example is pretty ideal and the level of support for teachers combined with driven parents is NOT found at every school, but I don't see why we can't take small steps in that direction for every school. The community (teachers and parents) need to come together as a team, not only because it benefits children and serves the public, but it also can prevent things from slipping from bad to worse at schools.

I'm a parent and I agree with this 100%. I feel this way for sure.

We have had some violent episodes and the teachers have expressed that parents need to go to admin because the teachers felt they had no voice.

[Anonymous]

Haycock PTA was especially effective, I agree. I'm not jealous or spite-filled but schools filled with the offspring of the rich and powerful usually do get what they want.

[Anonymous]

I was a teacher in MCPS and did not get a contract so now I am presently not a teacher. A good teacher needs good classroom management and leadership skills. When they try to manage a classroom so students don't disrespect, misbehave, or get destructive they are labeled as a shit teacher in the review process even if it's working. We take true data but adminisration does not want true data they want fraud numbers so they look good. MCEA will back up this concept because it's about making money off a broken system and telling the first year teachers that they are the ones that broke it. So first year teacher wake up ur fuct before your start if you are a truth teller and a good teacher with morals and consciences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't share what was happening in your school.

Ok, that's fair. Students who yell and curse at you. Students who are allowed by admin to not follow the rules that everyone else has to follow, which causes a domino effect as soon as one doesn't have to follow a rule. Once admin tells them they don't have to follow a rule, then they have zero respect for you as the adult in charge whereas admin comes in to "fix" the problem but then is nowhere to be found once they've created this detrimental dynamic between you and the student. Students who scream directly in your ear when they don't like what you ask for them to do. Students who throw objects at you. Admins who encourage teachers to put themselves between students who are physically fighting. Students who disrupt the learning environment nearly every day for the 20 something other students in the room and we're told to not do anything that will set them off --like complete their assigned work--but we're held responsible when they haven't completed assignments.

These are not students with IEPs or students who are allowed to be brought up for EMTs. Elementary school. -OP

OMG, this is untenable. You should not have to suffer, and what’s worse, the other students suffer. Can you get the other teachers and the union together to organize a sit-out?

This happens in so many schools. Ask your kids! Ask whether there were any issues in the classroom today? If you’re willing to listen, I bet your kid will report back on all sorts of horror stories.

Teachers are in a really bad position. Students know that they can get away with terrible behavior. And principals don’t want to acknowledge anything that reflects poorly on the school.

This is it in a nutshell. Especially princials not wanting to acknowledge anything that would reflect poorly on their school, because then they have to be held accountable for it. So many spineless administrators currently in school buildings.

Honestly, the biggest issue is the parents. The parents of troublemakers and bullies who don't want to accept any kind of responsibility or who refuse to admit that their child is a problem. I've seen entitled or ignorant parents fight with administrators to keep their kid in a classroom where the child has clearly have been violent or disruptive.

I agree with this as well. What we hear from parents of these kids is crazy. They accuse us of lying, of targeting their kid, of framing their kid etc. Kids flat out lie to their parents to get their parents to come in with guns blazing and the parents don't even want to hear what the school has to say--they take what their kid tells them as gospel.

We get "You have it in for Larlo! You didn't give him a PBIS ticket when every other kid got one! You're racist!"
Me: "Mrs. Larla, the reason Larlo didn't earn a ticket during whole group was because he was standing up and shouting while I was teaching a lesson. He was preventing the other students from accessing the lesson, and refused to sit down and stop shouting even after I had asked him 3 times."
Mrs. Larla: "That's not true at all. Larlo said he was sitting quietly just like all the other students."
Me: "Unfortunately he didn't tell you the truth. I had two other adults in the classroom who also witnessed what happened."
Mrs. Larla: "You all must think he's shouting when he's just talking. He's just a loud talker."
Me: "This was not his speaking voice. He was shouting so loud that teachers in classrooms down the hall could hear."
Mrs. Larla: "That's not even possible. He never shouts at home. It must have been someone else they heard and you're blaming it on him. I expect that if he's in the classroom for the lesson that he gets the same rewards as the other students do. You have it in for him and I don't know why. This school is racist. I'm going to the news to expose you all."

When I told admin about this conversation, they told me to not contact the mother anymore and ignore Larlo's behavior to get mom to back down. So now I'm not supposed to document Larlo's disruptive behavior at all and of course it has now escalated because Larlo knows that he can do whatever he wants because his mom will believe him and has completely discredited us. Never mind the 20 something other kids who are entitled to an education. Avoiding issues with Larlo's mom takes priority. Then others see that students like Larlo don't face any consequences and they start seeing what they can get away with as well. It's a terrible learning environment.

OMG yes. You wrote this and I swear this was my experience at least 8 times a year. These enabling parents.

[Anonymous]

I see this too I my school. If a kid has an IEP or is a minority, they don’t seem have many consequences other becoming a BFF with someone in admin or SPEd.

[Anonymous]

Public schools have a nearly impossible task

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a teacher in MCPS and did not get a contract so now I am presently not a teacher. A good teacher needs good classroom management and leadership skills. When they try to manage a classroom so students don't disrespect, misbehave, or get destructive they are labeled as a shit teacher in the review process even if it's working. We take true data but adminisration does not want true data they want fraud numbers so they look good. MCEA will back up this concept because it's about making money off a broken system and telling the first year teachers that they are the ones that broke it. So first year teacher wake up ur fuct before your start if you are a truth teller and a good teacher with morals and consciences.

You are not making a strong case here for the idea that your brave truth-telling is why you didn't get a contract.

[Anonymous]

You have a great rubber room job teacher bashing. Seriously, you hear teachers letting out very hard truths and the only support you can give is to bash teachers. This sounds like the MCPS rubber room. When principals get in trouble they don't get fired like teacher(who don't even do wrong most of the time)they get promoted to be hacks on teachers. Cases keep coming out of principals who endanger lives and get promoted.