Struck Out in DC school lottery....Tell/Sell me in your non-W School Cluster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 5-minute drive to Rockville Town Center? Maybe at 2 am, if you speed.

From Wootton HS? Absolutely. Just take Wootton Pkwy left on Falls into downtown Rockville. Perhaps you don't live nearby?

It's 2.6 miles. It would be 5 minutes if you drove at a constant speed of 30 mph the whole way. But you wouldn't, because when it isn't 2 am, there are traffic signals, other cars on the road, pedestrians, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a townhouse across the street from Wootton HS for $515k.

It doesn't meet your requirement of SFH - but it does back up to Wootons Mill Park which has lots of open space, streams, and playgrounds. It's also walking distance to Fallsmead Lake/pool area, and next to the Millennium Trail (bike path).

It's a very nice area and walking distance to Fallsmead ES, Frost MS, and Wootton HS (ie not likely to get rezoned anywhere else)

Close to exit 5 off 270

PP here - forgot to post the link!

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Rockville/950-Paulsboro-Dr-20850/home/10518845

It's an attached house, as you say. With a tiny lot, for over $500,000, not in walking distance of shops or restaurants, with transit consisting of a RideOn route with mostly 30-minute frequencies. But other than that, just what the OP is looking for!

It's a 5 minute drive to countless restaurants and grocery stores including Trader Joe's, Harris teeter, Safeway, Dawson's Market, and giant. Close to Fallsgrove restaurants, Park Potomac, and all of Rockville Town Square. OP said bus line, not walking to train (which you COULD walk to Rockville station from there, but the bus in front of Wootton HS is closer. And the house literally backs up to a 107 acre park. There's lots of open space lol

+1. It is a very short drive to a lot of things. Lots of people end up a 5-10 drive to things rather than a 5-20 minute walk because it expands options considerably and generally will be less expensive. People at all budgets make this trade off, but particularly at OP's budget it makes a lot of sense to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are your non-W schools with lower than 30% Farms. There are others that are not far over 30%, but, FARMS have steadily risen since the early 2000s, they are not getting lower!

I included Wootton because maybe you'll find a unicorn. I think your budget is tough period. You'll have to compromise.

Clarksburg (26%)
Damascus (14%)
Richard Montgomery (19%)
Northwest HS (22%)
Poolesville (6%)
Quince Orchard (21.3%)
Sherwood (15%)
Wootton (less than 5%)

Out of curiosity, I looked at FARMS rates back in 2002. Wheaton was the only highschool with over 30% FARMS at 38.4%. 18 out of 26 (69%) of our highschools are over 30% Farms with some being more than 50%. The school system is done. Buyer beware.

Here is the dashboard with data.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Which goes to show, yet again, that the definition of "good schools" is "schools with not a lot of poor kids." Not that buildings, not the teachers, not the curriculum, not the administration, not anything the school actually does - just the students who go to the school.

The irony is people who think like that aren't especially birght and even worse oppose any constructive changes that might improve things so we're actually better off when they leave.

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you sure you want to give up on DC? What are your kids' schools?

If you want a big house AND want your kids surrounded only by other high-SES kids, seems the prospects aren't great in MD at your budget, unless you move almost out to WV. Not sure it would be worth it, vs. just buying a condo in DC or close-in Silver Spring.

DH and I are definitely sure we want to leave DC. We may expand our search to Howard County. We want continuity for our children and the lottery is stressful despite the hard face people put on in DC. We have figured out that we’d rather not gamble with our children’s futures. We are also tired of the cramped space in the city.

There are a lot of good reasons to consider this. Howard county schools give you so much more bang for your buck. You get good schools and you can have the SFH with 4 bedrooms that is under $500K ina lot of good pyramids.

Here are the top things we are looking for:

-Tight knit school community
-Single Family Home with spacious backyard
- Socioeconomic diversity but nothing above 30% FARMS/ESOL population
- Teachers who aren’t relatively young
- Strong PTA
- Relatively strong MATH/ELA test scores
- Near Metro Bus lines/ doesn’t have to Train accessible though
- Close to shops (grocery stores, good restaurants, etc)

From your original list, you can get a tight knit school community, SFH with spacious back yard, SE diversity with moderate-to-low FARMS/ESOL, strong PTA, strong MATH/ELA test scores and close to shops. The traffic in Columbia and N Laurel is significantly better than in almost all of MoCo. I leave out Ellicott City. Although some of the best pyramids are there, you really won't find what you are looking for there at your price range (Ellicott CIty is much like the W clusters in HCPSS).

There are two MTA commuter buses that run to downtown from the Columbia area, buses 335 and 345 and you can see the schedules/routes here:
https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule?type=commuter-bus

The buses have various stops near WMATA metro stations if you want/need to transfer to Metro as part of your commute.

Personally, I would not really want to live in most of the properties that fit your criteria in MoCo. I'd rather take a longer commute myself, but you are the one that has to decide which elements on your list are the higher priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you sure you want to give up on DC? What are your kids' schools?

If you want a big house AND want your kids surrounded only by other high-SES kids, seems the prospects aren't great in MD at your budget, unless you move almost out to WV. Not sure it would be worth it, vs. just buying a condo in DC or close-in Silver Spring.

DH and I are definitely sure we want to leave DC. We may expand our search to Howard County. We want continuity for our children and the lottery is stressful despite the hard face people put on in DC. We have figured out that we’d rather not gamble with our children’s futures. We are also tired of the cramped space in the city.

DP. But I would think hard about long commutes and space versus time with family. I also think that your attitude on DC schools is more negative than it need be. Classes in DC are generally smaller than Montgomery County and most middle schools are smaller too. This PP asked where you are IB now - you could consider different options including staying in DC.

OP here, we are on H street NE. Class sizes are 22-24 so generally not as small as people assume. DCPS and some charters only offer and guarantee small pre-k and maybe kinder classes. While DC does offer free pre-k, those slots are limited and not very School has pre-k 3. DD1 and DD2 struck out at good charters and DCPS for pre-k. We were offered a spot but not in a school that DH and I felt comfortable sending DDs. Our eldest DD is in a decent charter school now but it’s not generally challenging enough and I am sick of the lottery business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you sure you want to give up on DC? What are your kids' schools?

If you want a big house AND want your kids surrounded only by other high-SES kids, seems the prospects aren't great in MD at your budget, unless you move almost out to WV. Not sure it would be worth it, vs. just buying a condo in DC or close-in Silver Spring.

DH and I are definitely sure we want to leave DC. We may expand our search to Howard County. We want continuity for our children and the lottery is stressful despite the hard face people put on in DC. We have figured out that we’d rather not gamble with our children’s futures. We are also tired of the cramped space in the city.

DP. But I would think hard about long commutes and space versus time with family. I also think that your attitude on DC schools is more negative than it need be. Classes in DC are generally smaller than Montgomery County and most middle schools are smaller too. This PP asked where you are IB now - you could consider different options including staying in DC.

OP here, we are on H street NE. Class sizes are 22-24 so generally not as small as people assume. DCPS and some charters only offer and guarantee small pre-k and maybe kinder classes. While DC does offer free pre-k, those slots are limited and not very School has pre-k 3. DD1 and DD2 struck out at good charters and DCPS for pre-k. We were offered a spot but not in a school that DH and I felt comfortable sending DDs. Our eldest DD is in a decent charter school now but it’s not generally challenging enough and I am sick of the lottery business.

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse but 22-24 is in upper grades, not ECE (PK3-5), and that is smaller than most Montgomery County ES classes. If your older DD enrolls in your IB (Ludlow-Taylor or JO Wilson?) your younger would be pulled to the top in the IB siblings list. Maybe you are further out but the middle school for both of these ES is Stuart-Hobson that has honors, is small and has a museum magnet component. I'll leave you alone now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 5-minute drive to Rockville Town Center? Maybe at 2 am, if you speed.

From Wootton HS? Absolutely. Just take Wootton Pkwy left on Falls into downtown Rockville. Perhaps you don't live nearby?

It's 2.6 miles. It would be 5 minutes if you drove at a constant speed of 30 mph the whole way. But you wouldn't, because when it isn't 2 am, there are traffic signals, other cars on the road, pedestrians, etc.

DP
You obviously do not live in the area. 30 mph? Child please! No one drives less than 40mph in that area. People only slow down for the speed cameras in front of Wootton HS and Maryland ave. This is MD you are talking about, not VA not DC.
You obviously live in VA or DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you sure you want to give up on DC? What are your kids' schools?

If you want a big house AND want your kids surrounded only by other high-SES kids, seems the prospects aren't great in MD at your budget, unless you move almost out to WV. Not sure it would be worth it, vs. just buying a condo in DC or close-in Silver Spring.

DH and I are definitely sure we want to leave DC. We may expand our search to Howard County. We want continuity for our children and the lottery is stressful despite the hard face people put on in DC. We have figured out that we’d rather not gamble with our children’s futures. We are also tired of the cramped space in the city.

DP. But I would think hard about long commutes and space versus time with family. I also think that your attitude on DC schools is more negative than it need be. Classes in DC are generally smaller than Montgomery County and most middle schools are smaller too. This PP asked where you are IB now - you could consider different options including staying in DC.

OP here, we are on H street NE. Class sizes are 22-24 so generally not as small as people assume. DCPS and some charters only offer and guarantee small pre-k and maybe kinder classes. While DC does offer free pre-k, those slots are limited and not very School has pre-k 3. DD1 and DD2 struck out at good charters and DCPS for pre-k. We were offered a spot but not in a school that DH and I felt comfortable sending DDs. Our eldest DD is in a decent charter school now but it’s not generally challenging enough and I am sick of the lottery business.

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse but 22-24 is in upper grades, not ECE (PK3-5), and that is smaller than most Montgomery County ES classes. If your older DD enrolls in your IB (Ludlow-Taylor or JO Wilson?) your younger would be pulled to the top in the IB siblings list. Maybe you are further out but the middle school for both of these ES is Stuart-Hobson that has honors, is small and has a museum magnet component. I'll leave you alone now.

I hate to burst your bubble but ECE is early childhood education, which generally means Pk-kindergarten. Also, OP only needs to read the DC threads about the over crowding happening at West of the Park schools with class sizes of 22, 24 and 26. If it’s happenjng at those schools then surely logic can infer its happening all over DC. If the OP is not happy in DC why try to force someone make it work? Some people enjoy their time in the city and have fond memories but want to move on. OP is ready to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+1. It is a very short drive to a lot of things. Lots of people end up a 5-10 drive to things rather than a 5-20 minute walk because it expands options considerably and generally will be less expensive. People at all budgets make this trade off, but particularly at OP's budget it makes a lot of sense to do so.

That trade-off really gets you once the kids are middle-school and especially high-school age, though. Old enough to get themselves places, if they CAN get themselves places - which they can't, if the only good way to get themselves there is by car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 5-minute drive to Rockville Town Center? Maybe at 2 am, if you speed.

From Wootton HS? Absolutely. Just take Wootton Pkwy left on Falls into downtown Rockville. Perhaps you don't live nearby?

It's 2.6 miles. It would be 5 minutes if you drove at a constant speed of 30 mph the whole way. But you wouldn't, because when it isn't 2 am, there are traffic signals, other cars on the road, pedestrians, etc.

DP
You obviously do not live in the area. 30 mph? Child please! No one drives less than 40mph in that area. People only slow down for the speed cameras in front of Wootton HS and Maryland ave. This is MD you are talking about, not VA not DC.
You obviously live in VA or DC

Sure. They drive at 40 mph from one stop light to the next stop light. Same amount of time, but more gas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you sure you want to give up on DC? What are your kids' schools?

If you want a big house AND want your kids surrounded only by other high-SES kids, seems the prospects aren't great in MD at your budget, unless you move almost out to WV. Not sure it would be worth it, vs. just buying a condo in DC or close-in Silver Spring.

DH and I are definitely sure we want to leave DC. We may expand our search to Howard County. We want continuity for our children and the lottery is stressful despite the hard face people put on in DC. We have figured out that we’d rather not gamble with our children’s futures. We are also tired of the cramped space in the city.

DP. But I would think hard about long commutes and space versus time with family. I also think that your attitude on DC schools is more negative than it need be. Classes in DC are generally smaller than Montgomery County and most middle schools are smaller too. This PP asked where you are IB now - you could consider different options including staying in DC.

OP here, we are on H street NE. Class sizes are 22-24 so generally not as small as people assume. DCPS and some charters only offer and guarantee small pre-k and maybe kinder classes. While DC does offer free pre-k, those slots are limited and not very School has pre-k 3. DD1 and DD2 struck out at good charters and DCPS for pre-k. We were offered a spot but not in a school that DH and I felt comfortable sending DDs. Our eldest DD is in a decent charter school now but it’s not generally challenging enough and I am sick of the lottery business.

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse but 22-24 is in upper grades, not ECE (PK3-5), and that is smaller than most Montgomery County ES classes. If your older DD enrolls in your IB (Ludlow-Taylor or JO Wilson?) your younger would be pulled to the top in the IB siblings list. Maybe you are further out but the middle school for both of these ES is Stuart-Hobson that has honors, is small and has a museum magnet component. I'll leave you alone now.

I hate to burst your bubble but ECE is early childhood education, which generally means Pk-kindergarten. Also, OP only needs to read the DC threads about the over crowding happening at West of the Park schools with class sizes of 22, 24 and 26. If it’s happenjng at those schools then surely logic can infer its happening all over DC. If the OP is not happy in DC why try to force someone make it work? Some people enjoy their time in the city and have fond memories but want to move on. OP is ready to move on.

DP, but the grass may not be greener at her price range. There is no guarantee that the new school will be challenging enough, and though OP hasn't indicated where the commutes are, they may likely also have to contend with long commutes that are only getting longer every year, given increasing development.

If I were in her shoes, I'd focus on adjusting my expectations for a large SFH and low-FARMs schools, and look closer in. Personally, if I had her budget, I'd look in the Forest Glen area, based on what I've heard from parents who have kids at Oakland Terrace/Flora Singer. She could also consult the DC public schools board for lottery strategies--no guarantee, but there is often a lot of helpful advice about what type of lottery list to put together to increase the chance of lotterying into a decent school. For example, OP may have listed only schools that are hard to lottery into, or missed some that are up and coming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1. It is a very short drive to a lot of things. Lots of people end up a 5-10 drive to things rather than a 5-20 minute walk because it expands options considerably and generally will be less expensive. People at all budgets make this trade off, but particularly at OP's budget it makes a lot of sense to do so.

That trade-off really gets you once the kids are middle-school and especially high-school age, though. Old enough to get themselves places, if they CAN get themselves places - which they can't, if the only good way to get themselves there is by car.

PP - do you live in this neighborhood? Kids and adults can and do get many places nearby and OP didn't even mention this as a concern. One additional is the kids being able to walk to middle and high school instead of needing to take a bus or drive carpool every day. The elementary school does provide bus service from the neighborhood, but it is arguably walking distance to Fallsmead, too. There are not many developments where walking to school for the entire school career is possible. And this area of Rockville is certainly closer in than any locations in HoCo that the OP may be looking at.

If the OP doesn't have a car, this location might be a little challenging, but with a car, the house is literally minutes from a multitude of restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters, and other central areas as well as being in one of the top school clusters in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry to beat a dead horse but 22-24 is in upper grades, not ECE (PK3-5), and that is smaller than most Montgomery County ES classes. If your older DD enrolls in your IB (Ludlow-Taylor or JO Wilson?) your younger would be pulled to the top in the IB siblings list. Maybe you are further out but the middle school for both of these ES is Stuart-Hobson that has honors, is small and has a museum magnet component. I'll leave you alone now.

I hate to burst your bubble but ECE is early childhood education, which generally means Pk-kindergarten. Also, OP only needs to read the DC threads about the over crowding happening at West of the Park schools with class sizes of 22, 24 and 26. If it’s happenjng at those schools then surely logic can infer its happening all over DC. If the OP is not happy in DC why try to force someone make it work? Some people enjoy their time in the city and have fond memories but want to move on. OP is ready to move on.

Sorry, slip of the tongue/keyboard. I meant PK3-K, which have class limits in DCPS of 16-20. So 22-24 is for 1-5 in the schools near OP. All I am saying is that the trade offs should be evaluated in full.

[Anonymous]

I understand what the OP is saying. We love DC but need better middle and high school options and have the same perspective.

If we can't find good schools and a nice house close in then we would move much farther out. We're waiting until we're at the point where we really both are comfortable going in an off schedule and one of us teleworking- which seems silly being in DC but for Howard County this could make it very doable. We have co workers who do this and it works for them.

The problem with choosing a bad school cluster and a larger house that still has a commute just not as long is that you end up feeling like everything sucks. Your commute is still going to be 35-45 minutes. All these posters saying its only 20 minutes from the burbs never factor in actual door to door time, waiting on metro, walking to metro, getting stuck in traffic etc etc. Moving much farther out adds time but the time/miles starts diminishing once you get further out.

[Anonymous]

Check out 20853 zoned for Flower Valley or Barnsley - may not check every box but it's an option not yet mentioned here:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Rockville-MD-20853/37204082_zpid/66667_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.105704,-77.082954,39.084121,-77.124367_rect/14_zm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Rockville-MD-20853/37320188_zpid/66667_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.105704,-77.082954,39.084121,-77.124367_rect/14_zm/