Struck Out in DC school lottery....Tell/Sell me in your non-W School Cluster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I'd suggest Falls Church. Prices are rising but there are still some smaller houses in Falls Church in your price range. You can take the blue/orange line into DC and if you ever change jobs to VA you are already there.

We're considering this move now from Montgomery County and have co-workers out there who really like it. We came here from DC for the schools too but have been disappointed. I like the AAP model in VA and we're starting to think about college so in state tuition options are better in VA too.

Posted from VA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Kentlands/Lakelands for RCES.

Oh god no. The HOA is insane! Everyone is in everyone else's business. Its a 90 minute commute to DC unless you get to work from 5 am until 2 pm. The development and houses are dated and while residents are excited that a new developer is going to try to turn it around, there is not a positive history of restaurants and businesses lasting long there.

Whatever -- if you don't like it here, we're glad you don't live here.

We love it.

Did you know not everyone works in DC, so the commute to DC is irrelevant?

Also, did you know everything becomes dated after awhile and that's what renovations are for? I would rather live in a walkable community with great amenities than live in some sad little 1950s split-level with no sidewalks around it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP - I'd suggest Falls Church. Prices are rising but there are still some smaller houses in Falls Church in your price range. You can take the blue/orange line into DC and if you ever change jobs to VA you are already there.

We're considering this move now from Montgomery County and have co-workers out there who really like it. We came here from DC for the schools too but have been disappointed. I like the AAP model in VA and we're starting to think about college so in state tuition options are better in VA too.


Posted from VA

Nope. I've watched several friends and neighbors leave MoCo for Arlington, McLean and others areas in VA. They are super happy and even happier because they have a ton of equity now. We are kicking ourselves for not leaving sooner. I would never recommend MoCo to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
- Socioeconomic diversity but nothing above 30% FARMS/ESOL population


1. There are 2 FARMS to look at to understand the poverty demographics. The % of current students currently on FARMS and % of current students who have ever been on FARMS. Some kids drop off FARMS because their parents start earning more money but this usually isn't that much more. Some students stop submitting the paperwork in high school for FARMS so the 'has ever been on FARMS' number is better representation of need.

2. You will have a hard time finding a 500K 4 bedroom house with a nice yard anywhere with less than 30% currently on FARMS let alone ever been on FARMS.

Either up your budget or lower your expectations.

Renting is a better bet in MoCo anyway as the county is stagnating. You're likely to loose or make no equity over the next few years so renting is better financially -in this are- anyway.

Rents are high in the nicer areas of the west with the better schools and low in the eastern side. However, there are magnet programs all over the county so if you end up in Silver Spring you might be OK if you get into a magnet.


This is helpful! Thank you! We will still perhaps make a purchase after renting. Why is the county stagnating? I assume all cities or towns go through cyclical growth and downturns.

The county is in serious financial trouble.

There has been zero new business growth. The smaller and local businesses in MoCo either fail or move over to Howard and Frederick. The larger business sectors are all in VA. There have been many articles on this but MoCo is very unfriendly to businesses so they can't survive. This cuts off a source of revenue for the county and means that most people in MoCo have to commute to VA or DC for work.

MoCo demographics also hurt the revenue. The largest growing groups are retirees and lower income hispanic residents. (FTR there isn't evidence that the explosion in low income hispanic residents is from undocumented workers. ) Wealth is only concentrated in Potomac, Bethesda and Chevy Chase. Potomac in particular has a retirement bubble occurring meaning each year high income residents move into retirement but don't necessarily move reducing taxable income from that area. The other areas are all getting poorer. This means less revenue from income taxes.

Housing costs in MoCo are less expensive than VA and DC and property values have just barely made it back to 2005 levels where as DC and VA have soared above those levels. This means people have less equity. The property tax assessments in many areas are artificially high. As people retire and sell for actual market rates rather than the tax assessment, new owners are challenging the inflated assessments. This means all means less revenue from property tax. Rental household have been steadily increasing which devalues the property values further.

There is low scale panic about MCPS redrawing boundaries to move neighborhoods with higher performing whites and asians into lower performing schools for diversity. This will move to high scale panic in the next few years as it plays out. Some people will lose a lot in equity but it will overall destabilize and depress the market throughout the county. The changes don't even have to be extreme to freak out future buyers.

The schools generate a lot of negative publicity. The sex offender scandals, MCPS' policy on not removing violent kids from the schools creates incidents that make the press, the whole curriculum fiasco, and other problems drive some residents out to Howard. Frederick or VA depending on where they work.

There are just a whole host of problems. Its still a nice place to live but you need to be careful because its not a wise investment.

I agree with the PP.

MCPS has serious issues. There are some fantastic teachers, but MCPS leadership does their best to discourage them and lower morale. Plus, the sexual abuse scandals, and the inane PBIS, useless Code of Conduct leads to behavioral issues galore in most schools.

If you have other options, it's worth considering them if the school system is important to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP - I'd suggest Falls Church. Prices are rising but there are still some smaller houses in Falls Church in your price range. You can take the blue/orange line into DC and if you ever change jobs to VA you are already there.

We're considering this move now from Montgomery County and have co-workers out there who really like it. We came here from DC for the schools too but have been disappointed. I like the AAP model in VA and we're starting to think about college so in state tuition options are better in VA too.


Posted from VA

Nope. I've watched several friends and neighbors leave MoCo for Arlington, McLean and others areas in VA. They are super happy and even happier because they have a ton of equity now. We are kicking ourselves for not leaving sooner. I would never recommend MoCo to anyone.

Can we introduce some actual facts into this? MoCo real estate is not the dumpster fire you're making it out to be. MCPS is not the dumpster fire you're making it out to be. The difference between MoCo and NoVA on these metrics are much smaller than you're implying.

MoCo real estate trends:
avg home price is $419K, up 1.6% since last year, 1.2% under list on avg

FFX real estate trends:
avg home price is $525K, up 8.2% since last year, 0.1% under list on avg

Arlington real estate trends:
avg home price is $578K, up 2.5% since last year, 0.4% under list on avg

MCPS: 585/10,758 school districts in the US
FFX: 286
Arlington: 86
Alexandria City: 1,034
Falls Church: 228

[Anonymous]

what do people think about renting (or buying) in Carderock Springs--where perhaps an unrenovated mid-century house could work for OP?

[Anonymous]

what do people think about renting (or buying) in Carderock Springs--where perhaps an unrenovated mid-century house could work for OP?

This is a good area but even if prices drop 20% over time, there won't be houses in the 500K-600K range in Carderock unless the DCC gets to ship all its poor kids over to Churchill or send Churchill kids into the DC.

If the boundary changes don't destroy Churchill then the OP could still find something in Churchill in that range by waiting and watching over time -especially over near Beverly Farms or Cold Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

what do people think about renting (or buying) in Carderock Springs--where perhaps an unrenovated mid-century house could work for OP?

This is a good area but even if prices drop 20% over time, there won't be houses in the 500K-600K range in Carderock unless the DCC gets to ship all its poor kids over to Churchill or send Churchill kids into the DC.

If the boundary changes don't destroy Churchill then the OP could still find something in Churchill in that range by waiting and watching over time -especially over near Beverly Farms or Cold Spring.

destroy Churchill? really?

you people are like the kkk. you get one whiff that your kid might have to go to school with a few more black and hispanic kids and you prattle about how the schools are going to be destroyed.

sickening.

[Anonymous]

Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP - I'd suggest Falls Church. Prices are rising but there are still some smaller houses in Falls Church in your price range. You can take the blue/orange line into DC and if you ever change jobs to VA you are already there.

We're considering this move now from Montgomery County and have co-workers out there who really like it. We came here from DC for the schools too but have been disappointed. I like the AAP model in VA and we're starting to think about college so in state tuition options are better in VA too.


Posted from VA

Nope. I've watched several friends and neighbors leave MoCo for Arlington, McLean and others areas in VA. They are super happy and even happier because they have a ton of equity now. We are kicking ourselves for not leaving sooner. I would never recommend MoCo to anyone.

Can we introduce some actual facts into this? MoCo real estate is not the dumpster fire you're making it out to be. MCPS is not the dumpster fire you're making it out to be. The difference between MoCo and NoVA on these metrics are much smaller than you're implying.

MoCo real estate trends:
avg home price is $419K, up 1.6% since last year, 1.2% under list on avg

FFX real estate trends:
avg home price is $525K, up 8.2% since last year, 0.1% under list on avg

Arlington real estate trends:
avg home price is $578K, up 2.5% since last year, 0.4% under list on avg

MCPS: 585/10,758 school districts in the US
FFX: 286
Arlington: 86
Alexandria City: 1,034
Falls Church: 228

Perhaps, but my house is still worth close to 10% less than what I paid for it in 2005. I bought it for 770K in 2005; it would need to be worth 1M now if it had simply kept up with inflation. It would probably go for about 710K.

As soon as my kid is out of college I'm getting the heck out of this area. It's definitely heading down hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Interesting data.

We are at a high FARMS elementary and I see the negative effects it has on the school. It is impossible to sustain this model of increasing lower income populations without a negative impact on middle class families. The wealthier will choose private, but the middle class families will look elsewhere for better public school options.

It has nothing to do with race (I’m not White) and everything to do with money. There is not enough money to meet the needs of all the students. And MCPS is so poorly managed that they continue to mismanage the funds they do have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Interesting data.

We are at a high FARMS elementary and I see the negative effects it has on the school. It is impossible to sustain this model of increasing lower income populations without a negative impact on middle class families. The wealthier will choose private, but the middle class families will look elsewhere for better public school options.

It has nothing to do with race (I’m not White) and everything to do with money. There is not enough money to meet the needs of all the students. And MCPS is so poorly managed that they continue to mismanage the funds they do have.

Your post makes no sense. If you are at a focus school or title one, they get more funding and teachers. There is money, it just may not be utilized properly. The curriculum is a huge issue as well as teachers who cannot teach and just do small groups/centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stonegate subdivision, 20905.
Olney

20905 is Silver Spring, NOT Olney.

usual feeder pattern in Stonegate is to Blake HS, with some kids going to Farquhar MS

OP -

Olney is 20832. Brookeville is 20833. And there's Sandy Spring which is 20861.

$500K is cutting it close, but you may find a fixer upper in Olney Mill. Brinklow - 20862 - is a possibility, but it's a longer drive up NH Ave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Interesting data.

We are at a high FARMS elementary and I see the negative effects it has on the school. It is impossible to sustain this model of increasing lower income populations without a negative impact on middle class families. The wealthier will choose private, but the middle class families will look elsewhere for better public school options.

It has nothing to do with race (I’m not White) and everything to do with money. There is not enough money to meet the needs of all the students. And MCPS is so poorly managed that they continue to mismanage the funds they do have.

There are no better public school options than MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Interesting data.

We are at a high FARMS elementary and I see the negative effects it has on the school. It is impossible to sustain this model of increasing lower income populations without a negative impact on middle class families. The wealthier will choose private, but the middle class families will look elsewhere for better public school options.

It has nothing to do with race (I’m not White) and everything to do with money. There is not enough money to meet the needs of all the students. And MCPS is so poorly managed that they continue to mismanage the funds they do have.

Your post makes no sense. If you are at a focus school or title one, they get more funding and teachers. There is money, it just may not be utilized properly. The curriculum is a huge issue as well as teachers who cannot teach and just do small groups/centers.

More academic funding at a high-needs school goes toward ESOL. Addressing poverty is a different story, as these are kids who receive free/reduced meals, which cost money, and reduced fees for trips, for example. So the county subsidizes quite a bit.

However, there is overlap (more than not) between FARMs and ESOL. So while the elementary school may have smaller class sizes and more nurturing teachers, once the kids hit middle and high school, it's all the same. On level classes at the secondary level are huge. Additional allocations aren't used the same way b/c at the secondary level, it's course-specific. This may mean that struggling kids have a double period of math, which sucks up a period and may remove a teacher from instructing in another course that's just as significant. lots of movement with course periods, course labels (a whole other story), and teaching assignments . . .

It becomes complicated in schools facing obstacles.