Noob Question about State Cups

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Villarreal....get a life. ok team from a dumpy part of town.

Lovely. So when do you expect to buy your child’s admission to USC? Probably doesn’t attend the best high school in the country, which happens to be in the dumpy part of town to which you refer and which draws a number of locals. But hey, it’s dumpy. #yourkidbetterhopegritisntgenetic

Smh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYSA is more established, has a broader set of participants, and hooks into the USYS Regional and National competitions which are also more established. Often teams from EDP, CCL, and NCSL will compete. Even some ECNL teams on occasion and definitely at the pre-ECNL and pre-DA ages the larger clubs that have these programs will compete, unless they have some tie into VPL/NPL then they usually pick the VPL state cup out of a sense of loyalty to that league.

VYSA is a better competition than the NPL (VPL) state cup. The VPL state cup is free for teams already in the VPL league, but there is a fee for non-VPL teams. It is not as strong a competition, but that does not mean that it is not fun and worth the $275 team fee to register - which is pretty cheap (less than $30 or even $20 a player depending on team size / age).

Hope this helps you decide which one to play in … and hopefully this thread does not turn into a Villareal, SYC, LMVSC, FCV, Loudoun, BRYC, VDA, McLean, Wash Spirit thread …

OP, so it's not my decision but I was just wondering how one could crown someone state champions with having a singular path to achieve that status. I'll have to admit since this thread has gone sideways, we do very well in VPL league play but get our butts kicked in virtually all tournaments. Our coach even tries to move us down in brackets, but results are the same.

Agreed. To your point, there is no more "true" state championship (or regional or national) any longer. Once ECNL, DA, US Club and USYS all broke apart into separate competitions sub-leagues etc. that all went away. So lots of crowns, but no true king/queen. Clubs like it though so that they can market their teams' successes. Similar to playing in a lower tournament flight and winning it. Looks good on the Facebook page and in the GotSoccer rankings, but may not really indicate the quality of the team. However, players also enjoy winning and getting the medal, so there is some merit to the approach.

On the other observation, yes VPL (i.e. NPL) is weak, at least in the girls divisions (I have no real first hand knowledge of the boy's). NCSL 1st division is arguably better. CCL is better at younger ages, but also tends to drop off once the ECNL and DA and EDP teams raid all the better players starting at U13. I am actually surprised EDP hasn't tried to make more of an inroads into Northern VA and get the more successful clubs to drop VPL and CCL and NCSL for their top teams and adopt EDP instead. Just a much better platform and competition level. This would only be for the top teams in a club however as there is more travel involved (lots of MD teams and some NJ and PA) … but if there were more VA teams, perhaps the travel would be lessened thru a metro-area approach. Anyhow, enough rambling by me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYSA is more established, has a broader set of participants, and hooks into the USYS Regional and National competitions which are also more established. Often teams from EDP, CCL, and NCSL will compete. Even some ECNL teams on occasion and definitely at the pre-ECNL and pre-DA ages the larger clubs that have these programs will compete, unless they have some tie into VPL/NPL then they usually pick the VPL state cup out of a sense of loyalty to that league.

VYSA is a better competition than the NPL (VPL) state cup. The VPL state cup is free for teams already in the VPL league, but there is a fee for non-VPL teams. It is not as strong a competition, but that does not mean that it is not fun and worth the $275 team fee to register - which is pretty cheap (less than $30 or even $20 a player depending on team size / age).

Hope this helps you decide which one to play in … and hopefully this thread does not turn into a Villareal, SYC, LMVSC, FCV, Loudoun, BRYC, VDA, McLean, Wash Spirit thread …

OP, so it's not my decision but I was just wondering how one could crown someone state champions with having a singular path to achieve that status. I'll have to admit since this thread has gone sideways, we do very well in VPL league play but get our butts kicked in virtually all tournaments. Our coach even tries to move us down in brackets, but results are the same.

Agreed. To your point, there is no more "true" state championship (or regional or national) any longer. Once ECNL, DA, US Club and USYS all broke apart into separate competitions sub-leagues etc. that all went away. So lots of crowns, but no true king/queen. Clubs like it though so that they can market their teams' successes. Similar to playing in a lower tournament flight and winning it. Looks good on the Facebook page and in the GotSoccer rankings, but may not really indicate the quality of the team. However, players also enjoy winning and getting the medal, so there is some merit to the approach.

On the other observation, yes VPL (i.e. NPL) is weak, at least in the girls divisions (I have no real first hand knowledge of the boy's). NCSL 1st division is arguably better. CCL is better at younger ages, but also tends to drop off once the ECNL and DA and EDP teams raid all the better players starting at U13. I am actually surprised EDP hasn't tried to make more of an inroads into Northern VA and get the more successful clubs to drop VPL and CCL and NCSL for their top teams and adopt EDP instead. Just a much better platform and competition level. This would only be for the top teams in a club however as there is more travel involved (lots of MD teams and some NJ and PA) … but if there were more VA teams, perhaps the travel would be lessened thru a metro-area approach. Anyhow, enough rambling by me.

State Cup still have pretty decent competition in the older age groups. U19 boys' champion, McLean Green is ranked No. 10 in the country, runner up Arlington is ranked 36 in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VYSA is more established, has a broader set of participants, and hooks into the USYS Regional and National competitions which are also more established. Often teams from EDP, CCL, and NCSL will compete. Even some ECNL teams on occasion and definitely at the pre-ECNL and pre-DA ages the larger clubs that have these programs will compete, unless they have some tie into VPL/NPL then they usually pick the VPL state cup out of a sense of loyalty to that league.

VYSA is a better competition than the NPL (VPL) state cup. The VPL state cup is free for teams already in the VPL league, but there is a fee for non-VPL teams. It is not as strong a competition, but that does not mean that it is not fun and worth the $275 team fee to register - which is pretty cheap (less than $30 or even $20 a player depending on team size / age).

Hope this helps you decide which one to play in … and hopefully this thread does not turn into a Villareal, SYC, LMVSC, FCV, Loudoun, BRYC, VDA, McLean, Wash Spirit thread …

OP, so it's not my decision but I was just wondering how one could crown someone state champions with having a singular path to achieve that status. I'll have to admit since this thread has gone sideways, we do very well in VPL league play but get our butts kicked in virtually all tournaments. Our coach even tries to move us down in brackets, but results are the same.

Agreed. To your point, there is no more "true" state championship (or regional or national) any longer. Once ECNL, DA, US Club and USYS all broke apart into separate competitions sub-leagues etc. that all went away. So lots of crowns, but no true king/queen. Clubs like it though so that they can market their teams' successes. Similar to playing in a lower tournament flight and winning it. Looks good on the Facebook page and in the GotSoccer rankings, but may not really indicate the quality of the team. However, players also enjoy winning and getting the medal, so there is some merit to the approach.

On the other observation, yes VPL (i.e. NPL) is weak, at least in the girls divisions (I have no real first hand knowledge of the boy's). NCSL 1st division is arguably better. CCL is better at younger ages, but also tends to drop off once the ECNL and DA and EDP teams raid all the better players starting at U13. I am actually surprised EDP hasn't tried to make more of an inroads into Northern VA and get the more successful clubs to drop VPL and CCL and NCSL for their top teams and adopt EDP instead. Just a much better platform and competition level. This would only be for the top teams in a club however as there is more travel involved (lots of MD teams and some NJ and PA) … but if there were more VA teams, perhaps the travel would be lessened thru a metro-area approach. Anyhow, enough rambling by me.

State Cup still have pretty decent competition in the older age groups. U19 boys' champion, McLean Green is ranked No. 10 in the country, runner up Arlington is ranked 36 in the country.

SOCA is top 40 nationally as well.

[Anonymous]

Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

Nothing for the team, at the older ages they can move onto regionals/nationals. There is merit to this competition:

- It's fun for the kids, pressures of 1 and done, mimics their heros playing in the Champion's cup
- Large top level clubs do participate and to those that claim that all talent is lost with DA and ECNL are absolutely incorrect. We are part of a DA club and in our first team non-da, we have 5 players that previously played in DA, but because of personal reasons opted to play at the non-da league.
- Wow doesn't want to be crowned State champs, look at the VYSA site, all the big clubs are represented
- Travel is pretty much equal for all
- Cheap tournament, low risk, high impact (back to the fun factor)
- Breaking the monotony of playing the same teams in league

Let's be honest, we have NFL World champs (but only teams in US play), we have NBA (world champs) but it only has N. American teams with some representation of international players, list goes on and on. Bottomline, you play and want to beat who is put in front of you, that is part of the fun. We all know if the coaches could pick, many teams would be a shoe into the finals. I won a state championship in high school and we did beat the teams within our division so you ended up with multiple state champs from the different divisions. That's ok, because we took care of business with what was put in front of us. Are we really naive to say we can crown a true "State" champ unless they literally play every other team in the commonwealth. Focus on the first point, the kids have fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

I was just talking to a friend whose daughters 2003 Vienna team won their state cup which qualified them for nationals. Now I know there are probably more than one "nationals" but that does seem like it would be a big deal - no? These girls are high school age so will there be college coaches watching them for recruiting purposes? I don't have a kid playing at Vienna but I'm wondering if you stumble upon a great team from a smaller club you might accomplish the same thing as having a kid play for one of the big ones. And you forego all the drama and "dod eat dog" mentality? Anyone out there with girls in the 2003 age group like to weigh in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

I was just talking to a friend whose daughters 2003 Vienna team won their state cup which qualified them for nationals. Now I know there are probably more than one "nationals" but that does seem like it would be a big deal - no? These girls are high school age so will there be college coaches watching them for recruiting purposes? I don't have a kid playing at Vienna but I'm wondering if you stumble upon a great team from a smaller club you might accomplish the same thing as having a kid play for one of the big ones. And you forego all the drama and "dod eat dog" mentality? Anyone out there with girls in the 2003 age group like to weigh in?

Once in a blue moon that does happen when you have a talented team that actually loves soccer and each other. The idea of "team" unity gets broken apart by the parents chasing the next big thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

I was just talking to a friend whose daughters 2003 Vienna team won their state cup which qualified them for nationals. Now I know there are probably more than one "nationals" but that does seem like it would be a big deal - no? These girls are high school age so will there be college coaches watching them for recruiting purposes? I don't have a kid playing at Vienna but I'm wondering if you stumble upon a great team from a smaller club you might accomplish the same thing as having a kid play for one of the big ones. And you forego all the drama and "dod eat dog" mentality? Anyone out there with girls in the 2003 age group like to weigh in?

Vienna 2003 girls did not win the State Cup, they won their league cup, which their league calls "state" cup. SOCA 2003 girls won the State Cup defeating Arlington in the final. Regardless of the tournament status, if they are going to the nationals is a good thing in terms of college coaches exposure, at least in theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another NOOB here.... What does winning the state cup get a team? Just a picture with a banner? Or does it qualify for the team to continue to a more fancy tourney?

I was just talking to a friend whose daughters 2003 Vienna team won their state cup which qualified them for nationals. Now I know there are probably more than one "nationals" but that does seem like it would be a big deal - no? These girls are high school age so will there be college coaches watching them for recruiting purposes? I don't have a kid playing at Vienna but I'm wondering if you stumble upon a great team from a smaller club you might accomplish the same thing as having a kid play for one of the big ones. And you forego all the drama and "dod eat dog" mentality? Anyone out there with girls in the 2003 age group like to weigh in?

Vienna 2003 girls did not win the State Cup, they won their league cup, which their league calls "state" cup. SOCA 2003 girls won the State Cup defeating Arlington in the final. Regardless of the tournament status, if they are going to the nationals is a good thing in terms of college coaches exposure, at least in theory.

I don't get the VPL state cup, a vegas bet would lead you to believe that the top teams in your age bracket during VPL league play would win a VPL state cup. Seems rhetorical, what I like about VYSA's approach is that it's open to all teams so you do get a chance to compete against teams outside your league/bracket.

[Anonymous]

So does VPL get to go to the same “Nationals” or do they have a different one? Will Vienna and SOCA be the same place?

[Anonymous]

Arlington was at State Cup? Are DA teams allowed to do State Cup too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington was at State Cup? Are DA teams allowed to do State Cup too?

SMH, arlington has multiple teams. After DA, there is Red which usually participates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So does VPL get to go to the same “Nationals” or do they have a different one? Will Vienna and SOCA be the same place?

VYSA runs their State Cup and Nationals through their parent organization US Youth Soccer.

NPL runs their own State Cup and has Nationals through their parent organization US Club Soccer.

Both State level organizations allow any club/team to register for their State Cup but the NPL State Cup is pretty much a fail outside of their own league clubs/teams participating.

VYSA has teams registered from CCL, NCSL and EDP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington was at State Cup? Are DA teams allowed to do State Cup too?

It was Arlington Red. https://www.vysa.com/Default.aspx?tabid=2519875

DA does not normally enter their teams in the state cups. There is really little to no upside for them. If they lose, people would question whether DA is superior. If they win, there's little glory in beating non-DA clubs, since DA is expected/marketed to be stronger.