Does everyone walk out of an IEP meeting feeling like crap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We wanted access to a program (which exists an

OP, is this a GT/LD program?

Wait- where are there GT/ LD programs?

MCPS has one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Public schools really need to stick to the "least restrictive environment" component to IDEA.
As a related service provider, I can tell you that many families don't want their kid taken away from regular ed peers while others feel like more hours will result in more progress (not always in my experience).
I have worked for MCPS, DCPS and PGCPS and never have I experienced special ed teams trying to give minimal services.
Just last week we met about a kid who has scored in the low end of average for all areas but kept his services in place because we thought the progress was because of the supports but we also want him to be in the classroom as much as possible as his abilities increase, so it is a careful balance.
Trust me, educators want kids to learn.
If anything, we try to make sure kids who aren't progressing are placed in appropriate programs but those decisions are made at higher levels"

You obviously have never worked with twice exceptional students. Trust me, educators don't care if kids don't learn so long as they can score at minimally acceptable levels so that the school's numbers don't look bad. I have never once, in 8 years of advocating for my child, heard an educator say "oh, we can't have him not be challenged. We'll make sure that we do something about that." Never. I have heard plenty of "oh, he doesn't need that - he's working at grade level."

That's quite different than placing a child in a self-contained classroom (what OP wanted). For better or for worse, there was an unusually large gap between what OP wanted and what the school thought was appropriate. I can understand why she'd be second-guessing and I actually think it's appropriate. Mainstreaming is still preferable if possible.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been to 4 with my kid and the 5th was the first one I didn’t cry at.

[Anonymous]

I usually ended up sobbing in my car at the end of these meetings, which seemed designed to shame the mother in some way. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

We have gotten a lot of push back from MCPS and before that Infants and Toddlers saying wealthy, highly educated parents "buying" diagnoses for their GT/LD child and aggressively pushing program administrators into getting services their children do not need.

No one likes to talk about it on this board, it's not "PC" obviously given the deleted post, but is an issue. Each time our child got turned down, we appealed and a secondary supervisor apologized explained this problem to us and said that parents pushing "hard" has really created an unfortunate environment for other GT/LD kids.

[Anonymous]

Also, remember it was OP who brought up the fact she was feeling bad at getting something her child might not need on taxpayers' dime. She's the one who said she's feeling like crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to know what goes in to prepping the teachers to push back. We've only had one IEP meeting, but all through my child's 8 years we've heard all sorts of complaints from teachers about lack of focus, etc. All of the supporting documentation and professional observation going into the IEP meeting supported this, and many conversations with the teacher about the problem (initiated by her, because there was a problem) and we sat there during the IEP as she told everyone in the room my son had zero issues. My blood still boils thinking about it as we were told we need a neuropsych before they'd approve anything. What do the families who can't afford a neuropsych do?

What you don't realize is that if there is a suspected disability that may be interfering with the student's ability to access to curriculum, and THE SCHOOL says a neuropsych is needed to diagnose that disability... the school must pay for that evaluation.

You can refuse to agree with the eligibility determination document/IEP draft and tell the school you're taking them to due process for refusing to properly evaluate your child. Their tune will change real fast.

Of course, if the student is doing well academically, socially and emotionally, it'll be hard to prove your case in due process.

[Anonymous]

So I definitely felt a little guilty (maybe a lot?) when I got the first IEP. Because I knew that I had done it in part because I am trained to interpret laws and regulations, and make very strong arguments. And I also knew that I had done it in part to cope with a bad school that we had previously enrolled in. I also felt surprised at the amount of services that we got (10 hrs push in special ed plus good related services) and I felt sorta, kinda, like I was "that mom" pathologizing her normal child.

At the end of the day I actually felt confident about my argument and like it was the right thing to do, but I felt guilty that I got something via my personal skills, that other equally needy parents don't. This is one reason I try to chime in on this board to share wisdom!

Also as time has gone by, I feel like I was very smart and prescient to get a strong IEP. I truly believe it helped smooth the path for my DS, who is now really thriving academically and has not had behavioral issues. But, I do still have residual guilt, because I have no doubt that similarly needy kids would not have gotten the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I definitely felt a little guilty (maybe a lot?) when I got the first IEP. Because I knew that I had done it in part because I am trained to interpret laws and regulations, and make very strong arguments. And I also knew that I had done it in part to cope with a bad school that we had previously enrolled in. I also felt surprised at the amount of services that we got (10 hrs push in special ed plus good related services) and I felt sorta, kinda, like I was "that mom" pathologizing her normal child.

At the end of the day I actually felt confident about my argument and like it was the right thing to do, but I felt guilty that I got something via my personal skills, that other equally needy parents don't. This is one reason I try to chime in on this board to share wisdom!

Also as time has gone by, I feel like I was very smart and prescient to get a strong IEP. I truly believe it helped smooth the path for my DS, who is now really thriving academically and has not had behavioral issues. But, I do still have residual guilt, because I have no doubt that similarly needy kids would not have gotten the same.

Op again. I don’t know the exact lingo for the program he is in. He’s going to be mainstreamed in an inclusive classroom but have a sped teacher with him (and three other kids) for about 5-6 hours per day. I knew 2 hours was too little. I knew self-contained was not right either. This program was never told to me or offered to me. It was literally through hours of internet digging and then a call to the county sped coordinator to confirm it existed and there was space available. I feel like I “found out” about their special little program and they are upset with me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to know what goes in to prepping the teachers to push back. We've only had one IEP meeting, but all through my child's 8 years we've heard all sorts of complaints from teachers about lack of focus, etc. All of the supporting documentation and professional observation going into the IEP meeting supported this, and many conversations with the teacher about the problem (initiated by her, because there was a problem) and we sat there during the IEP as she told everyone in the room my son had zero issues. My blood still boils thinking about it as we were told we need a neuropsych before they'd approve anything. What do the families who can't afford a neuropsych do?

If they say it's needed, they have to pay for it. Even if you have coverage, you can't be required to use your own insurance to cover it.


(Fully realizing that what are supposed to be the rules are not necessarily the rules. . . . school professionals do NOT study IDEA regs the way parents do. What they know is what their school's policies and procedures are and work within that.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I definitely felt a little guilty (maybe a lot?) when I got the first IEP. Because I knew that I had done it in part because I am trained to interpret laws and regulations, and make very strong arguments. And I also knew that I had done it in part to cope with a bad school that we had previously enrolled in. I also felt surprised at the amount of services that we got (10 hrs push in special ed plus good related services) and I felt sorta, kinda, like I was "that mom" pathologizing her normal child.

At the end of the day I actually felt confident about my argument and like it was the right thing to do, but I felt guilty that I got something via my personal skills, that other equally needy parents don't. This is one reason I try to chime in on this board to share wisdom!

Also as time has gone by, I feel like I was very smart and prescient to get a strong IEP. I truly believe it helped smooth the path for my DS, who is now really thriving academically and has not had behavioral issues. But, I do still have residual guilt, because I have no doubt that similarly needy kids would not have gotten the same.

Op again. I don’t know the exact lingo for the program he is in. He’s going to be mainstreamed in an inclusive classroom but have a sped teacher with him (and three other kids) for about 5-6 hours per day. I knew 2 hours was too little. I knew self-contained was not right either. This program was never told to me or offered to me. It was literally through hours of internet digging and then a call to the county sped coordinator to confirm it existed and there was space available. I feel like I “found out” about their special little program and they are upset with me!

It sounds from your post like the result of your efforts was that 3 other kids also benefit from this service! If that is the case how about giving yourself a huge pat on the back for helping them as well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to know what goes in to prepping the teachers to push back. We've only had one IEP meeting, but all through my child's 8 years we've heard all sorts of complaints from teachers about lack of focus, etc. All of the supporting documentation and professional observation going into the IEP meeting supported this, and many conversations with the teacher about the problem (initiated by her, because there was a problem) and we sat there during the IEP as she told everyone in the room my son had zero issues. My blood still boils thinking about it as we were told we need a neuropsych before they'd approve anything. What do the families who can't afford a neuropsych do?

What you don't realize is that if there is a suspected disability that may be interfering with the student's ability to access to curriculum, and THE SCHOOL says a neuropsych is needed to diagnose that disability... the school must pay for that evaluation.

You can refuse to agree with the eligibility determination document/IEP draft and tell the school you're taking them to due process for refusing to properly evaluate your child. Their tune will change real fast.

Of course, if the student is doing well academically, socially and emotionally, it'll be hard to prove your case in due process.

Here's the thing, teachers and other professionals are human beings with the same flaws as other human beings. And one thing they will do on occasion is lie for their own reasons. The teacher who sent nasty notes about unfinished homework for weeks, when IEP meetings come, may say with a straight face that she saw no issues whatsoever. First, by raising issues about your child's problems, she is putting you, as a parent, in a lesser/defensive position. Then, when gaslighting you at the IEP meeting--which is what it is--she is doing exactly the same thing.


You don't necessarily have to use due process if they are failing to evaluate properly. You can use the IDEA complaint process for that (since evaluation is a fundamental IDEA requirement and schools HAVE to evaluate if a parent requests, starting with deciding what specific assessments are needed to perform that evaluation). Means you don't have to fork out lawyer money and also forces the school to be accountable to the state educational agency. Prior to doing a complaint, you ask the school to provide the neuropsych at their expense per their statement that it is required.


FWIW my son had 2 neuropsych evals at different stages of his education, and the same person did eval of my brother after a TBI and my niece who had epilepsy. I don't recall diagnosis being a result of any of those evals. They were more about what kinds of functioning were affected in what ways with recommendations as to how to respond to those issues. They may have (would have to look) referenced underlying diagnoses made by other providers but were not per se diagnostic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I definitely felt a little guilty (maybe a lot?) when I got the first IEP. Because I knew that I had done it in part because I am trained to interpret laws and regulations, and make very strong arguments. And I also knew that I had done it in part to cope with a bad school that we had previously enrolled in. I also felt surprised at the amount of services that we got (10 hrs push in special ed plus good related services) and I felt sorta, kinda, like I was "that mom" pathologizing her normal child.

At the end of the day I actually felt confident about my argument and like it was the right thing to do, but I felt guilty that I got something via my personal skills, that other equally needy parents don't. This is one reason I try to chime in on this board to share wisdom!

Also as time has gone by, I feel like I was very smart and prescient to get a strong IEP. I truly believe it helped smooth the path for my DS, who is now really thriving academically and has not had behavioral issues. But, I do still have residual guilt, because I have no doubt that similarly needy kids would not have gotten the same.

Op again. I don’t know the exact lingo for the program he is in. He’s going to be mainstreamed in an inclusive classroom but have a sped teacher with him (and three other kids) for about 5-6 hours per day. I knew 2 hours was too little. I knew self-contained was not right either. This program was never told to me or offered to me. It was literally through hours of internet digging and then a call to the county sped coordinator to confirm it existed and there was space available. I feel like I “found out” about their special little program and they are upset with me!

It sounds from your post like the result of your efforts was that 3 other kids also benefit from this service! If that is the case how about giving yourself a huge pat on the back for helping them as well!

Ah nope. He’s joining three other kids who are in the caseload!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I definitely felt a little guilty (maybe a lot?) when I got the first IEP. Because I knew that I had done it in part because I am trained to interpret laws and regulations, and make very strong arguments. And I also knew that I had done it in part to cope with a bad school that we had previously enrolled in. I also felt surprised at the amount of services that we got (10 hrs push in special ed plus good related services) and I felt sorta, kinda, like I was "that mom" pathologizing her normal child.

At the end of the day I actually felt confident about my argument and like it was the right thing to do, but I felt guilty that I got something via my personal skills, that other equally needy parents don't. This is one reason I try to chime in on this board to share wisdom!

Also as time has gone by, I feel like I was very smart and prescient to get a strong IEP. I truly believe it helped smooth the path for my DS, who is now really thriving academically and has not had behavioral issues. But, I do still have residual guilt, because I have no doubt that similarly needy kids would not have gotten the same.

Op again. I don’t know the exact lingo for the program he is in. He’s going to be mainstreamed in an inclusive classroom but have a sped teacher with him (and three other kids) for about 5-6 hours per day. I knew 2 hours was too little. I knew self-contained was not right either. This program was never told to me or offered to me. It was literally through hours of internet digging and then a call to the county sped coordinator to confirm it existed and there was space available. I feel like I “found out” about their special little program and they are upset with me!

Your experience about the secretive nature of programs is very common, and it has happened to me and many other parents I know. It is one of the very worst aspects of MCPS, and it is one of the easiest things MCPS could change -- a public list every year of every single program, with a description of the program, age range, etc. as well MCPS ought to put out a public list of approved private placement schools, if necessary lumping them into 5 or 10 year groups so as to preserve privacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to know what goes in to prepping the teachers to push back. We've only had one IEP meeting, but all through my child's 8 years we've heard all sorts of complaints from teachers about lack of focus, etc. All of the supporting documentation and professional observation going into the IEP meeting supported this, and many conversations with the teacher about the problem (initiated by her, because there was a problem) and we sat there during the IEP as she told everyone in the room my son had zero issues. My blood still boils thinking about it as we were told we need a neuropsych before they'd approve anything. What do the families who can't afford a neuropsych do?

What you don't realize is that if there is a suspected disability that may be interfering with the student's ability to access to curriculum, and THE SCHOOL says a neuropsych is needed to diagnose that disability... the school must pay for that evaluation.

You can refuse to agree with the eligibility determination document/IEP draft and tell the school you're taking them to due process for refusing to properly evaluate your child. Their tune will change real fast.

Of course, if the student is doing well academically, socially and emotionally, it'll be hard to prove your case in due process.

I should clarify that the school said DC didn't have any issues whatsoever and pointed to his test scores, which are very high. His teacher, who had been bringing issues to our attention, sending work home every night because he seemed incapable of doing work in a classroom setting, then argued that he was completely normal. The supporting paperwork from his observation did not support that conclusion at all. Other teachers on the team had encouraged us to seek accommodations, so we were baffled and embarrassed being told it was all in our heads. So, the school said we needed to pursue things privately if we wanted any kind of accommodation and then they handed me some recommended neuropsych providers. They were careful not to say DC needed the neuropsych, just said if we disagreed with their assessment we had to prove it with a medical report. It makes me angry because many families can't afford that, and the wait for an appointment is almost a year.