Panicked about finances now that I see how expensive eldercare is

[Anonymous]

And get a Palliative care doctor involved. They will help you and your loved one assess the situation, make sure you are getting the care you want (and not the care you don't), and make the end so much better for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of good discussions on bogleheads money and finance forum about retirement savings, the cost of long term care, etc.

I too have made my wishes known. Once my faculties are gone, I would prefer not to keep going.

Making your wishes known does not help. Your family cannot agree to kill you. If your body is still functioning you will sit and wait (and pay) until death.

living will

[Anonymous]

That's what is awful- I don't want to live with Alzheimers or dementia- but the government won't allow assisted suicide for these events (my understanding). I have made absolutely sure that we do not live in a state with a familial responsibility law and will advise my child when he's of age to choose a state without familial responsibility. That is next, folks. When long term care, savings, assets, and medicaid won't pay, they will come after your children for the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who need long-term 24/7 care need it for 2 years or less (because they pass away) so save up enough for that.

That is a ridiculous assumption. It works out for you to believe this, but you have no idea what to expect.

No, PP is correct that the average reliance on long-term care - in-home or nursing home - is 2 years.

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/823957/75-mustknow-statistics-about-longterm-care.html

My relative that bought long term care insurance for her husband said that the cost of the long term care insurance was about break even at two years of care. So you are betting you’ll live longer than two years, and they are betting you won’t.

The more I learn about Medicaid coverage of long term care, the worse it seems. It’s literally not enough to cover the cost of care so nursing homes either won’t accept it or only accept it by gaming the system in other ways.

What are you talking about, yes medicaid LTC covers the full cost.

The nursing homes are losing money on the Medicaid patients. They cannot afford to run decent nursing homes on what Medicaid pays, because it hasn't been properly indexed to inflation. As a result, nursing homes use Medicaid patients to fill some extra beds while they chase the private pay and Medicare post-acute dollars. Or they cheap out with things like manipulating the staffing figures so that they can look like they meet the minimum staffing numbers even if they don't, or find other ways to game the system. Do some research into the economics of the industry and its fairly frightening. It's gotten much worse in the last decade or so (although it does vary by state program).

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking about leaving a big bottle of sleeping pills in my medicine cabinet with a sign that says "These are candy. Eat them with tequila." And I'm only partly kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to worry until I decided to be proactive. I have a "business class to Zurich" fund which is less than the cost of half a year in care. I take the SAGE test from the University of Ohio every 6 months. That way I can ensure I catch the "competent" window of Alzheimer's. At the first signs I will check out gracefully and not burden my family and lose a lifetime of assets. You have a pretty long window but most people do not want to know they have it, they are more concerned about losing their driver's license than losing their minds, so they just sink into oblivion.

I got the idea after reading this woman's blog. It's and account of the wastefulness of Alzheimer's, completely unvarnished. http://www.deadatnoon.com/

I'm with you![/quote


This 100 percent! DH and I have long term care policies and honestly I hope we never have to use them. My own dear 95 year old dad spent the last 15 months of his life under hospice care bedridden in my childhood home dining room. Nearly killed my mom - my worst nightmare. This is such a better plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to worry until I decided to be proactive. I have a "business class to Zurich" fund which is less than the cost of half a year in care. I take the SAGE test from the University of Ohio every 6 months. That way I can ensure I catch the "competent" window of Alzheimer's. At the first signs I will check out gracefully and not burden my family and lose a lifetime of assets. You have a pretty long window but most people do not want to know they have it, they are more concerned about losing their driver's license than losing their minds, so they just sink into oblivion.

I got the idea after reading this woman's blog. It's and account of the wastefulness of Alzheimer's, completely unvarnished. http://www.deadatnoon.com/

I'm with you![/quote


This 100 percent! DH and I have long term care policies and honestly I hope we never have to use them. My own dear 95 year old dad spent the last 15 months of his life under hospice care bedridden in my childhood home dining room. Nearly killed my mom - my worst nightmare. This is such a better plan.

+1 This was my grandmother in her own dining room. Such a pitiful waste.

And, +1 to the medi+eldercare industrial complex being a racket. They are after your money, and will vacuum it all up! I read an article in the Atlantic monthly about refusing antibiotics for elderly and allowing them to succumb to pneumonia. This used to be the natural way for an elderly person to pass, but nursing homes are very quick to deliver a patient to the hospital for a round of IV antibiotics.

[Anonymous]

And, +1 to the medi+eldercare industrial complex being a racket. They are after your money, and will vacuum it all up! I read an article in the Atlantic monthly about refusing antibiotics for elderly and allowing them to succumb to pneumonia. This used to be the natural way for an elderly person to pass, but nursing homes are very quick to deliver a patient to the hospital for a round of IV antibiotics.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to care for an elderly person who can't do the "activities of daily living" (eating, dressing, bathing, going to the bathroom) unassisted? (Let alone the demented elderly who can't be left unsupervised and often harm themselves.) It is very, very difficult and labor-intensive. They are "after your money" because it requires a lot of staff, who all have to be paid (the nerve of these people!), to care for the elderly properly.

Nursing homes take patients to the hospital for antibiotics (a) because that is the right thing to do, and (b) because they'd be sued if they didn't and someone died.

GTFO with this "racket" crap. If you need a professional service, you have to pay for it. Do you get paid for doing your job? Yes? You must be a racketeer then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's what is awful- I don't want to live with Alzheimers or dementia- but the government won't allow assisted suicide for these events (my understanding). I have made absolutely sure that we do not live in a state with a familial responsibility law and will advise my child when he's of age to choose a state without familial responsibility. That is next, folks. When long term care, savings, assets, and medicaid won't pay, they will come after your children for the money.

Why can't you just kill yourself? Why do you need a government to get involved?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who need long-term 24/7 care need it for 2 years or less (because they pass away) so save up enough for that.

That is a ridiculous assumption. It works out for you to believe this, but you have no idea what to expect.

Our relative require round the clock care for 5 years. The facility was $10,000 per month. They blew rhrough 2 generations of savings..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who need long-term 24/7 care need it for 2 years or less (because they pass away) so save up enough for that.

It’s usually 2-5 years and the burn rate is $15k -20k plus a month. This is just for the care add in medicine, food etc. This will only go up with inflation. It’s really expensive and complicated/stressful dealing with doctors, nursing, aids, insurance, management, etc at a time when your mental abilities are slipping. Add in all the fraud and con men, it just sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does “check out gracefully” mean?

Assisted suicide

Where is that legal in the US?

PP said she has enough saved for a flight to Zurich.

[Anonymous]

Zurich costs between 10-12K depending on the fluctuation of the Swiss franc, including cremation, so not really all that much. I include 2 business class tickets, top hotels etc. etc. so 30K is on the high end and it will cover a vacation for my travel companion afterwards before they fly back. Anybody can pre-save 30K ahead of time. I have seen too many people ruining their daughter's lives, it's always their daughter, and then blowing through an entire lifetime of assets for no purpose.

I find it morally abhorrent to dump on low-status women who end up working at care homes. It reeks of "massah and the slaves" to me. But by being proactive and agreeing with Emanuel Ezekiel, I am considered strange and the "head in the sand" people who end up costing society a fortune are completely normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Zurich costs between 10-12K depending on the fluctuation of the Swiss franc, including cremation, so not really all that much. I include 2 business class tickets, top hotels etc. etc. so 30K is on the high end and it will cover a vacation for my travel companion afterwards before they fly back. Anybody can pre-save 30K ahead of time. I have seen too many people ruining their daughter's lives, it's always their daughter, and then blowing through an entire lifetime of assets for no purpose.

I find it morally abhorrent to dump on low-status women who end up working at care homes. It reeks of "massah and the slaves" to me. But by being proactive and agreeing with Emanuel Ezekiel, I am considered strange and the "head in the sand" people who end up costing society a fortune are completely normal.

Anybody can save $30k? Check your privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to worry until I decided to be proactive. I have a "business class to Zurich" fund which is less than the cost of half a year in care. I take the SAGE test from the University of Ohio every 6 months. That way I can ensure I catch the "competent" window of Alzheimer's. At the first signs I will check out gracefully and not burden my family and lose a lifetime of assets. You have a pretty long window but most people do not want to know they have it, they are more concerned about losing their driver's license than losing their minds, so they just sink into oblivion.

I got the idea after reading this woman's blog. It's and account of the wastefulness of Alzheimer's, completely unvarnished. http://www.deadatnoon.com/

I'm with you![/quote


This 100 percent! DH and I have long term care policies and honestly I hope we never have to use them. My own dear 95 year old dad spent the last 15 months of his life under hospice care bedridden in my childhood home dining room. Nearly killed my mom - my worst nightmare. This is such a better plan.

These things do not cover much. Just do the numbers.