As educators, what do you really think of...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach 8th grade at a low income school. I have lots of students who fit the description.

Staff across the board goes out of their way to try to even the playing field for these kids. We all stay after multiple days a week for free tutoring, bring them food and send passes to remind them, etc. More than anything though, we try to teach them skills to overcome the deficits they have at home. I've purchased an alarm clock for a kid who had no way of waking up on time for the bus. I've helped them apply for high school scholarships when they didn't have a present parent to navigate the forms for them.

We love these kids and while there is definitely pity and sadness for the cards they were dealt, the fact of the matter is that in a few short years no one is going to care that they have it rough, so we have to help them become self sufficient and independent in the mean time.

You are awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

So the child should just be able to disrupt class, disrespect fellow students and teachers. All the while the parents, similar to you, take no responsibility and instead blame the teacher. Nevermind the parents fail to acknowledge the reality of their child or actually help them. Easier to blame everyone else.

This is an anonymous forum. Why do you so confidently assume what side I am on? The fact of the matter is, in answer to pps question, ieps sometimes do more to help the teacher and other students rather than the misbehaving child. That is why a child who already receives all the informal accomodations he would need might still be referred for an iep. There's nothing more the iep would really do for the student. The iep in that case is for everyone else. Just needs to be said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

So the child should just be able to disrupt class, disrespect fellow students and teachers. All the while the parents, similar to you, take no responsibility and instead blame the teacher. Nevermind the parents fail to acknowledge the reality of their child or actually help them. Easier to blame everyone else.

This is an anonymous forum. Why do you so confidently assume what side I am on? The fact of the matter is, in answer to pps question, ieps sometimes do more to help the teacher and other students rather than the misbehaving child. That is why a child who already receives all the informal accomodations he would need might still be referred for an iep. There's nothing more the iep would really do for the student. The iep in that case is for everyone else. Just needs to be said.

Well I can read and it’s very clear what “side” you are on. You are fooling no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

It's very difficult to get an IEP without parental consent. If those stories are true the district went through a lot of hoops to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

It's very difficult to get an IEP without parental consent. If those stories are true the district went through a lot of hoops to make it happen.

In both cases the parents consented to the IEP under pressure from the schools, and then the schools used the diagnosis/IEP as a rationale for increasing constraints on the children, including pressing to move them out of the regular classroom. It was at that point that the parents found themselves at odds with the school administration. In the first case I know the parents regretted allowing the school to have their child evaluated in the first place. Neither of these instances were in DC, and I’m sure they were extreme cases. Both were friends of friends, and I remember looking up parental legal rights and finding that most of the information available was for parents who wanted more accommodations, not least-restrictive environments. I’m just curious if anyone here knows of similar instances, and what parents can do if this does happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

It's very difficult to get an IEP without parental consent. If those stories are true the district went through a lot of hoops to make it happen.

In both cases the parents consented to the IEP under pressure from the schools, and then the schools used the diagnosis/IEP as a rationale for increasing constraints on the children, including pressing to move them out of the regular classroom. It was at that point that the parents found themselves at odds with the school administration. In the first case I know the parents regretted allowing the school to have their child evaluated in the first place. Neither of these instances were in DC, and I’m sure they were extreme cases. Both were friends of friends, and I remember looking up parental legal rights and finding that most of the information available was for parents who wanted more accommodations, not least-restrictive environments. I’m just curious if anyone here knows of similar instances, and what parents can do if this does happen.

They can revoke consent for the iep. Parents can always revoke consent at any time. Years ago, you needed both parents and the school to agree to drop the iep, but not anymore.

https://www.mccarthylebit.com/2015/07/01/iep-plan-b-revoking-consent-of-your-childs-special-education-services/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one thing that teachers could do and don't, and that I blame them for, is to not use parent volunteers. How many kids who are in 3rd grade, but reading at a K level, could be helped by one-on-one attention from volunteers (and could have benefitted along the way)? We expect one person to manage a huge classroom with multiple learning levels and many types of disabilities and it isn't humanly possible. So admit that and use parents and other volunteers whenever possible to fill in the gaps. But most won't. At all.

Where do you live? It cannot be MoCo bc if you were then you wouldn’t write something so ignorant. Parent volunteers cannot provide anything you mention.

NP. I have helped out with reading and writing in first and second grade classrooms in MCPS as a parent volunteer. I do not have a background in education. Teachers used me as needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

Our experience is the schools can do what they want. They kept suggesting diagnosis for our child that didn't fit and we had multiple different private evaluations done over the years and it made no sense. They kept pushing for them to test and they wanted to prove their diagnosis. Turned out they needed the diagnosis as if they didn't have enough kids with specific diagnosis/needs they'd lose staffing. We refused as its as being misused.

[Anonymous]

If that’s true it’s outrageous. But I feel compelled to weigh in as a counselor in MCPS. I’ve fought tooth and nail for kids’ right to interventions and have failed to secure services for kids whose parents didn’t show up or understand the processes; whose minority status disqualified them (illegally) because the school felt pressure not to code black kids, and meanwhile, plenty of white wealthy families buy a diagnosis and get a 504 plan if not an IEP. Parents in the know want a plan because their kid gets extended time etc. I’ve never heard of a teacher wanting an IEP so they wouldn’t get blamed for low scores or so they could boot the kid out and into a self-contained classroom. Counselors are usually the ones driving the train, and they don’t have a dog in the fight other than helping the child. Other parents in the class don’t have a right to any of this confidential information, and they definitely can’t dictate what the school does to accommodate another child’s special needs. If anything, plans create more work for teachers, but they like them because at least there’s targeted instruction and it’s helpful to know the kid’s area of struggle. Plus, they might get an extra teacher in the classroom if the kid’s plan calls for it. Long way of saying I think kids NOT getting services they need is a much bigger problem than teachers forcibly coding kids to evade responsibility. I have honestly never seen that or suspected that behavior in15 years in the county.

[Anonymous]

I volunteered weekly, as a parent, in our MCPS ES school recently. I did copies and classroom help (reviewing math facts with kids, etc.). I was there because it was a large class and I wanted to help free up the teacher to do her best, not to spy or help just my child. My sense from other parent volunteers was that they had a similar desire to be truly helpful. Why are so many people so hostile to those who volunteer? The teachers seemed genuinely grateful to have the help.

I agree with PP that any problems with 504s and IEPs were most likely that they weren’t used enough... there were a couple of children who were clearly struggling and who might have benefited from more one-on-one help or accomodations. While it is shocking to think of them being used to isolate a child, I saw them used to provide support in a curriculum which doesn’t seem to have much built in support for children who are having a hard time mastering the concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one thing that teachers could do and don't, and that I blame them for, is to not use parent volunteers. How many kids who are in 3rd grade, but reading at a K level, could be helped by one-on-one attention from volunteers (and could have benefitted along the way)? We expect one person to manage a huge classroom with multiple learning levels and many types of disabilities and it isn't humanly possible. So admit that and use parents and other volunteers whenever possible to fill in the gaps. But most won't. At all.

We aren't allowed to use parent volunteers in the classroom. They can make copies, cut out laminating, work at a desk outside the classroom but that's it aside from volunteer on field trips. Once we make this clear to parents, most of them don't want to come in to help. I think many of the parent volunteers just wanted to 1) spy on the teacher and/or other students or 2) only work with their child.

Which district are you, and when did this change or is this a building decision? When my oldest child was in MCPS, it was totally at the discretion of the teacher and I was there every week working with kids at the "Reading Center". But look at your attitude and you will see why I blame teachers for not utilizing parents as volunteers. No excuse to not use them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but I’m genuinely curious as to what an IEP does for a teacher. I thought it provided a set of requirements that the teacher needs to follow to give extra help to a student with a diagnosis, in order to ensure the child is not left unsupported. If a teacher is already giving that support, why the desire on the teacher’s part for an IEP? And what can the parents do for the teacher given that they are not the ones in the classroom during school hours?

+1.

It resolved them of some responsibility and accountability. If the child doesnt meet grade level expectations or misbehaves when a visitor or admin is watching, they can blame it on a documented disability rather than their lack of teaching and classroom management skills. Another thing it does is open up the possibility of having the child removed from the classroom for all or part of the day into a self contained classroom so the teacher doesnt have to deal with it. None of this would benefit the misbehaving child much whichbis probably why the parents refused.

PP here, this does worry me. I have heard, anecdotally, of IEPs being severely misused. In one instance on a child with liberal parents in a working-class right-wing stronghold, and in another on a black child in a predominately white school district in which the other parents didn’t want the child in the classroom with theirs. Do parents have any legal rights once a diagnosis is given and an IEP put in place?

It's very difficult to get an IEP without parental consent. If those stories are true the district went through a lot of hoops to make it happen.

In both cases the parents consented to the IEP under pressure from the schools, and then the schools used the diagnosis/IEP as a rationale for increasing constraints on the children, including pressing to move them out of the regular classroom. It was at that point that the parents found themselves at odds with the school administration. In the first case I know the parents regretted allowing the school to have their child evaluated in the first place. Neither of these instances were in DC, and I’m sure they were extreme cases. Both were friends of friends, and I remember looking up parental legal rights and finding that most of the information available was for parents who wanted more accommodations, not least-restrictive environments. I’m just curious if anyone here knows of similar instances, and what parents can do if this does happen.

They can revoke consent for the iep. Parents can always revoke consent at any time. Years ago, you needed both parents and the school to agree to drop the iep, but not anymore.

https://www.mccarthylebit.com/2015/07/01/iep-plan-b-revoking-consent-of-your-childs-special-education-services/

Very helpful, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If that’s true it’s outrageous. But I feel compelled to weigh in as a counselor in MCPS. I’ve fought tooth and nail for kids’ right to interventions and have failed to secure services for kids whose parents didn’t show up or understand the processes; whose minority status disqualified them (illegally) because the school felt pressure not to code black kids, and meanwhile, plenty of white wealthy families buy a diagnosis and get a 504 plan if not an IEP. Parents in the know want a plan because their kid gets extended time etc. I’ve never heard of a teacher wanting an IEP so they wouldn’t get blamed for low scores or so they could boot the kid out and into a self-contained classroom. Counselors are usually the ones driving the train, and they don’t have a dog in the fight other than helping the child. Other parents in the class don’t have a right to any of this confidential information, and they definitely can’t dictate what the school does to accommodate another child’s special needs. If anything, plans create more work for teachers, but they like them because at least there’s targeted instruction and it’s helpful to know the kid’s area of struggle. Plus, they might get an extra teacher in the classroom if the kid’s plan calls for it. Long way of saying I think kids NOT getting services they need is a much bigger problem than teachers forcibly coding kids to evade responsibility. I have honestly never seen that or suspected that behavior in15 years in the county.

It was outrageous, and true, unfortunately. I’m glad to hear it doesn’t happen in this area. In one of the states, I know extra money was allotted to schools for each student with a diagnosed disability, but there was no requirement that the funds were spent on special ed students, so the incentive to increase diagnoses and then use the money wherever was huge. Other parents can’t dictate what happens, but they can put pressure on the school (you can read about parents doing that here, for other reasons, all the time), and if the teachers and administration are in agreement with them, the parents of the child who has been singled out will be fighting a losing battle. Most likely if the school felt pressure not to code black kids it’s because of instances like the one I know about, which results in a hugely disproportionate number of black children being placed in special ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one thing that teachers could do and don't, and that I blame them for, is to not use parent volunteers. How many kids who are in 3rd grade, but reading at a K level, could be helped by one-on-one attention from volunteers (and could have benefitted along the way)? We expect one person to manage a huge classroom with multiple learning levels and many types of disabilities and it isn't humanly possible. So admit that and use parents and other volunteers whenever possible to fill in the gaps. But most won't. At all.

We aren't allowed to use parent volunteers in the classroom. They can make copies, cut out laminating, work at a desk outside the classroom but that's it aside from volunteer on field trips. Once we make this clear to parents, most of them don't want to come in to help. I think many of the parent volunteers just wanted to 1) spy on the teacher and/or other students or 2) only work with their child.

Which district are you, and when did this change or is this a building decision? When my oldest child was in MCPS, it was totally at the discretion of the teacher and I was there every week working with kids at the "Reading Center". But look at your attitude and you will see why I blame teachers for not utilizing parents as volunteers. No excuse to not use them.

This was a school decision because of more than one case of parents sharing confidential info they discovered while volunteering. I know one of them posted info about a student in her child’s class with an IEP. That child had a one on one aide and the parent thought that the child was receiving preferential treatment so she shared that info on FB. That was just one incident. I agreed with the decision not to allow parents inside the classroom since it is an invasive of privacy. It’s sad that some parents can ruin it for all parents but would you want another’s parent blabbing to strangers about your child and his/her disability and the accommodations he/she receives? I don’t think so. There is more than enough to do in a school building for volunteers that doesn’t involve direct classroom contact. One of our parent volunteers changes the bulletin boards around the school (not teacher boards) on a rotating basis. One makes all of the copies for fliers that get sent home. Most make copies so teachers have more time to plan and grade.